I am not surprised that the women are being more =
vocal than
the men. I work
for a Head Start program in Oregon. The Bush
administration has issued
several initiatives to the Head Start community, one =
of them
being to
promote the role of fathers interacting with their =
young
children. We
recently invited the dads/father figures in our =
program (we
serve over 700
families) to participate in a couple of events with =
their
child. They had
to pre-register through me to attend. 90% of =
the
registration calls came
from a woman, and feedback (complaints) following the =
event
was primarily
from women, even though they had not even =
attended!
Nancy Maniago
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C314A7.3308BB10--
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 15:33:22 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:33:22 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] White Men Challenging (from Harry Brod)
Message-ID: <000401c31577$29eaa180$1c76510c@jimmy88>
Since the discussion has turned toward the topic of white male privilege =
I
want to inform people of the resource of a new book just out last month =
that
deals with white men working against such privileges, "White Men =
Challenging
Racism: 35 Personal Stories" by Cooper Thompson, Emmett Schaefer and =
Harry
Brod, from Duke University Press. Since I'm the third of the =
co-authors,
not only in the sense of third listed but also in the sense that I want =
to
acknowledge that my co-authors did much more of the work on the book =
than I
did, I want to add that the only reason I feel OK about promoting my own
book here is that all authors' royalties go directly to fund anti-racist
work (through RESIST in Boston, which funds progressive grass roots =
social
change projects), and my intention is really to promote the anti-racist =
work
of the men in the book, not my own. Anyway, it's a collection of the
inspiring (if I do say so myself) stories of contemporary white male
anti-racist activists, complete with their struggles and shortcomings as
well as their strategies and successes, told in their own words, most of
them not known outside their local communities.
Harry Brod
University of Northern Iowa
harry.brod@uni.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 15:44:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:44:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] mixed-gender vs. same-gender groups (from Brook Friedman)
Message-ID: <000601c31578$b8f26ce0$1c76510c@jimmy88>
In response to the advantages and disadvantages of talking about male
violence in mixed-gender vs. same-gender groups. We are a peer education =
and
peer support project of young men and young women called the =
Relationship
Violence- No Way! project in Adelaide, Australia. We have lots of =
experience
of running single sex workshops in secondary schools about
family/domestic/relationship violence prevention as well as sexual =
assault
prevention over the past six years and have developed associated =
workshop
formats. The presenters of the workshops are nearly all young men and =
young
women who have been subjected to such violence and want to take a stand
against it.=20
We have used Single Sex Groups for young women and young men for the
following reasons.
Young women can have the opportunity to an environment that is free
from the possibility of being targets of intimidation and harassment =
from
young men. Single-sex groups may support young women to:
. understand how gender involves complex systems of relationships that
despite gradual change, assign greater power and status in maleness and
lesser power and status in femaleness;
. move towards implementing strategies of resistance related to their
right to be in an environment free from gender related abusive =
behaviour.
=09
Young men may benefit in an environment where they are able to
explore the issues of gender, self-care and non-abusive behaviour away =
from
young women. This may give them more opportunity to examine:
=09
. a social perspective of behaviour without as much need to perform
for their female peers according to narrow and rigid versions of
masculinity;
. improving young men's health and well being;
. male to male relations including abusive/violent behaviour;
. developing ways of relating that resist aspects of gender identity
that hurt themselves and disrespect the rights of others.=20
Following such explorations we have supported schools examining violence =
in
heterosexual relationships in mixed sex groups.
Brook Friedman
Relationship Violence- No Way! Project
Adelaide South Australia
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 15:54:11 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:54:11 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Strategies for training/presentations (from Joan Zorza)
Message-ID: <000901c3157a$1224a250$1c76510c@jimmy88>
Male-only groups were found the most effective
in "A Meta-Analysis of Rape Education Programs"
by Leanne R. Brecklin and David R. Ford, 16(3) Violence
and Victims 303-321 (2001). It looked at 45 studies,
both published and unpublished, dated between 1983 and 1998
that had examined the effectiveness of rape-prevention
programs on college campuses. The authors found that
attitude change was not significantly affected by either the
modality or the duration of the program(s). Most of the
programs consisted of only one session, although some of the
college courses involved several sessions. The authors
did not evaluate female-only groups because such programs
were so few. The result was clear in showing that mixed-gender
groups were far less effective than the male-only ones.
Interestingly, the attitude change effects were much grater
(and in the direction desired) for male-only groups, and this
effect was far greater than for programs consisting of many
sessions that were of mixed gender groups.
Hope that helps, although the study only looked at programs
in college. It has also been my impression that men become
more defensive and more distracted in mixed-gender discussions,
in high schools as well as colleges.
Best, Joan Zorza
Editor, Domestic Violence Report & Sexual Assault Report
3097 Ordway St., NW
Washington, DC 20008-3255
email: joan@zorza.net
website: www.zorza.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 16:31:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:31:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] More discussion of identity and language (From Dani Meier)
Message-ID: <000b01c3157f$3c5be0b0$1c76510c@jimmy88>
Hey Folks,
Perhaps it's contradictory as a co-founder of a group called Real MEN =
(Men
Embracing Non-Violence) to suggest that I reject any fixed notion of =
what
defines being a man (much less a "real man"). I think it's=20
naive, however, to not recognize that social=20
messages/pressures/media/etc. absolutely DO create a fairly narrow
definition of what an acceptable man looks like and these are huge and =
ugly
constraints on growing up male.=20
We don't have to respond with a similarly narrow identity but can reject =
the
stereotyped male identity to now include a broad sweep of things, an =
ideal
of being a good man to which boys and men can aspire. Something=20
like a good man is loving, open, gentle, strong, kind, and compassionate
(others?). I'd like to believe this broad sweep is inclusive and
multicultural.=20
I think one thing to keep in mind, by the way, as we engage in this
discussion of a big tent is that any attempt to engage the broadest =
possible
population of silent bystanders will be weakened if the discussion gets =
too
academic or abstract. I love this kind of dialogue=20
and believe it's critical but have also seen a real division between
academics and activists due to poor communication. That's one of my
problems with the "Tough Guise" video is that it's language often feels=20
very academic to me and while I personally enjoy listening to Katz'
analysis, it's got too much of him lecturing in the video. The kids I =
work
with (high school age) lose interest in lectures reeeeeeeal fast. =20
And as per the thrust of our Real MEN's Father's Day campaign, one of =
the
strategies for fighting and eliminating DV, is to "START YOUNG" in=20
teaching men as boys to grow up to be good men.
Dani Meier, PhD, ACSW
meier@jps.k12.mi.us
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 16:43:34 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Men as discussion group bystanders (from Ruben Reyes)
Message-ID: <000d01c31580$f98954f0$1c76510c@jimmy88>
Hallo, this is in response to Barbara Lambert. My name is Ruben Reyes. I =
am
a member of the Association of Men against Violence in Nicaragua, we =
work
with men addressing gender-based violence. For us this is not only about
preaching to others, but we also are committed to live the way we =
preach. We
know it=B4s not an easy thing to do, that it is a da-to-day struggle. =
Myself,
I=B4ve never physically hurt a woman in my life, but I=B4ve seen it =
happen in
my own family. The fact that I was a witness of my father striking my =
mother
with a bell when I was a boy is one of the reasons I got involved in =
this
kind of work, in the first place. I also have a younger brother who did =
the
same thing with his partner, and I was one of the key people who helped =
him
take responsibility for his actions and to find a way out. And I know =
that
neither my dad, nor my brother are bad people, that they were also =
feeling
sad, shameful and angry, and that they have learned that as men they =
could
only express those feelings in a violent way, or that a man has the =
right to
discipline his woman when she had done something which makes him feel =
sad,
hurt or angry. We have also had members of our Association who have been
violent to their wives or partners, and each time we all try to help =
them
take responsibility for what they do. Myself again, I sexually harassed
girls a few times when I was a teenager, it was part of my growing up as =
a
man, part of the things that boys were supposed to do, and now I know =
how
harmful that is for the girls, and now that have a little daughter, I
certainly don=B4t want things like that happening to her. So I=B4m =
committed not
to do those things again, and I am also involved in doing educational
activities with young men, so that they have the opportunity to learn =
other
ways to be men. In the Association of Men, we have found out that other =
men
have had similar experiences to ours and that they also are willing to
commit themselves not to be violent, and that there are many other men =
who
are also willing to take a stance against violence because they don=B4t =
want
their own daughters, or sisters, or friends, to go through such violent
experiences, so this is one of their main motivations to get involved. =
These
are the men we try to reach every time we do our campaigns and workshops
against gender-based violence. Still, I cant say we are a whole bunch, =
the
most men we have put together in a national meeting of activists is 280.
Also, sometimes we do get tired and feel like giving up, but there's =
always
someone who reminds us that we have an opportunity to make things better =
for
our own children, so we have managed to find the way to keep going so =
far.
Ruben
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 21:06:56 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:06:56 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] big tent/small tent (from Tony Switzer)
Message-ID: <000601c315a5$cb12cd20$7c58510c@jimmy88>
Sorry I have to be brief as I only have several minutes available in the
next few days.
In the Katz paper which this first seminar centers on he talks of
building a 'big tent' under which many initiatives and organizations can
gather to work against men's violence. This is a terrific way to
conceive of the task at hand. It makes clear that there are many jobs
to do and room for lots of useful projects (even if we don't agree with
every detail of every project).
Katz starts his paper this way, "It is time we tried something new.
Men's violence.....has persisted at pandemic rates for far too long."
Yes. The big tent idea is great. I want to move in that direction.
But, let's spend a little time reflecting on the small tent approach of
the past.
I would like to ask Jackson and all of us to specify a few of the ideas
and approaches that have not worked in the years and decades that we
have just come out of.
Informal case studies or anecdotes of failed or less than successful
efforts to recruit/involve/mobilize men might be in order.
I don't want to derail us into prolonged discussion of what we have done
wrong, but to define the small tent as we move to the big tent could be
helpful.
Tony Switzer
Men's Nonviolence Project
Texas Council on Family Violence
Austin, Texas, USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 21:24:47 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:24:47 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Thoughts on the "big tent" discussion to date (from Jackson Katz)
Message-ID: <000c01c315a8$42bac010$7c58510c@jimmy88>
Hello everyone.
I appreciate all of your postings. I think this is a tremendously
interesting and useful forum to exchange ideas and connect across the
country.and the world!=20
My biggest challenge is deciding what specific posts and streams I can
respond to. So many people have raised important issues related to the =
big
tent approach; I would love to address all of them directly. At this =
point
I'd like to try to hone in on some key points/questions and then make =
some
more general observations about the discourse to date.
The first point is about bystanders. Clearly the brief discussion about
bystanders in the big tent paper piqued several people's interest. I =
think
I need to clarify something. The focus on men as bystanders in no way
absolves individual men of our responsibility for our own sexist =
attitudes
or behaviors. Quite the contrary. The bystander model is a way to get =
men
(and women) thinking critically about our own complicity -- and
participation -- in sexism (or racism, heterosexism, etc.) It just does =
it
from a slightly different angle than full frontal challenge.
Also, it is critical to understand that the bystander approach is a
pedagogical and political strategy to bring more men into the =
conversation.
Focusing on men as bystanders is a much more inclusive approach than the
traditional way men have been framed in discussions of gender violence
prevention - as either perpetrators or potential perpetrators. Framing =
men
as perps not only provokes a defensive reaction in many men. It also =
allows
men who do not see themselves as perpetrators - which is to say the
overwhelming majority of men -- to distance themselves from the entire
discussion. (e.g. "I'm a good guy. I don't rape or assault women. =
These
aren't my problems.")
I first began to use the bystander approach systematically in 1992 or so
when my colleagues and I created the MVP Program at Northeastern
University's Center for the Study of Sport in Society. The reason why I
conceived of MVP was because I was looking for a way to involve more =
men in
rape and battering prevention - especially men from the dominant culture =
who
have historically - with exceptions - been resistant to engaging with =
these
issues in a positive, proactive way. The question was then, and still =
is
now: how do we reach more men? How do we expand the number of men doing
this work? How do we get men in power to use that power in the service =
of
massive cultural transformation around gender violence issues? How do =
we
establish gender violence prevention as a leadership issue for men? How =
do
we institutionalize this work, so success or failure isn't dependent on =
a
handful of charismatic educators or activists?
If people are interested, I wrote a case study about the MVP Model that =
will
be part of the fourth and final paper in this series, about working in =
and
with schools. =20
On the discussion about racism, sexism, heterosexism, etc: I'm very =
happy
this is part of our discussion. Of course we need always to look at all
forms of power and privilege - and subordination and oppression - as
intimately linked. Those of us who have various sorts of privileges =
always
have to challenge ourselves to make those connections whenever possible.
(As a straight white man with educational and economic resources, I'm
constantly wondering whether I'm doing enough in this regard.) One of =
the
difficult aspects of working with men around sexism is the fact that =
"men"
is not a monolithic construct, and that there are critical power,
experiential and other differences between and among men that can impact =
the
possibility of us doing collective work *as men* against gender =
violence.
Quite frankly, this is one aspect of the big tent concept that needs =
much
more attention and discussion going forward. =20
I was going to comment on one aspect of the MVP Model that deals with
single-sex versus mixed-gender education/workshops in gender violence
prevention, but this morning I read the post from Brook Friedman in
Adelaide, Australia who beautifully articulated many of the points I =
would
have made. I would also suggest that anyone who is interested in these
questions would be well advised to look into some of Alan Berkowitz's =
work.
Alan has brilliantly laid out the case for all-male settings for gender
violence prevention work. (Go to www.alanberkowitz.com)=20
And now a more general observation about the discourse. When I was first
asked to write the big tent paper, I had a series of conversations with =
Dean
Peacock and James Lang about the focus of the paper and how it fit into =
the
larger series. In presenting the first paper, we wanted to lay out some =
of
the general themes of the Building Partners Initiative and provide a
foundation for subsequent discussions. The big tent idea is a Big =
Idea in
the sense that it's an attempt to offer an overarching framework within
which to think about how to expand both the number of men *and* the =
number
of powerful institutions that actively take on gender violence =
prevention. =20
Many of the posts to date have focused on one or another specific =
aspects of
working with individual men or boys, in classroom or other educational
settings, or interpersonally. These are all important parts of the =
larger
picture. But I would hope that we can engage in some dialogue about the
broader political and institutional challenges raised by the big tent
approach. If you have not done so, please take the time over the =
weekend to
review the case studies and the overview paper found on the project =
website:
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussion1.php
We would like to focus on these papers for next week's discussion.=20
One of my goals in writing this paper was to provide a stepping off =
point to
have a discussion about cultural transformations that are possible if we =
can
engage more men under the big tent. But it was also to look at the =
numerous
pitfalls of that expansion. I know from my own work in the sports =
culture,
the United States Marine Corps, and other traditionally male-dominated
institutions that enormously positives things can happen if we think
strategically and inclusively and act that way. But I am also well =
aware
that bringing in new allies - on an institutional level - requires due
diligence and ongoing conversations about accountability, motives,
ideological inconsistencies, possible contradictions, etc.
I look forward to continuing this part of the discussion in the coming =
days.
Jackson Katz
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 22:08:53 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:08:53 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] On the role of men (from Gillian Greensite)
Message-ID: <001201c315ae$6a333720$7c58510c@jimmy88>
Many thanks to those who organized this wonderful forum for
exchanging ideas, strategies and tactics for ending gendered
violence. It is uplifting to hear of such good work from within the
US and other parts of the world. The big tent approach is an
exciting next phase in our work. The idea is not new. It has been the
kernel of all my speeches at Take Back the Night Marches for the past
couple of decades, urging activists on other issues to incorporate
violence against women into their agenda and encouraging activists
in the anti-rape movement to make connections with other issues. Now
it seems, we have the potential to make this idea a reality. I
especially appreciated the specifics on bringing violence against
women into union organizing, an arena with which I am familiar.
A few thoughts on the questions regarding males educating males;
holding men accountable; addressing "bystander " sexism etc. I'd like
to echo the comments from Chuck Derry on this one. We have to
simultaneously appeal to men's stake in combatting violence against
women and address their collusion in sexist behavior. We tackle this
on an ongoing basis in our mixed gender peer education program at
UCSC. Also, when giving a presentation and after reassuring those
present that the good news is that most men don't rape, I give
examples of the myriad ways both males and females construct the web
of sexism that allows rape to flourish.
Unless we continuously confront this contradiction, we will allow
sexist male behavior to mulch and multiply under a blanket of
feel-good appeals to male magnanimity. For example, I found Michael
Kaufman's words unsettling in his Case Study article when he wrote,
"Men and boys listen to other men and boys more than they do to the
anger and pleas of a woman or to an impersonal media voice. That's
why first and foremost men must participate actively in anti-violence
efforts and in leading strategies to reach other men".
Sure! And I think men and boys would probably listen to a chimpanzee
with an anti-rape sign more that they would to the anger and pleas of
a man. With all due respect to Michael, look at the assumptions
underlying his statements. Women as educators are reduced to
communicating with "anger and pleas". As a seasoned educator, I use
neither anger nor pleas and am quite effective in reaching males.
From 23 years experience in rape prevention education, and having
seen quite a few male educators, I reject the notion that only males
can reach males. Some males are good, some use guilt-trips too much
and some reinforce "men as victims" way too heavily. I even observe
some reinforcing stereotyped attitudes of women. They are as good and
as bad as are women educators. That doesn't mean there are no
occasions when a male will have an easier time reaching males and
should be the logical choice if he is a good educator. It is the
elevating of this "only men can reach men" to a truism that I
reject. The reason that it is critical that men engage in this work
is not because men are inherently better at reaching other males but
because it makes sense for all the many reasons that have already
been articulated in this forum.
Statements such as Michael's are an example of why some women have
trouble fully embracing male involvement in the anti-rape movement
without the necessary structures in place to address male sexism
within the movement itself.
Thanks for the opportunity to share some thoughts,
Gillian Greensite
Director
UCSC Rape Prevention Education
1156 High St.
Santa Cruz, CA 95064
Email: g_g@cats.ucsc.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 8 22:23:04 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:23:04 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Men as discussion group bystanders (from Larry Grudt)
Message-ID: <002501c315b0$65687dc0$7c58510c@jimmy88>
With respect to what are men doing in their personal
and professional lives...
I am part of a group in Jackson ,MI "real M.E.N.(Men
Embracing Non-violence) project". This group of about
10 people (mostly men), isn't really off the ground as
of yet. We have yet to establish what we can do in our
community and then how to do it, how to involve more
men from a greater background of people and how to
best reach the desired community. Our goal is in
someway to educate prevention and maybe outreach into
schools, and other community groups, but that too may
change with time. It is important for us to find
strong working models to draw from. Any help there
would be greatly appreciated.
Personally, I have found that I am in a strong group
of male friends that refuse to condone abusive talk
and behavior within the group. But outside the group
is another thing. That would be situational. If
outside the group terms like "bitch" or "fag" are used
, again I think that would depend on the situation. If
those terms are used in conversation then my reaction
would be to not give support to the person as a
person. Confront them as to why they would choose such
a term. If the term would be hurled at someone, it's
best to get that person out of that situation. Again,
not disrespecting the subject of the dialogue but the
contents.
Case in point: When one of the local music teachers
told the kids in band that they were playing "like
girls", I found that this was normal wordage for this
guy. I confronted the teacher if he thought that girls
were less than boys. He said "NO" And then I told him
that every time he said that, that was what he was
teaching those students. It wasn't their quality of
play that I was concerned with, but how the teacher
exhibited his assessment of their efforts. I asked the
principal if this were approved behavior. Actions on
the teacher were made and a verbal apology was given
to the students of the class by the teacher. Then I
removed my daughter from his class.
I think it is very easy for men to not confront other
men. For a very good reason. It's the question, will
this confrontation become escalated? To what degree.
These are things that go through many men's minds. The
more secure a man feels, the probability that an
aggressor will be confronted goes up. What we are
asking is that one person stand up to (usually, in
some form) accepted social behaviors. That can be
threatening. This is why I think many men choose to
not say anything, even if they dislike what may have
gone on. For fear of losing some degree of safety. As
men know, men can be violent. To put one's self into
that kind of situation can be scary.
Larry Grudt
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 13:59:25 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 09:59:25 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] 'Big Tent' Discussion (from Penny Walls-Brooks)
Message-ID: <3EBBB43D.1010500@mencanstoprape.org>
Hi, all! What a great discussion. Just want to add that while the
focus of this stream of thought is primarily upon men, when I'm thinking
of the 'big tent,' I'm also including women. We must not forget that a
lot of women tend not to think of themselves as a part of the 'sexual
violence' issue. I think many 'bystander' concepts can apply equally
well to women as well as men. Plus, women as well as men raise our
young men, so maybe thoughts on a 'dual-gendered' approach should be
considered. I'm fairly new to this particular field of victim services,
so I'm not sure if anyone has attempted to create materials that speak
to both genders simultaneously...does anyone know? Any thoughts?
Penny Walls-Brooks
Executive Director, MO Coalition Against Sexual Assault
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 14:08:12 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:08:12 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More discussion of identity and language from Dani Meier (from Pat Armstrong)
Message-ID: <3EBBB64C.5090506@mencanstoprape.org>
Re: comment by: Dani Meier, PhD, ACSW
"And as per the thrust of our Real MEN's Father's Day campaign, one of
the strategies for fighting and eliminating DV, is to "START YOUNG" in
teaching men as boys to grow up to be good men."
YES!!! Plus we need to acknowledge the role mothers-not just fathers or
professionals (teachers, role models, etc.)- play in that teaching! And,
on the subject of education, why are technical schools no longer an
honorable, viable option for those not desiring a college education? If
we are to help end abuse and violence, we must address the underlying
causes, such as poverty. Technical schools in the past were sponsored by
employers and jobs were waiting when the student graduated. Hope is a
powerful deterrent to an unhealthy, destructive lifestyle.
Pat Armstrong
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 14:19:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Apologies to Helen Moffett and to the rest of the list
Message-ID: <3EBBB8F2.7040809@mencanstoprape.org>
Good day/evening to you all,
This is David Rider, the moderator for today's community forum. After a
great week of discussion, moderated by James Lang, I am filling in for
today's session. And, for me at least, there is a steep technical
learning curve. I thought I had it all figured out this morning, was
smoothly posting your emails to the list, and then wanted to email Helen
Moffett's message to my account so I could forward it to James.
Unfortunately, I hit the wrong button, and it went out to the entire list.
To Helen, and to everyone else, please accept my apologies. And, as we
are trying to keep this space safe and respectful, I ask that you
discard the original email from Helen that includes her email address,
and I will send it out again through the appropriate channels.
I look forward to the rest of what has been an engaging discussion, and
to what should be a technical error-free day!
In Strength,
David
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 14:36:20 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:36:20 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Case Study V. Faith-based Communities (from Carrie Hunter)
Message-ID: <3EBBBCE4.2020502@mencanstoprape.org>
Marie Fortune writes that we are working against centuries of beliefs
and attitudes that support men's violence against women. She states
that faith-based organizations can be a critical ally. Currently, I
live and work in a large southern city in which there is a theological
seminary affiliated with a large denomination which, a few years ago,
reaffirmed and adopted a resolution calling for the subordination of
women to men. There is, also, a seminary affiliated with another large
denomination which supports women in roles of leadership in ministry. I
am a therapist and community educator working in an organization that
provides services to victims/survivors of domestic violence and
rape/sexual assault. I often provide workshops for clergy,
congregations, and lay leaders...equipping them with tools and ideas for
responding to violence against women. Of course doctrine/theology comes
up in these workshops; as issues/concerns of survivors, as tactics used
by those who perpetrate abuse, and as responses by religious leaders to
those seeking help.
Consider this: St. John Chrystostom, fourth-century preacher and
scholar argues that, "...If the more important, most beneficial concerns
were turned over to the woman, she would go quite mad. Therefore, God
did not apportion both duties to one sex...Nor did God assign both to be
equal in every way...But taking precautions at one and the same time for
peace and for decency, God maintained the order of each sex by dividing
the business of human life into two parts and assigned the more
necessary and beneficial aspects to the man and the less important,
inferior matters to the woman. God's plan was extremely desirable for
us...so that a woman would not rebel against the husband due to the
inferiority of her service." Most people I've presented this quote to
have never heard of Chrystostom and actually get a chuckle out of this.
I'm afraid, though, that this quote and others like it have been used by
groups and individuals to support their entitlement and to devalue women.
I have found many individuals affiliated with faith-based
organizations to be allies. I have also found suspicion and fear among
domestic violence workers and victims/survivors when faith-based
organizations offer volunteer services or funding. I have also noticed
that it is primarily women who choose to attend workshops I have given
for faith-based organizations. These attendees are usually lay leaders,
occasionally they are pastors. Few male pastors and lay leaders choose
to attend. I have several guesses about this self-selection: Male
leaders do not think violence against women is present in their
congregations, male leaders think this is a women's issue, male leaders
do not think it is in the prevue of religious leadership to address this
issue, male leaders are afraid they will get bashed and yelled at if the
attend. I welcome responses to these guesses and ideas about how to
increase male attendance at workshops.
Carrie A. Hunter, LMFT, M.Div., therapist, Interfaith Outreach
Coordinator, chunterQcwfempower.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 14:40:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:40:30 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] The Big Tent (from Merri Sullivan)
Message-ID: <3EBBBDDE.40403@mencanstoprape.org>
As someone who has worked for years doing direct services to woman
victims of male violence, I certainly am aware of the need for the Big
Tent. We need to get at the roots at the same time we continue to hack
at the overgrowth.Women have been applying band-aids for years while
fighting for recognition that there even is a problem, and for funding.
Yes men need to take a lesson from anti-racist work and lose their
defensivness. So much energy has been spent on what to call male
violence against women; battered women, wife abuse, spousal abuse,
domestic violence, family violence, to not offend or blame. What about
our county's leadership? What does our actions on Iraq say about the use
of violence?Is poverty an act of violence?Does the criminal justice
system protect us from or breed violence?Lets see men and women working
cooperatively on the elimination of violence. Let's see this in our
media, in our schools, our health care system, our social services, in
our government, and on our streets. Let's see a media campaign and a
social movement toward change. Let's enlist men and women from the
grassroots to the famous and influencial to participate.
Merri Sullivan
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 17:27:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] The Big Tent must engage and empower all men to take responsibility (from Danny Blay)
Message-ID: <3EBBE4E4.5070302@mencanstoprape.org>
The Big Tent must engage and empower all men to take responsibility
The Big Tent Approach to ending men's violence must focus on engaging
and empowering men to stand up and be accountable. That does not
necessarily mean only supporting men who have been violent to take
responsibility for their behaviour, as opposed to blaming someone or
something else, but encouraging the 'bystanders' to become actively
involved in the process.
No To Violence Male Family Violence Prevention Association (NTV) in
Victoria, Australia, is primarily concerned with empowering men at a
community level to take responsibility for their own violent and abusive
behaviour and engage in a process of change, and to strive for the
safety of women and children.
It is vital that structures exist for men to be engaged, and for their
behaviour to be the focus of attention. Victoria's men's behaviour
change programs provide concrete strategies and skills to divert men
from engaging in such behaviour, replacing it with responses that are
more appropriate, and that do not endanger the safety of women and
children, and other men. All men's behaviour change programs funded by
the Department of Human Services must adhere to 'Stopping Men's Violence
In The Family: A Manual for Running Men's Groups', developed and
published by NTV. This goes some way in developing a 'Big Tent
Approach', in that programs and access to services for men have common
objectives and methods in instigating change, and a central point for
collaboration, research and development.
A successful strategy in not only encouraging men who have used violence
to reach out and seek support to change, but also to involve
'bystanders' in the process is the Men's Referral Service. The Men's
Referral Service, the precursor to the Men's Line of Ramsey and Hennepin
County in the US (Case Study II, D Gault) is the only male family
violence telephone counselling, information and referral service of its
kind in Australia. The key element of its unique work is its provision
of opportunities and training for ordinary men in the community to
become actively involved in working to prevent male family violence as
volunteer male family violence telephone counsellors, and to advocate
for social change in this context. Since 1993 MRS Telephone Counsellors
have been able to directly respond to over 18,000 callers and is now
averaging over 3,000 calls per year.
The Big Tent response is also somewhat under way in Victoria through the
Statewide Steering Committee to Reduce Family Violence. All significant
organisations within the sector, including women's and family violence
services, courts, police and government, are currently in the process of
developing a statewide, overarching framework and integrated response to
family violence, with a strong emphasis on prevention.
Danny Blay
Manager
No To Violence
The Male Family Violence Prevention Association
(Incorporating the Men's Referral Service)
PO Box 417
Richmond VIC 3121
T 61 3 9428 3536
F 61 3 9428 7513
M 0417 690 311
www.ntv.net.au
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 17:37:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 13:37:00 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Thoughts on hoisting a "Big Tent" (from Shailushi Baxi)
Message-ID: <3EBBE73C.6060301@mencanstoprape.org>
I was excited to see a Jackson Katz' thoughts on the discussion thus
far--because it had also struck me that the individual stream of
conversation, while important and engaging, also neglect to address the
core of the paper-- what it means to truly take on a comprehensive
approach. I think that thinking about comprehensive, multifaceted, and
multidisciplinary approaches to ending violence, against both men and
women, is hard to do. But those approaches can also be tremendously
effective.
Big tent approaches, however, face one major challenge--collaboration.
They require individuals from different groups and disciplines to come
together under a common goal, which supersedes individuals goals and
agendas. This can be hard to do under normal circumstances, when money
and other resources are tight. But it is even harder now, which money
and other resources seem to be dwindling but the problems are growing
larger before our eyes. The fundamental issue, I think, in dealing with
the political challenges is addressing the issue of TURF-- who owns
what. Turf is a lot more than money-- it also encompasses legitimacy,
credibility, and other forms of intangible power.
The question I pose, then, is how do you get groups who have
traditionally worked in competition with each other, to come together
under a common agenda?
Related to this question is the issue of getting groups that have worked
on *different* forms of violence to work together-- a "super-big tent"
approach, if you will. Those who work with victims, and perpetrators,
of violence know that different forms of violence are interconnected--
the same internal state may manifest itself in different ways.
Therefore, it is vital to bring in not just all the group concerned
about violence against women and/or children. But what about the group
concerned about youth violence or gang violence? What about the groups
concerned about alcohol and drug use or literacy?
The final issue that arises for me is: how do we get past individual and
educational approaches to think about policy? Reviewing the case
studies, I realized that many of them focused on working with
individuals or groups of individuals to make change happen "one person
at a time." While such activities are surely important, I'm more
interesting in thinking about what can be done at both the
organizational level and the policy level to help *prevent* violence
against women from ever happening in the first place.
The work done by Shifting the Focus, which is highlighted in the last
case study and of which I was deeply involved, began to make some small
but significant changes in state government policy. The adoption of a
set of Prevention Principles, for example, was a major marker in
bringing traditionally different disciplines to a shared understanding
about what it takes to really do violence prevention. This is a start,
I think, in thinking more globally about what it takes to do violence
prevention. But the institutional challenges of working within state
government were not insignificant. I don't doubt that each organization
or institution that we bring into the tent causes its own disruption to
the order of things.
-Shailushi Baxi
The Prevention Institute
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 9 20:44:17 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:44:17 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Managing the Pemv-net emails (from the Moderators)
Message-ID: <000d01c3166b$c341d890$bb77510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMV-net participants,=20
Thank you for making the first week of this discussion series rich and
useful. We are looking forward to continuing the discussion next week. =
=20
MANAGING PEMV-NET EMAIL
If you feel the volume of emails sent over PEMV-net is too many for you =
to
manage, we have two suggestions:=20
1) Choose to receive DAILY DIGESTS (one email that consolidates all the
emails for one day).
There is a PEMV-net administrative web site to make it easy for you to
control the options for your participation - to receive daily digests, =
to
suspend postings while you are away for long periods of time, or to
unsubscribe from PEMV-net.=20
http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/pemv-net
Just go to the bottom of this web page, enter your email address in the =
box
where is says "Edit Options" and follow the simple instructions.=20
2) You can also set up a discrete email folder for PEMV-net emails in =
your
email program, and create a rule to send all PEMV-net emails to that =
folder.
This will keep the discussion emails consolidated in one place and out =
of
your email inbox. For example, in Mail, Outlook, Outlook Express, =
Yahoo,
Hotmail, AOL or many other email programs, you can create a new email =
folder
under "File". If you pull down the "File" menu, go to "New" and then
"Folder". Name the folder PEMV-net. =20
Next, you can create a new email rule under "Tools". The pull down menu =
for
tools should have "Rules", "Email Rules" or "Rules Wizard". Open up =
this
option and choose to send all messages with [Pemv-net] in the subject =
line
to your new PEMV-net email folder.=20
Warm Regards,=20
PEMV-net Moderators=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon May 12 15:39:19 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:39:19 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Big Tent. Man & Women (from Ivan Wilson)
Message-ID: <001001c3189c$a8447790$9677510c@jimmy88>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C31861.FBE59F90
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My thanks to Jackson and the co-contributors for a good start. From my
reading of emails and paper so far, there are two areas I wish to
address, as in title above.
A.The tent.
I was not impressed by the title for some days. Then I woke up to the
fact that my mental image was of a circus tent, like one now in my town.
They play for a few days, then move on elsewhere, leaving little but the
manure of their animals. We have probably all suffered from visiting
experts who were like that - they moved on, leaving little but guilt
that we could not make their approaches work in the longer term.
Sometimes we have seen that the reasons the experts were travelling
included the fact that they also could not make them work long term.
Then I replaced that image by a Bedouin tent - a great low sprawling
structure, with many rooms to accommodate the women, children, men,
slaves, guests, kitchens, storerooms. It is a place of growth, wide
welcome, refreshment.
This particular tent is for all who wish to move out of harming, and all
those who have tasted food there remain welcome as with the Bedouin. Its
central search is always for truth and integrity, and for respect for
all persons. We who share within it have never reached perfection on any
of those three parameters, but we continue to search. In such a tent,
Sara and Abram, physical and spirit parents to many of us, journeyed
from comfort toward their goal, and perhaps we continue much the same
process.
If the tent holds only therapists of different kinds, then it is like
the "therapeutic community" that once existed in a major jail here. None
of the prisoners whom I have met from then remembers it as useful. It
probably was good for the therapists. Lets make this a place where we
share the tent widely.
B.Women and Men.
I have worked against harming in many years and places. Always, when the
process was effective, women and men have been partners in
transformation. The man was often the 'front man', preparing the final
form of documents, speaking first. And always, with each of the many
effective teams I have known, the woman has been the source of
direction, the bearer of actual change.
The goal for each of us is ongoing positive change in each of our guests
and ourselves. When we listen to the accountants we know that one
effective interaction in a year, or one that results in a single year
longer out of prison, brings the community financial gain beyond their
expenditure on our work. And we hope for each one of our guests.
C.Abram and Sara.
Within the myth of these pioneers, there is an intriguing comment. In
English it says something like "Within the tent, Sara laughed." For me
that speaks both of the tent and of the role of our change bearers.
Ivan (lynandivan@comcen.com.au)
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C31861.FBE59F90
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My thanks to Jackson and the co-contributors for a =
good
start. From my
reading of emails and paper so far, there are two =
areas I
wish to
address, as in title above.
A.The tent.
I was not impressed by the title for some days. Then =
I woke
up to the
fact that my mental image was of a circus tent, like =
one now
in my town.
They play for a few days, then move on elsewhere, =
leaving
little but the
manure of their animals. We have probably all =
suffered from
visiting
experts who were like that - they moved on, leaving =
little
but guilt
that we could not make their approaches work in the =
longer
term.
Sometimes we =
have seen
that the reasons the experts were travelling
included the fact that they also could not make them =
work
long term.
Then I replaced that image by a Bedouin tent - a =
great low
sprawling
structure, with many rooms to accommodate the women,
children, men,
slaves, guests, kitchens, storerooms. It is a place =
of
growth, wide
welcome, refreshment.
This particular tent is for all who wish to move out =
of
harming, and all
those who have tasted food there remain welcome as =
with the
Bedouin. Its
central search is always for truth and integrity, and =
for
respect for
all persons. We who share within it have never =
reached
perfection on any
of those three parameters, but we continue to search. =
In
such a tent,
Sara and Abram, physical and spirit parents to many =
of us,
journeyed
from comfort toward their goal, and perhaps we =
continue much
the same
process.
If the tent holds only therapists of different kinds, =
then
it is like
the "therapeutic community" that once =
existed in a
major jail here. None
of the prisoners whom I have met from then remembers =
it as
useful. It
probably was good for the therapists. Lets make this =
a place
where we
share the tent widely.
B.Women and Men.
I have worked against harming in many years and =
places.
Always, when the
process was effective, women and men have been =
partners in
transformation. The man was often the 'front man', =
preparing
the final
form of documents, speaking first. And always, with =
each of
the many
effective teams I have known, the woman has been the =
source
of
direction, the bearer of actual =
change.
The goal for each of us is ongoing positive change in =
each
of our guests
and ourselves. When we listen to the accountants we =
know
that one
effective interaction in a year, or one that results =
in a
single year
longer out of prison, brings the community financial =
gain
beyond their
expenditure on our work. And we hope for each one of =
our
guests.
C.Abram and Sara.
Within the myth of these pioneers, there is an =
intriguing
comment. In
English it says something like "Within the tent, =
Sara
laughed." For me
that speaks both of the tent and of the role of our =
change
bearers.
Ivan (lynandivan@comcen.com.au)
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C31861.FBE59F90--
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon May 12 15:43:38 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:43:38 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Thoughts on hoisting a "Big Tent" from Shailushi Baxi (from Sally Jackson)
Message-ID: <001a01c3189d$422e0470$9677510c@jimmy88>
People working against DV have been band-aid's on a
profusely bleeding wound. Not to diminish in ANY WAY
the work that those of you at shelters and DV programs
do, you are great! It just needs more people, the big
tent is definitely the right idea.
The approach to including the various groups that you
suggest including, eg. those who deal with gang
violence, illiteracy, drug and alcohol abuse etc., is
to point out the implications of family violence on
all of these issues. I have mentioned educating
before, but in this area it shouldn't be necessary.
Any of the above mentioned and other groups would know
that a large number of the people they a seeking to
help are directly effected by domestic violence. The
statistics are all there. It is just a matter of
getting them to participate without taking their
funding. If the Big Tent could be independently
funded, relying on other groups for sharing
information, education opportunities and political
support of violence prevention, I don't believe it
would be difficult for a wide variety of agencies to
collaborate.
Sally Jackson
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon May 12 15:52:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:52:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] educating and mobilizing men (from Rus Ervin Funk)
Message-ID: <001b01c3189e$70d40b70$9677510c@jimmy88>
I have been reading and "listening" to this conversation with great
interest -- and it has indeed been a wonderful conversation. Thanks to=20
all that have posted and the wonderful comments and points that have =
been
made.
I have a few thoughts on the issues that have been raised -- under the
topic of "building a "big tent".
Firstly, in terms of whether or not male only or coed educational =
programs
are more effective. My reading of the research and my experience =
suggest
that in part, this depends on what one wants to achieve coed groups =
tend
to be better at increasing men's empathy, but not so good in increasing
men's ownership and sense of personal responsibility Men only groups =
tend
to do better at that, but not so good in increasing men's empathy for =
women
I want both. And, I want for women and men to be in dialogue with each
other about these issues -- how often do men and women get a chance to =
have
a sit-down, serious, conversation about the issues of sexist violence?
Rarely? Never? So for us to facilitate that (the goal being primarily =
for
men to listen to women's lives and realities), it seems to me, is
critically important in a process of engaging men and mobilizing men to
take action.
A related point -- our goal is to change men's attitudes about these
issues. Nobody's attitude about anything is changed as a result of one
one-hour presentatation. At best we can provide information. But if=20
our goal is to change men's attitudes (never mind mobilizing men-- which
requires even more intentional and strategic effort) we need to move =
beyond
one presentation. I think it important to us to consider developing
campaigns in our various locales -- campaign that begin, as Chris =
Kilmartin
suggests (and practices) by engaging men in an opportunity of
self-reflection about the issues of masculinity, privilege and male
violence But that's the beginning -- and it must be followed with
additional educational efforts that are designed to build on that in =
order
to encourage a change of attitudes about the issues of sexist violence.
Secondly, on the issue of working with men multi-culturally. As a =
European
American Bisexual activist on multiple issues, it seems to me that we =
can
learn much from the multi-issues organizing and activism that has been
occurring in recent years in relation to globalization. Sexist violence =
is not only a weapon of sexism -- used by a class of people (men) to
maintain
a system dominance and privilege vis-=E0-vis another class of people =
(women)
but it is also a weapon of racism and homophobia -- used by white folks =
to
maintain a system of dominance and privilege vis-=E0-vis people of =
color, and
by heterosexuals to maintain a system of domination and privilege =
vis-=E0-vis
queer folks.=20
In order to effectively mobilize men multi-culturally, we need to =
develop
and expand our ability to dialogue about the ways that sexist violence =
is
racist and homophobic -- and that by working against sexism and sexist
violence, we are working for civil rights of people of color and queer
folks.=20
In part this is based on the self-interest argument of getting men
involved, but in part this is also based on the morality argument -- as
human beings we have an absolute obligation to work to expand human =
rights.
This is part of our job on the planet. As white folks our job is to exp
and human rights for people of color, as men it is our job to expand =
human
rights for women, as heterosexuals, it is your job to expand human =
rights
for queers=20
Just some thoughts
Rus Ervin Funk, MSW
Consultant/Activist
Louisville, KY USA
rusfunk@starpowernet
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:03:20 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:03:20 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Resources on Sexual Violence (from Helen Moffett)
Message-ID: <000001c31960$cbd3b530$2477510c@jimmy88>
Resources on sexual violence: Rape Crisis Cape Town has a very =
interesting
piece on why statistics on rape are so often contested -- see
www.rapecrisis.org.za.=20
I've also written about the value of using the active voice and the =
first
person when speaking about sexual violence -- one paper can be found at
http://www/uct.ac.za/org/agi/assoc./hmoffett.htm.=20
Then there's the useful book James Lang was instrumental in putting =
together
with UN-Instraw: Partners for Change - Working with Men to end Gender =
Based
Violence http://www.un-instraw.org/en/resources/publications.html#a10
There is also a set of practical guidelines for those working against =
sexual
violence put out by the British NGO Womankind -- this is at:
http://www.womankind.org.uk/documents/stemming%20the%20tide%20march%2003.=
doc
Best to all,=20
Helen Moffett, African Gender Institute, University of Cape Town
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:03:20 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:03:20 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] What role can men with a history of abusing play? (from Helen Moffett)
Message-ID: <000101c31960$cd118c60$2477510c@jimmy88>
Hi, this is Helen Moffett from Cape Town, South Africa, and I'd like to
thank Ruben Reyes for so openly acknowledging his history of coming from =
a
family and a context in which domestic violence and sexual harassment =
were
present. This raises an NB issue for practitioners in the "big tent." So
far, reading these postings, I've read over and over again the
authorative-sounding claim that the "vast majority" of men are not =
violent,
but need to be engaged in the struggle against other men's violence. My =
own
research in South Africa points relentlessly to the fact than violent =
men
are in the minority, but only just (our Medical Research Council puts =
men
who have beaten a female partner at least once at close to 50% of the =
male
population, and while it's very difficult to get figures for rapists, =
it's
clear they make up a frighteningly big chunk. These figures hold for ALL
sectors of the population.)
I've come to realise there's a big difference between men who have =
battered,
abused or sexually assaulted/ harassed (for whatever reason) at some =
point
in their lives and now deeply regret this behaviour and (but are often
afraid to acknowledge it); and those men who think this is an okay way =
to
behave indefinitely. We need to be careful about further shaming and
silencing the first category by assuming that men involved in this kind =
of
campaign have never sullied their hands with gender violence. Men like =
Ruben
are invaluable because they have "been there" and can give abusive men =
hope
by pointing to the potential for change and showing that men with
"histories" can contribute positively to this kind of movement.
The other danger of assuming that there are no men with histories of
violence in the movement to end men's violence is that wolves can creep =
into
the fold. At one of Cape Town's first "Take Back the Night" marches, =
only a
handful of men joined in and were given a great deal of praise for doing =
so.
Imagine my horror on seeing in the front ranks a man who had sexually
harassed and intimidated me only a few months before. I later discovered =
he
was doing the same to other women. The "big tent" HAS to be a safe space =
for
those who have survived men's violence. Negotiating this is tricky, to =
say
the least, and I speak as a citizen of a country that has been painfully
struggling with the issues of reconciliation, disclosure, remorse,
forgiveness and amnesty in the wake of apartheid.
A separate issue I want to raise given the helpful practical focus of =
this
discussion: I've found that when I present my statistical findings on =
the
prevalence of men in South African society who practice gender-violence, =
no
matter how neutrally I do so, men AND women resist, often angrily. I've =
had
respected academics (including women) tell me flat-out that they refuse =
to
accept my findings, even though I get my stats from sources considered =
to be
extremely reliable (largely medical research). There is something about
stating "according to the research, X no. of South African men have
raped/battered a women" that gets people really upset -- whereas the =
same
audiences will accept the claims "XX women are raped/beaten" without =
demur.
The reasons for this are many (and have to do with my insistence on =
shifting
the focus from victims to perpetrators), but I'd welcome practical
suggestions on how to get past this kind of denial.
I'll post a note on resources separately because of the space =
limitations.
Thanks for all you do --
Helen Moffett, African Gender Institute, University of Cape Town
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:23:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Origins of the big tent and questions for further discussion (from Jackson Katz)
Message-ID: <000001c31963$9974a100$2477510c@jimmy88>
Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to contribute to this dialogue. =
So
many people have offered interesting and important insights and =
information.
I want to share some ideas about the "big tent" concept. The first time =
I
heard the term "big tent" was in reference to U.S. party politics. One
oft-attributed source for the term was the late Lee Atwater, a legendary
Republican political consultant who is widely regarded as one of the key
architects of Republican political success over the past 25 years. The =
big
tent was the conceptual framework used by Republican strategists to
incorporate the various factions of the ascendant conservative movement =
--
and the more traditional Republican establishment - into a unified =
political
force. Implicit in the concept was the idea that strict litmus tests =
for
loyalty or ideological purity were counterproductive to the long-term =
goal
of (conservative) Republicans winning elections and hence achieving =
enormous
power.
The idea of a big tent in the context we are discussing in this series - =
a
big tent approach to ending men's violence - has some similarities with =
that
political effort, including the need for various groups with slightly or
significantly different agendas to find common ground in the service of =
a
larger vision. The goal of ending (or significantly reducing) men's
violence is certainly a big enough one to merit ongoing strategic =
thinking
and vision. =20
When we first started discussing this paper, I realized I'd have to =
decide
whether to include women or women's organizations explicitly in the
discussion, or keep the focus on men and men's organizations. Obviously =
any
strategy to end men's violence has to include women centrally; but we =
made
the decision in this paper to highlight the issues of men's inclusion =
under
the big tent.
Several people have made excellent points at the conceptual level about =
the
big tent approach. For one, it is not an entirely new approach in this =
work
- although it has not -- to my knowledge at least - been discussed much =
in
print or public forums such as this. Thanks to Gillian Greensite, for
example, for pointing out that she and others have long been making =
links
between gender violence and various other issues (e.g. child abuse, =
youth
violence, homelessness, etc.), as well as urging anti-rape activists to =
make
connections to the trade union movement and other important social and
political movements. =20
Early in this project, Dean Peacock, James Lang and I all agreed that we
could not talk about the big tent as a prospective approach, as =
something we
needed to theorize and create from scratch. Why? Because there is so =
much
exciting work going on already, in the US and around the world, that =
employs
the big tent approach, both in spirit and in practice. So we knew we =
had to
talk about the growing "big tent" movement, and highlight some of its
successes. The case studies attached to the longer paper are filled =
with
excellent information and ideas about various efforts to include more =
men -
on a personal and an institutional level -- both in the US and around =
the
world. I urge anyone who's interested to take the time to read the case
studies if you haven't already.
I was also intrigued by Tony's Switzer's question about the "small =
tent,"
and what practices in the past have not worked, or kept the gender =
violence
prevention "movement" from expanding and becoming more influential in =
male
culture. I hope people can share some experiences from their work that
might offer some insight into what to avoid, or that give some ideas =
about
the historic barriers to a big tent approach taking hold.=20
One of the most exciting aspects to me of the big tent approach to =
ending
men's violence is that it is a big enough concept to be global in scope.
One fascinating aspect of the communications technology some of us have =
at
our fingertips is that it allows sharing ideas/resources/friendships =
across
continents in exceedingly short periods of times. Every time I read a =
post
from Nicaragua, Australia or Guyana, for example, I'm reminded of how =
big
the big tent can really be if we keep working together. And I'm =
encouraged
by all of the efforts at international collaborations and sharing in =
this
work - as I know many of you are.
Finally, several people have pointed out that men doing gender violence
prevention work can learn a lot from the experiences of anti-racist =
whites
organizing and struggling for civil rights and human rights for people =
of
color, indigenous peoples, etc. It is important to point out that many =
of
us are the same people! There are all sorts of similarities between
anti-racist whites' and anti-sexist men's work, and most of the men with
whom I work are constantly trying to make those connections, both in our =
own
thinking and in our personal and institutional work. (I'm greatly =
looking
forward to reading "White Men Challenging Racism: 35 Personal Stories" =
by
Cooper Thompson, Emmett Schaefer and Harry Brod, from Duke University =
Press.
I'm also greatly looking forward to my friend and colleague Byron Hurt's
film about misogyny and homophobia in rap music and hip hop culture, =
titled
"Beyond Beats and Rhymes," due to be broadcast some time this fall. Full
disclosure: I might be a talking head in the film.)
But there are also some unique challenges that we face as men doing this
work. For example, how do straight men and gay men work together to end
men's violence against women, if some of the straight men don't agree =
that
heterosexism is as destructive a form of bigotry as sexism? (And is
inexorably linked to sexism?) This is a critical issue in big tent
theorizing, because there are several groups of men (e.g. Boy Scouts,
Promise Keepers, or the male-dominated US military) which have policies
about gays that are seen by some to be Part of the Problem, and not part =
of
the big tent solution.=20
I look forward to hearing what people think about the compromises
individuals and organizations will have to make in the coming years if =
we
want to expand dramatically the number of men who take gender violence
prevention seriously. Are the compromises worth it? When do ends =
justify
the means? Can we reduce men's violence against women and children =
without
confronting competing ideological perspectives on the causes of men's
violence? Is it possible to table some of those differences - as many
successful political movements have done with core constituencies - in =
the
service of achieving more social and political clout? When does =
compromise
become sell-out? If this is about saving women's (and men's) lives and
preventing enormous amounts of unnecessary pain and suffering, when does
infighting and hand-wringing by men become self-indulgent? And who's to
decide? Greg Kelly in North Queensland, Australia wrote, "the onus is =
on
men to earn the trust and respect of our female counterparts in this =
field."
I thought that was beautifully put. But it's subject to various
interpretations. Anyone want to venture some thoughts?
Jackson Katz
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:23:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] educating and mobilizing men from Rus Ervin Funk (from Karen Brand)
Message-ID: <000101c31963$9b69e150$2477510c@jimmy88>
A related point (to Rus Funk) -- our goal is to change men's attitudes =
about
these issues. Nobody's attitude about anything is changed as a result =
of
one one-hour presentation. At best we can provide information.
=20
Another point is that women are still in need of education on these =
issues.
Women and girls are still so under the social influence of passivity.
However, when they are educated and empowered they are able to teach the =
men
to whom they are closest. I have found this to be true in my own home.
Through love and compassion, men can understand the error of their
socialized behavior.
karen
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:23:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Men as discussion group bystanders from Larry Grudt (from KC Wagner)
Message-ID: <000401c31963$9d04f3b0$2477510c@jimmy88>
The issues raised by Larry Grudt are very much in the forefront of our
organizing efforts for a "Men As Allies" initiative with unions. We are
building on the foundations of a union domestic violence awareness and
outreach program on domestic violence that has been implemented at a =
variety
of NYC area union conferences and training sessions over the last three
years by an inter-union Coalition founded in 1996(see case study). And, =
we
are building on the traditions of community, mutual aid, social change,
organizing and the existing rank and file leadership and infra-structure =
of
communications that exist within unions. We plan to target active rank =
and
file union members or shop stewards - (members trained as problem =
solvers to
deal with issues of workers rights, job security, working conditions and =
the
enforcement of the collective bargaining agreement at the job site).
We plan to hold an organizing luncheon in June -with an experienced male
activist on this issue - where we will build on these traditions but
refocus them to address some of the issues you raised and launch a union
awareness project that will be implemented by men. Like your group, we =
will
start with a small group of men - invited by their union sisters active =
in
the Coalition- because of their demonstrated leadership, interest and
commitment to this issue, willingness to talk to other men - to "pilot" =
some
activities.
How can men raise the issue of male violence against women at the =
workplace?
- We plan to launch a "Strong Men Don't Bully" - Union Men Against =
Domestic
Abuse(Thanks to Gloucester Men Against DV in Mass) awareness campaign
complete with buttons to hand out and talking points - that we will =
develop
together at the luncheon. We will focus on the silent bystanders, many =
of
whom have come forward after union conference or shop steward trainings =
on
the issue, talking about members were in job jeopardy and revealed that =
DV
was a factor or wanted to do more as concerned men. Our experience =
supports
the Family Violence Prevention Funds statistic that (at least) 26% of =
men
want to do something about domestic violence but were never asked.
How to deal with the fear or potential for the escalation of violence, =
if
the issue is addressed?
We will draw from the union's experience in dealing with the safety and
health issue of workplace violence. We have one tragic example that has
provided us with the determination to address this issue. Three =
co-workers
heard a fourth worker - whom they knew for years as a nice enough guy - =
say
something one day at the job site that seemed totally out of character =
for
him. He was married to another union and they "seemed" to be a happy =
couple
as they were often seen together at union functions. He said " I'd =
rather
kill her than let her walk out on me". Thinking he was "blowing off =
steam,
using a figure of speech- since he didn't fit the "profile of someone =
who
batterers, and it was a private issue after all" they said or nothing.
Shortly thereafter, his wife does leave him - he stalks her at her job
location and murders her.
Again, we hope to use our collective wisdom to develop intervention
strategies. We will brainstorm a series of "what if scenarios" and =
discuss
realistic ways of handling these very difficult situations for all =
members
concerned.
This collaborative effort between men and women builds on the leadership
role that women have played in raising the issue within the unions but
creates a forum for men to take a stand. We have great hopes for its
success.
KC Wagner
New York Labor Union Coalition Against Domestic Violence
kcw8@cornell.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:48:01 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:48:01 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: the Big Tent (from Kelly Bentley)
Message-ID: <000001c31967$09a54da0$2477510c@jimmy88>
I wanted to share that it is so wonderful to have this
conversation with people from all over the globe! It's
encouraging to know we're not in this alone.
I work for a domestic/sexual violence agency in rural
area of Michigan, United States. One thing we
constantly struggle with in involving men, is wording
invitations, flyers, etc. in a fashion that doesn't
appear 'offensive'. We've spent time wording and
re-wording flyers, brochures, etc. to try to ensure we
don't come across as 'man haters'. I work in an all
female agency and, being in a small town, we have to
make sure what we intend to do is how it is perceived
in our communities. It is really challenging when
you're simply trying to educate people or invite them
to an event or training but need to make sure you're
not going to make them angry based on your choice of
words.
Regarding the big tent, it would be nice for people to
realize that we're all under the tent together. And
without everyone pitching in to keep the tent up, it's
likely to collapse. It would be great for those who
are still on the outside to feel safe and unthreatened
about coming in.
Kelly Bentley
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 15:50:41 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:50:41 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] The Big Tent (from Donald Gault)
Message-ID: <000101c31967$68f10e20$2477510c@jimmy88>
I would like to thank Jackson Katz for his excellent, thought-provoking
piece, and for the opportunity to participate in this effort.
I am in full agreement with the "Big Tent" notion -- one way to think =
about
it is that, as Jackson points out, we live in cultures that often teach =
and
condone male violence -- this is actually the "Big Tent" operating
effectively in a negative way (building violent attitudes and behaviors,
often unknowingly, as in the case of much media violence), so our =
response
must be to use the "Tent" notion to build communities and families of =
peace
and respect.
I would like to add a thought I learned from a colleague who earned his
living doing advertising, a man named Dick Wilson. Dick says that for =
any
communication effort to be effective, it must incorporate the "ABCs of
Communication:"
Awareness -- must clearly create a new awareness
Benefit -- must show benefit to person or persons you are trying to =
convince
Call to Action - must include clear and doable call to action
This may sound overwhelming, but a cigarette ad saying "Winston tastes =
good
like a cigarette should" with accompanying pictures/ images of =
beautiful,
healthy people accomplishes all three in a matter of seconds -- and it
works.
So if we apply the B principle -- benefit to the people we are trying to
convince -- which in this case is men, to convince them/us to be =
respectful
and gentle with others, I think underlying Jackson's (and others') =
pieces
here is the notion that men are not in very good shape spiritually and
emotionally, and that these underlying problems (emptiness?) in men's =
lives
in part lead to the tragic consequences of family/sexual violence.
Just today I received an e-mail with the following info:
The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) announced the launch of =
the
first national campaign to raise awareness that depression is a major
public health problem affecting an estimated 6 million men annually.=20
Research suggests that men are less likely to seek treatment for this
serious illness; data also show that men die by suicide at four times =
the
rate of women. In Minnesota, approximately 80% of suicides are men.=20
Another colleague, Dave Mathews, who has worked for years as a therapist
with violent men and boys, says that anecdotally he would suggest that
depression in men may have a high correlation with men acting out =
violently;
our work here operating The Men's Line in the Twin Cities for the past 6
years has shown incredible statements of men feeling isolated and =
confused.
SO I read in Jackson's and others papers the need to help MEN HEAL -- so
that we might prevent horrific acts of violence against women, children, =
and
other men. In addition to being highly humane and potentially =
effective,
this approach would meet the ABC's of Communication criteria as well.
Peace to you all
Donald Gault
Saint Paul - Ramsey County Public Health
St. Paul, MN USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 17:11:58 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:11:58 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Building a big tent (from Anja Nekes)
Message-ID: <000001c31972$c3e5cf90$2477510c@jimmy88>
Dear Discussion members,
I think the discussion is great but emotional
abuse is also one point which needs a discussion.
As you can only see violence directly I think that
emotional abuse is also a major point which can
hurt a women. But you can't see it directly
as when a woman is beaten or something else.
I hope that this problem can be solved also
as the problem of violence.
with kind regards,
Anja Nekes
e-mail: a_nekes@yahoo.de
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 17:11:58 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:11:58 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: educating and mobilizing men from Karen Brand (from Karen Andrews)
Message-ID: <000101c31972$c4d119f0$2477510c@jimmy88>
More thoughts from another Karen...
I think you are right that women and girls are still very much under the
influence of the socialization process, but I don't think that we should
hold them accountable for changing the attitudes of men. That's very
similar to holding victims of domestic violence accountable for
changing the behaviors of a batterer. Or expecting the victims of any
oppressive system to change things. The only thing that ever changes it
is if the members of the privileged group decide for themselves that it
is necessary to change and give up power. It doesn't mean you don't
continue to empower the members of the oppressed group - but the
battered women's movement has been doing that successfully for over
years now and women are still being killed in astronomical numbers. So
I think this is the responsibility of men, but those of us in the
movement will gladly stand beside them as partners.
Karen Andrews
Skagit Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault Services
Mount Vernon, WA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 18:42:57 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:42:57 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Men as discussion group bystanders from KC Wagner (from Robert Kerr)
Message-ID: <000601c3197f$79800580$2477510c@jimmy88>
Hello,
I think something that is hard for the women with whom we work is
understanding the approach that men are often forced to take in
recruiting other men as bystanders. We have often found that in
order to get young men interested in our bigtop approach (that is
in coalition building among Greek organizations, athletic teams,
etc.) we need to acknowledge the ways in which they feel judged,
stigmatized, and yes, even victimized as a 'target' group. We
feel that it is not our job to tell them that they are in fact part
of larger institutions that do indeed perpetuate dangerous
attitudes toward women, but rather we let them realize this for
themselves after long and honest discussions.
Sometimes these discussions start out being very difficult, even
contentious at times. But we acknowledge that for many of the men
in the group, no one has ever taken their emotions seriously (all
of us men know how to 'suck it up,' a lesson we seem to have known
since before conscious memory). If the men in our group feel that
their feelings don't matter, then why should we expect them to be
concerned about anybody else's feelings? Once we have let them
express their anger and frustrations about how they perceive our
campus community treats them as 'high risk' groups, we begin to ask
them why they think people perceive of them the way they do. We
have found time and time again that this approach has been
successful in giving men ownership over their feelings and actions
(both individually and collectively among housemates, team members,
etc.).
As much as society tells us that men are tough and emotionally
detached, we have found that the men we work with are much more
emotionally fragile than most people think. What is usually
described as 'a bruised ego' is simply an acceptable way for men to
say that they are any number of things, such as embarrassed,
humiliated, frustrated, hurt, etc. We don't think starting off by
putting men on the defensive is a productive way to recruit active
bystanders, so we often have to meet our students where they are
before helping them to bring themselves to the next level. I think
it's more likely that this will happen when you start off by taking
men seriously, even when they are at a level of understanding that
is frustratingly lower than where you think it should be. Our most
effective strategy in getting men to take part in our discussions
has been to simply invite them, face-to-face.
Does this mean that we have solved the problem of sexual and other
forms of violence at Dartmouth? Far from it. We are a young
program, and make mistakes all the time -- sometimes serious
mistakes. Interestingly, however, the students have accepted our
mistakes and helped us learn from them. I think this has
everything to do with the fact that we try to take them seriously.
It also means that we have a small but dedicated core group of men
(twenty men or so across campus), who really buy into the bystander
approach, and represent a truly 'bigtop' coalition of groups
spanning racial, political, and socio-economic spectrums.
Robert Kerr, Ph.D.
Program Coordinator, The Men's Project
Dartmouth College
Robert.Kerr@dartmouth.edu
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~cwg/mens.html
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 18:54:15 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:54:15 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: the Big Tent from Kelly Bentley (from Patrick Diggs)
Message-ID: <000701c31981$0db4bc90$2477510c@jimmy88>
Great discussion so far.
One of the programs I run here in Florida is a "Father Services
Program". Our objective is to help at risk fathers, or expecting
fathers transition into responsible fatherhood. We have approximately
50 fathers (voluntarily) enrolled in our program. As Director, and
someone painfully aware of our DV and sexual assault problems, I pounced
on the opportunity to "slip" some much needed education on these issues
into the contractually obligated work we do with these men. Not long
ago I approached a local domestic violence advocate to brainstorm ways
to collaborate. I don't think I was taken very seriously. I am
constantly looking for creative ways to educate men in our current
climate of funding cuts and budget constraints. Collaborations,
partnerships, and alliances are the answer.
I have always thought that what better way to combat gender based
violence than to have it denounced by the very gender that perpetrates
most of it. The fathers in our program are a long way away from this
level of activism, but "men against violence" movements will be an
integral part of any solution.
-Patrick
Moderators' Note: Our Discussion Three: June 16th - 27th "Building Bridges
between Responsible Fatherhood Programs and Programs Working to End Men's
Violence" will be an opportunity to cover this topic extensively.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 19:36:25 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:36:25 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big tent (from Dave McIntire)
Message-ID: <000801c31986$f1be79d0$2477510c@jimmy88>
I'd like to offer some thoughts if I may. I've been a professional
advocate[hired by our local sa/dv program in January of this year] for a =
relatively short time. I don't pretend to have all [ok, any] of the =
answers.
I've basically been lurking and listening. Thanks for the opportunity.
Thanks=20
for the wisdom.
I would like to jump in the fray with one of the questions Dr. Katz=20
offer up regarding who gets to play in the big tent. I come with a =
fairly=20
conservative Christian pedigree but have spent the last ten years
reconciling what I believed with what I have come to understand. I have
found I can be an
effective advocate both because, and in spite of, my conservative=20
upbringing.
I guess my point is [and question might be] if someone wants to be part=20
of the big tent, what right do we have to deny them the opportunity? =
Give=20
them the same opportunity and the same accountability. We would never =
tell a
victim that they could be a part of a program when they hit "this" dv
maturity level [left the abuser; went through counseling; etc.].
Is there a learning curve? Yes. Should we be concerned about motive? We
should be concerned about the motive, men and women included, of anyone
wanting to be an advocate for such a volatile issue, you bet. Will it=20
make it more messy? Yup! Will it be worth it when they can speak
articulately=20
about the devastation of violence on another human being? You bet. They =
also
get to play in the sandbox regularly with folks some of us never will. =
And
it=20
forces us to be able to articulate what we mean and envision in a way =
that=20
honors the diversity of the tent.
Humbly,
Dave McIntire
Community Liaison,=20
YWCA Battered Women Task Force,=20
Topeka Kansas
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 22:46:33 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:46:33 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] the separate group question and men in the politics of DV and SA (from Arnie Green)
Message-ID: <000b01c319a1$816f4d10$7577510c@jimmy88>
I started out working with young men in Chicago in the early 70's. In
those days I was using the early women's movement "consciousness
raising" group process. I had some success but it was hit and miss. I
then moved to Oregon and began working with alternative school youth. I
started out with a co-ed group and it was just too big. So I suggested
that we do separate boys and girls groups. There was quite an uproar.
The girls were the most vocal about not wanting separate groups. So I
backed off and asked the group if they had ever heard of the double
standard. They hadn't so I asked the boys how they felt about a boy who
went out with a different girl ever weekend. You can imagine the
responses. I then asked them the same question about a girl who went
out with a different boy every weekend. The responses were equally
predictable. I was keeping an eye on the girls in the room. Watching
them get angrier and angrier. Finally the leader of the girls said it
might just be a good idea to meet separately.
I spent the next several months working with the boys while a female
intern from the local university met with the girls. At the end of the
process we did some fishbowl exercises. They were incredibly powerful.
This process yielded up information of several date rapes in the group
that were by tacit consent not spoken of although everyone knew they
happened. One of the boys raped a girl who was passed out drunk. As he
was the leader of the group his public confession had a powerful impact
on the other boys. Although I didn't follow the group I have to believe
that behaviors were changed by both the boys and girls.
I no longer do direct service but am involved in the political struggle:
Trying to get the legislature to pay for victim services. I have come
to the politics of domestic violence late in my career (I have been
working on kid issues for thirty years). I find myself frustrated by
the lack of progress. Most of the kid shelters and transition programs
are fully funded by a combination of state and federal sources.
Government funding only pays for a fraction of battered women's
shelters. Federal sources allow for no administrative funding or limit
it to 5%. I find myself one of two men working on these particulars and
wonder if any other state movements have been successful in attracting
men to the political struggles for funding and substantive legislation.
Last session we tried to increase the marriage license fee to help
support shelters. One of the male legislators asked me what marriage
had to do with domestic violence and didn't domestic violence occur
among non-married couples so why should married couples have to bare the
burden. So it goes.
Arnie Green
Executive Director
Community Works
900 East Main St
Medford, OR 97504
agreen@community-works.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 22:50:27 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:50:27 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] introduction (from Matt Crichton)
Message-ID: <000c01c319a2$0cff4c40$7577510c@jimmy88>
Hi
"It would be great for those who are still on the outside to feel safe =
and
unthreatened about coming in."
I signed up for this email list because I attended a men's conference at =
northeastern university in Boston a while ago...and learned a lot.
I am also very interested in creating a more caring world.
I recently watched bowling for columbine......I was sad.
My brother committed suicide about four years ago (age 17)...so this =
affects
me deeply and I will work for a positive difference.
I do not work for an agency that focuses on men or women or violence, =
but=20
might work on the bigger picture..YMCA.
I do not work with any of these populations directly. I develop computer =
labs in four Y branches in Boston right now.
I do not really have any insights to offer right now.....except an open =
ear.
thanks.
Matt
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 22:53:41 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:53:41 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent (from Wally Roth)
Message-ID: <000f01c319a2$80363b60$7577510c@jimmy88>
I am delighted by the discussion that's happening about looking at the =
big
picture. I've been working full-time, since 1986, alongside men to end =
our
violence . When I realized that men's violence was part and parcel of =
our
whole system (patriarchy) I became disheartened. Just like many of the =
men
say in our program, "I didn't know that was violence", we as a society =
need
to come to the point where we are ready to say, "I didn't know I was
participating in a society that promotes and practices the use of =
dominance
over others, especially women and children." Unfortunately, it may =
require a
personal crisis on a massive scale before that will happen. In the =
meantime,
men are hanging on to their privileged positions with all their might.
Abdicating from a power position isn't easy. We need to invite our human
colleagues to consider how else we can be. Only by our own example can =
we
hope to influence others during the time we have together.
Wally Roth
Coordinator, ALTERNATIVES Program
Main Floor, City Hospital
701 Queen Street
Saskatoon, SK S7K 0M7
Email: wally.roth@saskatoonhealthregion.ca
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 13 23:27:33 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:27:33 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent from Jackson Katz (from Toby Myers)
Message-ID: <000801c319a7$3ba8d8e0$7577510c@jimmy88>
I remember the saying by Lyndon Johnson about J. Edgar Hoover. It is =
better
having him in the tent pissing out than out of the tent pissing in. =
There
are conclusions that can be drawn from that that I just now think about.
=20
Toby Myers, Longtime worker in Texas Battered Women's Work
tobymyers@yahoo.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed May 14 01:00:07 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:00:07 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent from Jackson Katz (from Ken Snyder)
Message-ID: <000001c319b4$2a51fdd0$7577510c@jimmy88>
Thanks to all for contributing to this very worthy discussion. Here are
some additional thoughts regarding "growing the tent".
It should be made clear that all men's groups are invited to =
participate.
However, there should be a way for them to self-select or choose their
involvement. Regardless of the aims of their particular =
organization/group,
it should be made very clear that this "big tent" has certain guiding =
or
core principles within which all participants are expected to support. =20
These principles should address both what the big tent does and how it =
does
it. Having a set of guiding principles addresses several of the issues
spoken to so far in this dialogue. (1) It is important for men's groups =
to
establish credibility with those women's groups that have been =
advocating
for and serving DV victims. (2) These principles would constitute men
"taking a stand" against domestic violence in very concrete terms. (3) =
The
big tent would have principles which serve as a basis for holding each =
other
accountable for how we (as men and our groups) act and behave. (4) =
These
principles would serve as standards for the initiatives and programs
undertaken by the big tent members. There are probably other benefits =
which
aren't coming to mind at this moment.
In fact, the development of these core principles should probably be an
important outcome of the early work of the big tent. As an example, we
might consider operating according to a core principle that states: =
'abusive
behavior is learned and it can be unlearned'.
Such a statement will undoubtedly lead to a lively discussion which will
most certainly lead to greater awareness of the root causes of men's =
abusive
behavior. Further, there is an element of optimism in the principle =
that
suggests real breakthroughs are possible.
Are there groups out there working with male abusers who would be =
willing to
share their guiding principles for the good of the big tent?
Your comments would be greatly appreciated.
Ken Snyder
Board Member
Family Service of King County, Washington.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed May 14 15:30:01 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:30:01 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: the Big Tent (from Mawuli Dake)
Message-ID: <3EC260F9.8030000@mencanstoprape.org>
Great discussion so far especially getting to know that you are not
alone in the challenges you face.
I work and volunteer with three women's groups in Ghana. With the
Network for Women's Rights (a national umbrella for women's groups and
human rights organizations and individuals) as the Programme Officer. I
also work as a Legal Advocate with the Women's Initiative for Self
Empowerment a non-governmental organization committed to providing free
legal, medical, counseling and other support services to women and
children survivors of domestic violence, sexual abuse and other forms of
abuse in Ghana and a member of the Gender Violence Survivors Support
network. I also co-host a weekly radio discussion programme on domestic
violence and women's rights. We are currently trying to design male
programmes to provide the platform for men to join the campaign.
About the big tent: Obviously, it is a highly potential strategy for
success. Often times, it effectively takes local, national and
international efforts and struggles to resist and change negative
actions and all other forms of injustice in society, being it laws
barring women or black people from voting, laws protecting children etc.
When people work across boundaries: when men and women unite for a
common purpose, when men across various cultures unite and when people
across national, geographical etc boundaries effectively work together,
then there is positive change.
The issue in Ghana is erroneously regarded as women's issue. So very few
men are interested in getting involved. As the discussion goes on, it
will be helpful to know some of the strategies that have worked
elsewhere with regards to making men see the issue. And also how to make
men take responsibility for their actions and never try to blame their
victims for their actions which they usually do.
In all these efforts however, it is important to recognise that the are
bigger social, institutional and structural issues that re-enforce men's
attitude and it is very crucial for us to equally focus on transforming
those institutions.
Mawuli Dake
ACCRA-GHANA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed May 14 15:32:53 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:32:53 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Wally Roth (from Linda Hutchinson)
Message-ID: <3EC261A5.4060802@mencanstoprape.org>
I realize many men are threatened by their "letting go" of their
patriarchal way of life, many women have trouble "letting go" also. But
its not about who will be in charge or dominate in a relationship; it's
about domination in general. Why does a society need any one race, any
one sex, any one religion, etc. to dominate, can't we all just be
people, living in the same world? Diversity is good, it keeps us humble,
it allows us to be who we are and celebrate the differences as well as
the similarities. I have enjoyed these discussions and will continue to
view everyone's comments, I am learning to appreciate and learn from you
all!
Linda Hutchinson, Advocate (for a rape crisis center)
South East Kentucky
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed May 14 15:30:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:30:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Wally Roth (from Linda Hutchinson)
Message-ID: <001501c31a2d$c2c75640$1178510c@jimmy88>
I realize many men are threatened by their "letting go" of their
patriarchal way of life, many women have trouble "letting go" also. But
its not about who will be in charge or dominate in a relationship; it's
about domination in general. Why does a society need any one race, any
one sex, any one religion, etc. to dominate, can't we all just be
people, living in the same world? Diversity is good, it keeps us humble,
it allows us to be who we are and celebrate the differences as well as
the similarities. I have enjoyed these discussions and will continue to
view everyone's comments, I am learning to appreciate and learn from you
all!
Linda Hutchinson, Advocate (for a rape crisis center)
South East Kentucky
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed May 14 15:58:35 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 08:58:35 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Wally Roth (from Donald Gault)
Message-ID: <001801c31a31$ae0097e0$1178510c@jimmy88>
I would urge some caution in the statement "men are hanging on to their
privileged positions with all their might", and some of the other
statements that have been floating here questioning whether men can be
authentic partners in ending violence. On the basis of their being men,
would we question the credentials and sincerity of Ghandi, Dr. King, Nelson
Mandela or Daniel Barrigan, etc, etc. etc. ?
I believe that we are confronting a fundamental problem of HUMANITY --
people's inhumanity to people. Part of my work, the side that looks at
domestic violence, certainly sees that this form of cruelty is primarily
practiced by men. However, in other aspects of my work, looking at child
abuse and violence/disrespect in the workplace, the gender breakout often
looks quite different.
Rollo May said that "Violence arises not out of power, but out of
powerlessness"; Dr. James Gilligan says that "A person will act out
violently when they are overwhelmed by a sense of shame and humiliation".
Dr. James Garbarino says that "All people have three fundamental needs:
Stability, Security and Affirmation"; Jennifer James says, "Civilization is
the long process of learning to be kind". Finally, Barbara Deming said, "A
liberation movement that is nonviolent sets the oppressor free as well as
the oppressed."
I believe that our work will never be effective until 1) we understand and
respond to the CAUSES of violence, as outlined by May and Gilligan; 2) We
embrace and build on providing fundamental needs, as outlined by Garbarino;
3) We recognize and work within the historical context cited by James; and
4) We stop arguing about who can and cannot be a part of the solution, and
see each other as common humanity, working to find meaning and peace in
life, and work to free each other, as Deming suggests.
Peace to you all
Donald Gault
Saint Paul - Ramsey County Public Health
St. Paul, Minnesota USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:08:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:08:10 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Video Games (from Ben Atherton Zeman)
Message-ID: <3EC3913A.2@mencanstoprape.org>
Although it's quite a bit to read, I'm enjoying this discussion thoroughly!
On today's morning news, I saw excerpts from the latest "Grand Theft
Auto" video game. It featured topless women tied up to posts, that the
game player would shoot to get points. It featured scantily clad
prostitutes approaching the player's character - you get points,
apparently, for beating her up until she falls down, then continuing to
beat her until blood pools around her head. The character this morning
was kicking her between the legs.
Most of the discussion revolved around who should take responsibility
for this kind of violence - the video game manufacturer, parents, the
government, etc. Completely taken for granted was the fact that boys
love to play this kind of game. Completely absent was any voices of
young males, speaking out against this violence, sexualized violence,
and violence against women in general.
I know that many of you work with young males - they can't all love
thiskind of thing! If any group of young males wanted to take a public
stance against this kind of violence, I believe it would get media
coverage, and may inspire other young males to join such an effort.
They'd be role models for other young men, and for us adults as well.
I think it was Jackson who said that in the absence of male voices
speaking up against violence and sexism, other voices end up speaking
for us. Let the young men who don't want to be represented as loving
sexualized violence speak!
Ben Atherton Zeman
Communications Specialist, Women's Resource Center of South County
61 Main St., Wakefield, RI 02879
(401) 782-3995, www.wrcsc.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:13:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:13:30 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Donald Gault (from Valerie L'Herrou)
Message-ID: <3EC3927A.1010402@mencanstoprape.org>
I appreciate Donald's comments about the fact that all men are not
holding onto their privileged positions "with all their might," but
it's also useful to notice that some of the male examples he held up
actually did hold onto their male privilege, even as they worked to end
violence. Just because someone has done a lot of good things, does not
mean that they are faultless or that they didn't buy into the belief
systems of their society.
As far as the genesis of violence goes, I would argue that the desire
for power, not powerlessness, is the cause of violence. In the most
recent and obvious example, Saddam Hussein did not feel powerless in his
country as he murdered thousands of people. Nor did George Bush when he
dropped bombs and killed hundreds more Iraqis.
Similarly, while many individuals do feel powerless and use violence to
gain a sense power, others just want to gain more power than they
already have. They like the feeling of being powerful. Yes, men under
stress, especially long-term stress such as poverty and unemployment,
may tend to act out violently when they have not before. And yes, when
it comes to sexual assault, many men feel a rage toward women that
partly comes from feeling not powerful enough in some area of their
lives--but many others feel a sense of entitlement. And, yes, many
mothers feel overwhelmed by stress, anger, lack of money, and
powerlessness, and their children become an outlet for their stress.
But there is a difference, as they say in the domestic violence
movement, between "caregiver stress" and "domestic violence." Systematic
violence is more likely to come from a pervasive desire for more power,
whether one is lacking in it or no. It's sort of the difference between
a large powerful country bombing another country, and a marginalized
group performing terrorist acts in an effort to gain enough power to
gain their goals. The violence can't be condoned in any
case, but let's not ignore the fact that the powerful seek to maintain
their power through violence--and that they can (and do, ultimately)
cause more damage than the powerless.
So, I don't think we need to let men off the hook here, even as we
recognize that all men are not violent, and many are doing good work to
end violence. Violent men are destroying their own humanity along with
that of those they harm. And yes, they are holding onto their sense of
privilege, where it exists, with all their might. The more so if they
only area in which they have a sense of privilege is in the gender
arena. That is why it's not just a question of "people inhumanity to
people." There is a system in play here, and that's the inequity between
the genders. And the more men feel threatened by a shift in that system,
the more they act out violently as they try to preserve it.
Valerie L'Herrou
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:23:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:23:24 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] overall impressions (from Kim McCarten)
Message-ID: <3EC394CC.1090903@mencanstoprape.org>
After reading many fine posts, I have a few observations:
- I think saying that change requires love and compassion from women
towards men *can* reinforce a negative pattern.
Women need to develop their (our) own underdeveloped compassion for
other women first---and make sure our anger at woman-hating is in
place---before we can have the luxury of having love and compassion for
violent/abusive men (know that I do love men, but hate woman-hating. I
felt the need to clarify----isn't that funny?)
Too often, love and compassion for men turns into excusing behavior,
feeling too grateful for "crumbs" of accountability, and reinforces
placating.
This approach seems neither respectful of men nor respectful of the
lifetime devastation sexism and violence leaves in its wake.
It's connected to Helen's point about people rejecting the focus on
"violent men" in her statistics. Same with Kelly's comment about
"offending" men.
This is protectionism and is a *huge* problem.
Men need to face women's anger and women need to feel brave enough to
express it directly towards men. I think this step is crucial for women
to fully grow into empowerment.
- I'd be interested in more thoughts about the South African rape epidemic.
It seems to me that the country went from racial to gender apartheid. I
see racism and sexism as the same, and I think this shift is something
that needs to be examined.
And how/is this related to misogyny in the Hip Hop culture?
- I agree that there have to be certain criteria for people/groups to
join the 'tent.'
I see sexism as a virus, and as such, it gets more 'antibiotic
resistant' as we go along. So we just have to be careful of 'pretenders'
(like those that have tried to hijack the US father's movement).
I see vigilance as more important for credibility than potentially
hurting someone's feelings with exclusion.
And I agree: the way to build strength in the movement is perhaps more
horizontal than vertical---including, as others have brilliantly
observed, organizations working on related issues.
This keeps the focus on the cultural context which is critical.
- I *love* the work that Jackson is doing and greatly respect him. But I
have a followup question to the Republican party 'big tent' analogy:
Yes, they won elections, but it seems that the Far Right now has a
stranglehold on the party, their ideas have been mainstreamed, and they
have redefined conservatism (as extremist).
For that reason, I am fearful of the process of compromising. I think
the integrity of the movement is at risk.
This is a similar problem that feminism has tried to resolve (and not
successfully, in my opinion).
Perhaps the issue of compromise, who to 'include,' is one that all movements
have to negotiate at some point.
- One more thought: I maintain that marketing and media strategy is
absolutely *critical* for any success.
We need to figure out how to make more images that redefine masculinity;
show how love/sex could look in an egalitarian society; and
ads/commercials that promote a different idea about men in relation to
women.
An important point in the marketing should be that rape/domestic
violence are *men's* issues.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving has done a stellar job making drunk
driving 'uncool.' Ads/commercials are less "confrontational" and a
powerful tool in changing what's 'acceptable.' Hell, it's worked for the
other side to promote sexism!
I'm impressed by the thoughtfulness and commitment of the people on this
list!
Regards,
Kim McCarten
Action Coalition for Media Education and Merge (online 'zine)
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:29:21 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Response to Donald Gault (from Chuck Derry)
Message-ID: <3EC39631.7030600@mencanstoprape.org>
I have been working with men who batter and training others on issues of
domestic and sexual assault since 1983 and I am afraid I could not
disagree more with Mr. Gault's assessment of why violence occurs as he
outlines in his 5/14 message.
I do not believe those who use violence routinely do so because of their
own psychological sense of powerlessness, shame or humiliation (think
our current U.S. administration). Violence is a time honored tool used
by millions of individuals and thousands of governments to subjugate
individuals and whole populations. I think it is extremely problematic
to reduce these historical institutional realities to individual
psychological needs or impairments. When men are challenged about their
violence, that challenge can easily be perceived as a caustic attack on
them ("they are suffering too") rather than an assertion of human
beings' (women's) rights to live free of the threat or actuality of
violence. In my view, the beliefs articulated in Mr. Gault's message
also ignore the intent and effect of men's violence against women.
This of course is the challenge of the big tent. How do we come to a
common philosophical agreement about why so many men, all over the
globe, assault, humiliate, degrade, and oppress women? What fundamental
agreements do we need amongst us to work together collaboratively to
stop the institutions (cultural, economic, governmental etc) of male
assault and sexism? Our beliefs regarding the causes of the violence
will guide our interventions.
While I assume Mr. Gault and I could work together on these issues, we
would probably need to find where our commonalities lay and what action
we could take that both of us could support. We'd also probably need to
have some type of agreement about debating these issues.
Minimally I believe we should 1) identify men's violence as the
foundation of the sexist domination men enjoy world wide, 2) clarify
that sexism provides men with benefits and privileges they take for
granted and that those benefits come at great cost to women and
children's lives, 3) acknowledge that the sexist abuse men perpetrate on
women is much more conscious and intentional than many men individually
or as a group have been willing to admit, and 4) acknowledge that our
willingness to participate in sexist behaviors either as active
participants or bystanders is directly related to the benefits we
receive from sexism. Our task, it seems to me, is ultimately to convince
men and male institutions that those benefits must be relinquished and
replaced by a system of justice that dismantles all structures of
oppression.
Regarding a request about any work done legislatively. I have been
involved in some legislative organizing with men statewide to support
legislation put forward by our state's battered women's and sexual
assault coalitions. Anyone interested in more information on that can
contact me through the moderators.
Thanks.
Chuck Derry
Gender Violence Institute
Clearwater, MN
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:32:07 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:32:07 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Linda Hutchinson (from Dave Thomas)
Message-ID: <3EC396D7.8060702@mencanstoprape.org>
I quickly would like to say that this discussion, though overdue, is
good. I believe the words of Dr. Martin L. King when he said that, "The
arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice." We
have a ways to go, but I believe we are better off than we were
yesterday and are headed in the right direction. We must continue to
strive forward and tap into that segment that sit idly by disagreeing
about the way women in our society are treated yet never raise their
voices against the oppression. During the civil rights struggle Dr.
King use to say that he was more disappointed by the appalling silence
of the good people than by the evil of the bad people. We must bring or
brothers out of the dark into the light.
Dave Thomas M.S. (retired police officer)
Academic Program Coordinator
Domestic Violence Education Program
Johns Hopkins University
Division of Public Safety Leadership
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:34:41 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:34:41 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: perceived powerlessness (from Kim McCarten)
Message-ID: <3EC39771.2070504@mencanstoprape.org>
I have to respectfully disagree: I think violence arises out of power
with a *feeling* of powerlessness---and focusing on the shame and
humiliation the prepetrator feels is how we get, I believe, the
placating behavior from the group that's attacked.
White men have to work much harder to gain credibility because of the
position white men have in the West---and what that has meant to women.
A completely nonviolent approach from women towards fighting sexism will
not end women's subjugation.
Kim McCarten
ACME and Merge
Chicago
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:37:56 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:37:56 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent from Ken Snyder (from Lois Gunderson)
Message-ID: <3EC39834.4070606@mencanstoprape.org>
I would respectfully like to submit the six principles embodied in the
pledge taken by 100 Men with a Plan/Initiative for Violence-Free
Families (in Minneapolis), whose names are then placed in a local
newspaper ad. These words were written by a group of African American
men who live/ work in north Minneapolis neighborhoods and they are
taking the lead for this effort for all men who live here. The
principles embodied in the ceremonial pledge they take are as follows:
To CHALLENGE and ELIMINATE any abusive behaviors in whatever forms they
take.
To EMPOWER individuals to come together and develop community responses
to violence and oppression.
To UNDERSTAND men's unique training to perpetuate violence and challenge
ourselves to unlearn that training.
To PROVIDE young people with the resources and encouragement they need
to create violence-free relationships and communities.
To PROMOTE a variety of powerful and effective alternatives to violence
in social and personal situations.
To MODEL, in all areas, the powerful role that men can take in breaking
the cycle of violence.
Lois Gunderson
Initiative for Violence-Free Families/Family & Children's Service
Lois.gunderson@fcsmn.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 13:41:12 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:41:12 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Donald Gault (from Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <3EC398F8.2080203@mencanstoprape.org>
I think that both Ghandi and Dr. King are wonderful examples of men who
led important, non-violent movements for social change -- and who had
seriously problematic relationships with women in their lives.
Were he alive, would I challenge Dr. King's credentials and sincerity to
do THIS work? Yes -- and if he demonstrated an understanding of why
his exploitative and disrespectful sexual relationships with women were
inappropriate and needed to change, my concerns might be allayed.
We are addressing men's violence in relationships, primarily against
women -- correct? Thus, one question seems to be: how do we ensure
that the men who join in this "Big Tent" are committed to relinquishing
their own male privilege (to control, to bash, to rape, and not to
consider this 'their' problem) and challenge other men to do the same?
kelly anderson
Madison, WI, USA
rccdirector@tds.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 16:47:28 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:47:28 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] The big tent approach (from Roberta Rieck)
Message-ID: <000201c31b01$ac3f6960$696f510c@jimmy88>
I have been uplifted by the discussion so far. I am inspired by the
work that you all do. It is just fascinating to me that we can have a
discussion like this that includes people from around the world.
I am a lawyer who provides civil legal services to low income people.
The majority of my clients are victims of domestic violence who have
turned to the civil courts for assistance in divorce or paternity cases.
My clients are usually seeking permanent separation from the abuser and
custody orders that provide safety for themselves and their children.
The frustration in my work is twofold. The laws related to custody
issues in my state do not take domestic violence seriously. And - many
of the judges who make the decisions for the families do not understand
domestic violence which leads to court orders that perpetuate the abuse
and do not provide for the safety of victims and children.
So, my question is - How do we bring the decision-makers into the Big
Tent?? The message that domestic violence is wrong and that it won't
be tolerated has to be sent consistently from all forums that abusive
men have contact with. We try to educate legislators and judges about
the impact of their work upon surviving victims and children with
seemingly little success. We have local coordinated community response
organizations and a statewide coalition that works on domestic violence
issues on several fronts. These efforts appear to have had a positive
impact on the few legislators or judges who are involved. How can we
bring other legislators and judges into this discussion and under the
Big Tent?
Roberta M. Rieck
Legal Action of Wisconsin, Inc.
Milwaukee, WI
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:04:09 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:04:09 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] On defining masculinity (from Chris Huffine)
Message-ID: <000f01c31b04$0309d120$696f510c@jimmy88>
With regards to the discussion of what defining what is a "real man"...
In my opinion, the problem with traditional masculinity, and sexism in
general, is that it dichotomizes human qualities into two separate,
distinct, relatively non-overlapping groups of "male" and "female"
qualities. There is nothing inherently wrong with any of those
qualities, it is the discouragement/blocking of each gender from the
other half of the other gender's qualities that is the problem. Every
man and woman should be able to define themselves by freely picking from
the entire range of human qualities. I believe the reason why the vast
majority of violence is done by men is that there are certain
"masculine" qualities that encourage violence (e.g., need to be in
control, detachment from feelings, emphasis on achievement/external
definitions of self-worth) and that there are certain "feminine"
qualities that discourage violence (e.g., compassion, emphasis on the
relational). So to me the goal needs to be to encourage all people to
freely define their own sense of self, drawing from both pools of
qualities. Psychological research done decades ago found that the most
well-adjusted individuals of both genders tended to be more
androgynous--having a mix of both masculine and feminine qualities. The
least emotionally healthy individuals tended to fall on the more extreme
ends of the masculine/feminine continuum. I think part of the allure of
traditional gender roles is that, in heterosexual romantic
relationships, they help to make it clear, from the start (without
knowing anything about the other person) what each person in the
relationship should be doing/is responsible for. I think one reason why
gay/lesbian relationships are so threatening to people is that they are
a clear challenge to the idea that the two individuals need to conform
to traditional gender roles to make a relationship work. This is all
very relevant to stopping men's abuse since I believe a key to
individual men becoming non-abusive means becoming more connected with
some traditionally feminine qualities such as emotional awareness and
expression (which are prerequisites for empathy and compassion), a view
of others as being allies and partners, and a elevated level of
self-awareness and expressivity.
Chris Huffine, Psy.D.
Chuffine@pacifier.com
Men's Resource Center
12 SE 14th Ave.
Portland, OR 97124
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:07:33 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:07:33 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent from Jackson Katz (from Carmen Retzlaff)
Message-ID: <001601c31b04$7a66c340$696f510c@jimmy88>
On the big tent: I think that the anti-porn activism in the US has included
some substantial work on getting groups with traditionally very divergent
overall views (women's rights activists and conservative religious groups)
to work together on a specific issue. I'd love to hear from anyone who has
been involved in that work on what they've learned.
--
Carmen Retzlaff
Austin TX
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:10:31 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:10:31 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] A few thoughts on the big tent (from Chris Huffine)
Message-ID: <001701c31b04$e4b45af0$696f510c@jimmy88>
With regards to the "big tent" concept, I have a few thoughts that I
have not yet seen mentioned. First, I think that perhaps we're focusing
too much on the symptom rather than the problem. To me domestic violence
and men's violence is more the symptom of the larger problem of an
orientation towards power involving taking it from others and guarding
against others taking it from them. I believe the key issue is educating
people about power and the differences between "power over" (which is
the norm in most cultures, particularly among men) and "personal power"
which is about drawing power from within. One book that does a good job
of identifying each of those orientations is "The Verbally Abusive
Relationship" by Patricia Evans. To stop domestic violence as well as
other forms of men's violence I believe we need to see this as being a
"power disorder" and educate people about alternative ways to view and
think of power. Likewise, in looking at ourselves, we need to consider
not only whether or how we have been abusive, but more broadly how we
use our power in our interactions with others. Do we use it to over
power them or do we use it to empower ourselves?
A related point, that was briefly made by Anja Nekes, I want to further
emphasize. I am concerned that it seems that many people in this
discussion seem to think or imply that domestic violence primarily
involves physical abuse or that we need to be focusing on stopping
physical abuse. I think most domestic violence ultimately involves
emotional and psychological abuse and that we need to more heavily focus
on that. In the 10+ years that I have been working with abusive men and
victims, that has become increasingly clear to me. If there is too much
focus on physical abuse the men just intensify their emotional abuse and
many victims are even less likely to consider themselves victims because
there isn't any physical abuse occurring. Again, focusing on this issue
as being more of a power disorder addresses this.
I think another key aspect of having a "big tent" is that we need to
talk with people, not to them and we need to speak with them in their
"own language". In other words, I need to approach the issue of domestic
violence differently depending on the common qualities and culture of
the group I'm working with. One of the best and easiest ways this can be
accomplished is by having people talk "with their own". While you may be
thinking of culturally specific interventions, such as communities of
color, I'm also thinking about other less frequently identified cultures
as well, such as specific religious communities, or occupations. For
example, a victim advocate speaking to a room full of police officers is
unlikely to have the same impact unless she is speaking in a way that
reflects an awareness of their culture--the language used, how it is
used, etc. That's why having well-informed police speaking to their own
may go over better. I have found the same to be true with judges and
therapists, to just give two other examples.
Finally, in terms of differences among the various people under the big
tent, the emphasis needs to be on the common mission of stopping men's
violence. While there may be significant differences among us, to focus
too much or too long on those differences undermines our ability to work
together on what is bringing us all together--addressing men's violence.
In doing so it's important that we focus not on what OTHERS should or
should not be doing, but on what we should be doing ourselves (advice I
regularly give to the abusive men I work with). We can certainly share
our thoughts and perspectives with others, but we ultimately need to
respect their right to define for themselves how they want to intervene
to help stop men's violence.
Chris Huffine
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:18:21 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:18:21 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Video Games from Ben Atherton Zeman (from Kelly Bentley)
Message-ID: <001a01c31b05$fcdb1af0$696f510c@jimmy88>
The infamous video games....
I guess, in Grand Theft Auto II, you get points for
sleeping with the prostitute. During which time you
see a car bouncing up and down and creaking. You also
get additional points for killing her.
I feel these games are hideous. I'd like to know how
it would be perceived if the game featured doing the
same thing to an African American male. I find it
absurd this is done to women and am concerned about the
after affects it has on young males.
My future brother in law was going to buy the game for
his 10 year old brother. We had a talk about it and he
had no idea. He just knew it was a game his brother
wanted. He ended up not buying the game.
My son also wants it and it will never be allowed in
our house. When we talked about why, he was like,
'it's just a game'. But when we talked more about it,
he understood; but was still irritated that he couldn't
have it.
I'm not sure how to address the 'it's just a game'
issue; or 'it's just a song' when it comes to Eminem or
50 Cent. Any thoughts?
Kelly Bentley
Relief After Violent Encounter, Inc.
Michigan, USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:22:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:22:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Big Tent from Kelly Anderson (from Donald Gault)
Message-ID: <001b01c31b06$8f779b40$696f510c@jimmy88>
I am really glad to see the differing ideas and beliefs that are being
shared in this online forum. I guess I am not sure whether there is a =
tent
big enough for the divergence and passion of beliefs that we all carry. =
I think one common area is clearly that we all care VERY deeply about =
ending
violence, and have VERY strongly held beliefs based on personal and
professional experience. I for one would give anything to be in a =
"tent"
with Dr. Martin Luther King, and would also welcome the opportunity to =
be in
that same tent with all people committed to ending violence, regardless =
of
the differences in our beliefs about its causes and proper
prevention/intervention responses; in fact I welcome the opportunity to
listen to and learn from others. =20
I would also welcome people who have not lived their lives perfectly,
because if that is a necessity for admission I know very few people who
would be eligible for entry, myself included. But, as someone else has
said, we will certainly need to learn how to respectfully and caringly =
air
and listen to our differences if we are to ever be in that tent =
together.
Peace
Donald Gault
Saint Paul -Ramsey County Public health
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:25:15 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:25:15 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] In response to Roberta M. Rieck (from Merri Sullivan)
Message-ID: <001c01c31b06$f37460b0$696f510c@jimmy88>
How do we bring legislators and judges into the Big Tent? We vote in to
office supportive people and we support them once they are there. We bring
the issue to campaign agendas. For those already there, you continue to try
to educate and lobby. Expose their biases in the media when appropriate. We
replace them at the first opportunity. We need qualified women (like
yourself maybe Ms. Rieck) and men supportive of women to run for office.
Merri Sullivan
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:54:11 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:54:11 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Getting support from politicians (from Rhea Becker)
Message-ID: <002801c31b0a$fe2beba0$696f510c@jimmy88>
I have made it a practice to question candidates for local office about
their stance on rape. Last year, I attended an informal organizing meeting
for Robert Reich for Governor. A man named Bill Allan, who was running for
State Representative for my district, was present. He handed me a sheet
indicating where he stood on various important issues. There was nothing
on sexual assault or rape. So I turned to him and asked, "So what are
you doing about rape?" He sat dumbfounded for nearly a minute (I'm not
kidding; it was incredibly uncomfortable) with nothing to say. He ended
up saying -- I can't believe he admitted this -- "I haven't actually
given it much thought." I was floored. How could someone who is running
for public office admit that he's clueless on this epidemic?
In another instance, I approached Elaine Rigas, a young woman who was
running for Boston city councilor. She had no answer either. But at
least she asked me what I thought she could do. It's lame, but it's a
start. How can rape be so far off the radar screens of the public, and
especially people who are supposedly running for office to do good?
Rhea Becker
Feminist Anti-pornography Activist
Boston, Mass.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 17:59:18 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:59:18 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] compromise, philosophy and other thoughts (from Susan Marine)
Message-ID: <002901c31b0b$b709f860$696f510c@jimmy88>
Jackson Katz asked: Are the compromises worth it? When do ends justify =
the
means? Can we reduce men's violence against women and children=20
without confronting competing ideological perspectives on the causes of
men's violence? Is it possible to table some of those differences -
as many successful political movements have done with core =
constituencies
- in the service of achieving more social and political clout?=20
I've been giving a lot of thought lately to the issue of compromise-- in
ideology, in approach, in sensibility. I've almost always worked in =
violence
prevention in Universities, so I've gotten increasingly comfortable with =
the
idea that there may be more than one ideology appropriate to working on
ending violence against women-- there's the approach/philosophy espoused =
by
feminist activists, the approach/philosophy espoused by public health
practitioners, and still others espoused by sociologists, political
scientists, and legal theorists. While there may be some overlap in
ideas, there are most definitely places of disjuncture, and while that
used to make me uncomfortable, more and more I am able to 'stomach' that
tension. Almost every day, I have the ideas I have formulated=20
challenged by *someone*-- a professor, a scientist, a lawyer. That
doesn't bother me-- it keeps me fresh, and on my toes about what I am
talking about and what information I use to back up my ideas.
That being said, much of what we typically profess in the movement (and =
I
know we could debate the idea that there is 'one' discernable =
'movement',
or rather a plethora of many movements) is theory we have developed over
years of observing women who are survivors of men's violence-- I am
always surprised by how little I (and others) really understand about
victimization, or perpetration, and the characteristics of perpetrators
of violence, their habits and the things that may motivate them to
change. Part of the problem is that it is difficult to study this
population when so few are held accountable, and so few are willing to =
be
studied in any meaningful way.=20
But I would argue that as part of the big tent approach, we have an
obligation to keep trying, to keep focusing our understanding of what
makes some men batter/rape and not others. I very much believe that the
media and cultural influences shape behavior, so how do some (most) men
become immune to their damaging messages while a minority wreak havoc on
the world? We may wholeheartedly believe that battering and rape are
caused by the societal influences that shape masculinity and the quest
for dominance, but I think we need to continue to study this and work on
developing strategies for responding to it. Our current strategies are
often perceived as alienating-- I'm not excusing men who resist being
part of the movement, simply wondering out loud if there aren't creative
ways we can help men see how much better their lives will also be when =
we
end the power/dominance paradigm once and for all. People are motivated
by self-interest-- not entirely, but certainly partially. We in the
movement are motivated by self interest as well. Can we tap into these
root foundations of people's psyches more effectively? This is what I
wonder, and what these many approaches tell me is that indeed, there is
more to be decided and more to be better understood.
Susan Marine
Harvard University Sexual Assault Prevention
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 18:17:42 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:17:42 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] In response to Merri Sullivan (from Barbara Lambert)
Message-ID: <003601c31b0e$472b0680$696f510c@jimmy88>
I run a prototype domestic violence intervention class in New Mexico for =
the
perpetrators of this type of abuse. The state does not currently =
mandate
treatment of these individuals. I have managed, with the very strong
support of the local women's shelter director, to keep strong lines of
communication open with the district attorney's office, district and
magistrate courts, public defenders office and with probation and parole
departments. We tend to include them in our program reviews and =
education
so that we remain familiar with each other. The most recent review was =
this
past February and was attended by a judge, the family court =
commissioner,
probation/parole officers, and the public defender. We worked out a =
fair
number of kinks in the system we are trying to generalize to the state.
Most of the folks here seem quite hungry for this type of big tent =
approach.
Barbara Lambert, LISW
blambert@rmchcs.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 18:49:52 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:49:52 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: engaging politicians (from Linda Hutchinson)
Message-ID: <004001c31b12$c601bdb0$696f510c@jimmy88>
Rape is not an issue for our public officials because they are not in
the profession we are all in................they don't realize the scope
of the problem unless they have experienced it or talked to people like
us. We are responsible for informing them and keeping them informed!
Peace,
Linda Hutchinson, Advocate (at a Rape Crisis center)
South Eastern Kentucky
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 18:56:18 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:56:18 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent from Carmen Retzlaff (from Valerie L'Herrou)
Message-ID: <004101c31b13$ac0dcce0$696f510c@jimmy88>
That's an important point, Carmen, but for a different reason than you
may be considering.
for me, it's rather scary that feminist groups and religious-right
groups have worked together on the porn issue. the religious right is
not interested in furthering the rights of women. They are anti-sex in
general, and anti-female sexuality in particular. To me, this
partnership is a dangerous one.
Feminist groups are against sexual exploitation, and the
commodification of their sexuality for the enrichment of men, as well
as the degradation of women that much (perhaps most) pornography
portrays, and furthers. Religious right groups really don't care if
women are exploited, commodified, or degraded--as long as these things
happen in the "moral" context of marriage. They are against erotic
content of any kind--even if it was created by, celebrated, and
empowered women. I want to further the right of women to have sexual
agency and freedom of choice of expression of their sexuality, NOT
further the double standard and the concept that women should really
not enjoy their sexuality.
I don't think that the syllogism "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
is a valid one. I wouldn't like to see the "big tent" concept include
people who would really against much of our core beliefs and values,
just because we share one thing in common.
No, we're not all perfect, and we don't all share the same views about
everything. Believe me, I'm not for any kind of "group think." But we
should really be on the same page when it comes to the core beliefs
about this work. Ending male violence, while maintaining male
privilege--a core concept of the religious right--might sound ok. But
in reality, these are mutually exclusive. Trying to hew to a belief
system like that just maintains the status quo--which we all know leads
us nowhere. We need those under the tent to understand that male
privilege, even when it seems benign, is where violence against women
begins. We are not asking men to "protect" us poor weak females. We're
asking them to own their own problems, and work with us.
Valerie L'Herrou
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 19:57:23 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:57:23 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] James Gilligan's work on violence (from Molly Dragiewicz)
Message-ID: <005801c31b1c$36190730$696f510c@jimmy88>
James' Gilligan's work on violence (Gilligan, J. (2001). Preventing
Violence. New York: Thames and Hudson. Gilligan, J. (1997). Violence:
Reflections on a National Epidemic. New York: Vintage Books.)
is extremely useful, but it is important to recognize that it is
research on MALE violence. The patterns he talks about (using violence
to ward off shame and maintain a specific notion of independence and
control) don't seem to apply to women according to what the research
tells us about women and men's use of violence. Gilligan's books are
about violence and masculinity, but they do seem to universalize in some
of the misleading ways that are common to research on violence and
crime.
This is a great example of why it is important to recognize the gender
in gendered violence. Violence may be a human problem insofar as all
humans have some connection to violence, but the dynamics and patterns
very much demonstrate sex differences which are linked to normative
gender expectations.
As Dobash, Dobash, Cavanagh and Lewis point out
(Dobash, R. E., Dobash, R. P., Cavanagh, K., & Lewis, R. (2000).
Changing Violent Men. Thousand Oaks: Sage.),
each intervention needs to be tailored to the dynamics of the specific
form of violence being addressed. Evaluation research also needs to be
capable of providing information about that particular kind of violence.
Women and men's violence, violence in same sex or heterosexual couples,
intimate terrorism, situational couple violence, violent resistance, and
mutual violent control have different dynamics and require distinct
interventions (See Michael Johnson and Kathleen Ferraro's article if you
are not familiar with these distinctions-- Johnson, M. P., & Ferraro, K.
(2000). Research on Domestic Violence in the 1990s: Making Distinctions.
Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62, 948-963).
Molly Dragiewicz
Women's Studies and Cultural Studies
George Mason University
mdragiew@gmu.edu
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mdragiew
http://www.cavnet.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 20:38:31 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:38:31 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] re: Valerie L'Herrou comments about the religious right (from Jeremy Simons)
Message-ID: <006001c31b21$f36e2ae0$696f510c@jimmy88>
I think we need to be careful about putting all religious right (lets =
not
use religious right, its more of a political label, try conservative
Christian) in a box and speaking for them on what they believe. I can =
say
that the comments about them not caring "if women are exploited,
commidified, or degraded....are against erotic content of any=20
kind..." are not true. I know because I grew up in the religious right. =
I think this discussion will be furthered by acknowledging that social
privilege and power are not the sole sources of violence. It is
multifaceted stemming from numerous internal, developmental, cultural =
and
environmental sources.=20
Acknowledging this will expand the tent because, for example, many
conservative Christians emphasize an internal source of violence -"sin". =
If
you allow individual, internal "sin" as at least part of the =
explanation, a
very constructive approach can happen because it can make violence =
highly
personalized and force individual accountability and responsibility for =
a
person's sin. This type of openness would allow conservative Christians =
an
appropriate place in the big tent. =20
There are vast resources and people with in the conservative religious
population that could be motivated on this issue. However, they are =
often
put off by a discussion that revolves mostly around social causes of
violence that academics and groups on the "left" tend to. That is a =
problem
with this discussion as well, and I think we don't have a lot of
conservative Christians involved as we could. =20
For example the World Evangelical Fellowship, an international =
association
of evangelical churches, has take a strong stand against violence =
against
women. This is more amazing than most people realize, because a number =
of
traditional non-western cultures represented in this fellowship are more
oppressive than in America. So in fact, non-American evangelicals are
probably more countercultural and further ahead than American ones. But
let's open up the tent, invite them to the table, and start talking...
Jeremy Simons
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 20:43:35 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:43:35 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Getting support from politicians from Rhea Becker (From Rus Funk)
Message-ID: <006101c31b22$a8da4260$696f510c@jimmy88>
In response to Rhea's comments and Merri's question, it seems to me that =
we
can learn some lessons about how to get these issues (rape, domestic
violence, stalking, pornography,...) on the radar screen of politicians
from the early AIDS movement. ACT UP and QUEER Nation took to the =
streets
to embarrass and cajole politicians to address these issues -- working =
in a
parallel manner with more mainstream organizations that worked "within" =
the
system.
I have often wondered where our (esp. the men of this movement) street
work is. Part of what it will take for politicians and legislators to
"get it" and begin addressing these issues is when they can't not =
address
these issues. It is up to us as voters and as the constituency of these
folks to make them care. And Hooray for you, Rhea for your efforts in =
just
that manner. You at least made them think -- you forced them to ask the
questions. We can all take some leadership from you about how to make =
them
care.
I think it important that the grassroots efforts be done strategically =
and
in full cooperation with our local and state programs and coalitions, =
but
it is an aspect that needs to happen. As does getting more involved in =
the
process. If we were to add to our agenda working on the election =
committee
of some candidate, we can improve our chances of at least ensuring that =
that
candidate has a position and raises the issues.
We, in the US are heading into what will undoubtedly be yet another =
really
ugly presidential campaign -- seems like a really good time for us to =
begin
mobilizing and organizing to make sure that the issues of sexist =
violence
are not once again ignored as an electoral issue.
Rus Funk
rusfunk@starpower.net
Louisville, KY USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 21:55:26 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:55:26 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Video Games from Ben Atherton Zeman (from Ellyne Bell)
Message-ID: <000001c31b2c$b23a44e0$696f510c@jimmy88>
I am intrigued by this discussion on video games and young males. I have =
a
14 year old son, and he was given Grand Theft Auto II as a gift. He =
played
it continually for a few weeks. (all of his friends also have this game) =
We
discussed in some depth my concerns about the game... he told me that he =
and
his friends understood, and could choose to play the game without =
assaulting
prostitutes, etc. Still, he knows that I do not approve of the game. =
One
day, I asked him, "you are always changing the clothes this guy is
wearing...can you change his skin color or make him a female?" His reply =
was
, "no, mom, really, who but a white guy would act this way?" =
Fortunately,
his interest in the game waned fairly quickly. I feel that the pressures =
of
the culture that we live in are overwhelming at times. My son has grown =
up
with me working in this movement, he has been to take back the night
marches, participated in a violence prevention theater project and =
always
understood my commitment to this work. Still, he is not immune.
I am deeply disturbed by the messages that these games send young males. =
I
wanted to make the game disappear, but I am glad that I let it take its
natural course, and trusted my son to be responsible. However, I know =
that
not every child that plays these games has another context in which to
compare the realities.. this is perhaps what is most frightening.
Ellyne Bell
Executive Director
California Alliance Against Domestic Violence
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 15 23:17:47 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:17:47 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] media and the surrounding 'support system' (from Kim McCarten)
Message-ID: <000301c31b38$332e3290$696f510c@jimmy88>
It is dangerous to underestimate the effect media and popular culture =
have
on shaping thoughts and impacting behavior. We are surrounded by this
influence and not until we are educated to look at it critically and in =
an
informed way can we begin to blunt its effect.
It is a continuum of effect---most men are *not* immune to sexist images =
and
messages; they just don't all rape (on one end of the spectrum); but =
they
might have a business meeting at a strip club, stand by and say nothing =
when
a friend verbally abusing his girlfriend, or spend money in support of
people or industries that pimp/stereotype women.
And regarding rape and violence against women, the statistics are *way* =
too
high to suggest that only a small number of men are involved at this end =
of
the continuum anyway.
Jackson once pointed out that there is a whole system supporting the
rapist/batterer: co-workers, family members, friends who know about the
behavior and say or do *nothing.*
We have to consider this group in our strategies: they are responsible =
as
well, and in some ways, might be easier to reach.
With regard to government/legislators/judges, we must *must* get more =
women
and people of color elected. Our equality and safety needs to be in our =
own
hands.
Kim McCarten
Action Coalition for Media Education and Merge
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 15:09:26 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:09:26 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] men's role in violence prevention (from Bill West)
Message-ID: <000601c31bbd$29e2e390$6277510c@jimmy88>
I am the only male volunteer in a Domestic Violence Victims Assistance
Program (DVVAP)currently serving five towns in the Boston area. I joined =
the
program because I believe much more can be done to prevent violence,
particularly when there have been previous incidents or danger signs.
It sickens me to read about cases where a restraint order has been =
issued
and yet the situation escalates and results in more violence and often
death. I am also sickened by reports of child abuse and school or =
workplace
violence - and believe the way to broaden the tent is to focus on the =
need
to develop more effective violence prevention interventions. I'd like
prevention programs to have funds to provide ankle bracelets to monitor =
high
risk perpetrators or provide police protection when a restraining order =
has
been issued. I'd also like to see outreach programs to work with =
families -
recognizing that family dynamics such as mental health and substance =
abuse
often make it necessary to focus on the family as a whole.=20
I understand the interest expressed by many in this forum on =
understanding
and changing male attitudes and cultural messages condoning abusive and
demeaning behavior towards women, but I personally believe this type of
discussion and debate distracts from the more critical need to provide
protection and interventions where serious physical violence is likely =
to
occur - and that we need to recognize that victims and perpetrators may =
be
male or female - adult or child.=20
I believe there is a need for more education efforts focused on the =
problems
of violence in our homes, workplaces and schools, and not narrowly =
focused
on males as perpetrators and women as victims. I think we also need to =
put
pressure on our legislature to provide this type of funding and that =
more
men may become involved when the focus is on these issues.=20
=20
Bill West
Domestic Violence Victims Assistance Program
http://www.concordnet.org/cpd/DVVAP%20main.htm
DVVAP@yahoogroups.com
Acton MA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 15:24:39 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:24:39 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: compromise, philosophy Susan Marine (from Mark Bergeron-Naper)
Message-ID: <000901c31bbf$44fe3600$6277510c@jimmy88>
First, the issue of inclusion. The women's movement(s) generally works =
on
the assumption of inclusion of all voices, though initially only white
women's voices. Certainly, there has been a great deal of struggle both =
to
have the voices of non-white women in the feminist movement and to have
meaningful participation of women from diverse backgrounds involved in =
the
feminist movement. Having men involved in this effort naturally raises =
many
red flags, for many women as well as men. Are men's voices going to be =
too
loud? Are they taking credit for the work that women have done for =
decades?
Are they accountable?
Men are probably going to have to be trusted to do work with men around
these issues and are going to have to be accountable to women while =
doing
so. But there will probably be instances when some men who were thought =
to
be "safe" men are going to be found to be otherwise. Despite any best
efforts to screen out, in order to maintain credibility or to ensure a
commonality of belief, we are not going to make the big tent progress =
that
we are discussing unless we allow men to make mistakes in moving forward
with men. The best that can be done, and seems to be happening, is to =
have
men who care about the issue lead it. Men's accountability to women =
will be
key in one large tent.
Having the core belief of dismantling male privilege could be great, but
endemic to stopping male privilege is having men involved, which is both =
the
problem and the solution. Men doing this work are going to need to =
address
their own biases and social/cultural baggage, address it in other men, =
and
be willing to hear and bear witness to women's anger at them and other =
men
as well. This will be hard for some men, but important to all women. =
It is
not man-hating to address men's complicity in male privilege, whether as
participants in violence against women or as bystanders. It is probably =
the
biggest and hardest piece, though.
Another piece to address is the idea that some men are "immune" to the
social factors that lead some men to be violent while most are not. The
question "how do some (most) men become immune to [media and cultural
influences'] damaging messages while a minority wreak havoc on the =
world?"
takes for granted that most men are also victimized by the same culture,
though in a different way than women. I don't know any men who were not
receive intense social pressure to conform to the masculine "ideal", if =
not
actually assaulted. Some men accept that they and other men need to =
meet
this standard and that women must meet their gender role requirements, =
by
force if necessary. While most men don't adopt this strategy for an =
array
of reasons, all men are affected by it and it shapes the context of =
men's
violence. But this can be the common thread that men and women share =
that
some people have been talking about. bell hooks makes this point
beautifully in "Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center" (South End =
Press,
2000). Most men have more in common with most women than with the few =
men
who have the most power. The vast majority of men are damaged by the
existing power dynamic, as women are (though men certainly experience it
differently and generally to a far lesser degree). Can this be a tent =
pole?
Mark Bergeron-Naper
Massachusetts Department of Public Health
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 15:27:46 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:27:46 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: men's role in violence prevention from Bill West (from Terry Wood)
Message-ID: <000a01c31bbf$b4649520$6277510c@jimmy88>
I would be interested in hearing from men already involved. I would like =
to
know ways they feel included and encouraged and ways they feel =
discouraged
and minimized by the way the tent is currently set up.
I think it is important to hear from the folks we are trying to get =
involved
and listen to their needs and interests. We can all learn.
Thanks
T. Wood
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 18:52:50 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:52:50 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] On coalitions and sexual violence (from Claire Riley)
Message-ID: <001901c31bdc$5a5ee770$7a78510c@jimmy88>
Greetings!
It has taken me this long to catch up on all of the reading, but it has =
been
worth it! What a great discussion! What follows are a variety of =
thoughts.
I am an outreach educator at a sexual assault program, and have only =
been on
the job a couple of years, so many of you have many more years of =
thought=20
put into these issues.
On compromises and new constituencies: as an outreach worker, I go =
wherever=20
I am invited, to whoever will listen, whoever is concerned. I DO have=20
hesitancies, biases, stereotypes and plenty of situations where I am=20
uncomfortable. Where I live, faith communities are very vital in our=20
community, and I am not a member! My politics and personal beliefs fall =
far=20
away in many ways. But the challenge of coalition building is in finding =
the
places where there is agreement, right? (although I, too, have been=20
disturbed by the feminist/fundamentalist anti-porn collaboration) And I=20
really NEED to work with our faith communities! They are critical to the =
health of our impoverished, depressed, racially divided county. I really =
appreciated the case study on the faith-focused Center.
I have to push through the places where I am uncomfortable in order to =
grow.
That means people don't always say things the way I would say them. =
heck,=20
they don't even think them the way I would think them. But if we truly =
need=20
EVERYONE to do this work, then I have the responsibility to learn to =
work=20
with everyone, or we are sunk. If I preach respect and tolerance, i have =
to=20
practice it, too.
And it is definitely not easy. How do i go in to a group of migrant =
women=20
from Mexico (I am anglo) and talk about their right to emergency=20
contraception following a rape? (The talking is easy, the responses are =
the=20
hard part!)
Some ideas here I have really liked: using media nationally to spread=20
messages, and the men's resource line. The idea that we need to present =
anti-violence as a personal, rather than political issue to men. (Most=20
Americans simply DON'T do politics anymore, or rather, they think they=20
don't). I agree with the idea that people are motivated by =
self-interest,=20
and that many men do not see themselves as perpetrators.
As someone who has loved men who have committed violence against me, I =
fully
believe that many men who are perpetrators would like to change. They =
were=20
full of self-hatred and shame. Those men are not just recipients of=20
services, but future RESOURCES. When they begin to heal, to change their =
behavior, they can become new leaders of other men. We need them.
We really need men in this movement to be involved with that healing. I =
feel
like any campaign have as a component an effort to reach men who have=20
suffered from witnessing d.v. as children, from child abuse, and from =
sexual
violence. These men must be helped by other men. This is prevention.
Many of the intervention programs that have been discussed have talked =
about
working with men who batter. There has not been more discussion of male=20
sexual offenders. Resources for those men are far and few between.=20
Frequently, they must go through the courts in order to have access to =
any=20
services. It needs to be way easier for these men to get help.
I also have a question. I really thought I knew a lot about men's lives, =
but
realized I wasn't sure about the answer to this question. There seems to =
be=20
a consensus that men know when another man is abusing an intimate =
partner.=20
certainly men are witnesses to sexual harassment of women. But do men =
really
discuss sexual violence? Obviously, some sexual assaults involve groups =
of=20
men, either assaulting or witnessing. But there are many that do not. Do =
men
go talk about this to other men? I kind of doubt it. It is hard to =
confront=20
this kind of violence as much.
Thank you,
Claire Riley
Cumberland County NJ
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 19:33:40 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:33:40 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent from Valerie L'Herrou (from Dave McIntire)
Message-ID: <001a01c31be2$0ed2ca00$7a78510c@jimmy88>
In Valerie L'Herrou's post, she raises some concerns about welcoming the
"conservative" church into the tent. That has me troubled. I used to be =
on
staff at a couple fairly conservative churches and now am a community
activist in the dv/sa arena. Who would have thought? I'm where I am =
today
because I was invited into the tent as the result of a conversation with
someone who looked past my religious pedigree and convictions and saw
someone who cared about others. I stayed in the tent because my heart =
broke
for women [and men] terrorized and a society who seemed to turn a blind =
eye.
I accepted a position offered to me because I thought I might be able to
help others into the tent.
=20
As a man and still somewhat conservative Christian, I'm in conversations
with legislator and religious leaders who have been wary of me, as of =
all
things a radical liberal aligning himself with a feministic =
organizations,
but have listened. I have been given the opportunity to help a men's
anti-violence group start on the local campus. My gifts of communication =
and
collaboration are used equally well in both ministry and activism.
I do agree that the concerns raised by two groups with separate agendas
working collaboratively needs to be addressed. But isn't it the same=20
thing when we as advocates work with law enforcement, prosecution, =
medical
community, business community? Many of them work well within the status=20
quo and are slow to see it change. We have to be careful to exclude the=20
faith community based on ideology when we attempt to work =
collaboratively
with other ideologies we're are initially at odds with. In the previous
post, there is talk about the religious right not being interested in
working out women's violence issues just their moral agenda. The same =
could
be said of the feminist movement not being interested in the moral =
agenda
but the women's violence agenda. If the only place they can work =
together is
the anti-porn issue, great. At least it's a start. We're
interested in women being exploited. They see it as souls being=20
exploited. I can live with that. Two very distinct groups playing =
together
in the sandbox.
It also means that then next time a conservative religious leader looks=20
at a "feminist" issue, they will potentially see it with a different =
lens,=20
having worked with that group. And the next time a feminist looks at a=20
"religious" debate, they may see it through a different lens as well. I =
find
that extremely encouraging. I guess the bottom line is I don't see the =
two
groups as "enemies"-just two groups wanting to make the world better.
Humbly,
Dave McIntire
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 19:45:17 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:45:17 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion One coming to a close (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <001b01c31be3$ae033dc0$7a78510c@jimmy88>
Dear Discussion Participants,
Discussion One "Building a Big Tent Approach to Ending Men's Violence" is
now coming to a close. We will end this discussion today at 5 pm Pacific
Time (GMT-9).
The next discussion begins on Monday, May 26th, and will focus on learning
from batterer intervention programs.
The topic, "Innovation within Batterer Intervention Programs: Community
based approaches to enhancing safety and accountability", will be
facilitated by Fernando Mederos and Julia Perilla.
We will post the overview paper and case studies for this discussion on our
website by next Friday. We ask that you please review these documents
before joining in the discussion.
http://endabuse.org/bpi/
Thank you to those who have participated in the series so far; you have
helped to make this an exciting and useful exchange. We are also looking
forward to hearing from others in the upcoming discussions.
Sincerely,
James Lang, Lucy Salcido Carter, David Rider and Dean Peacock
PEMV-net moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 20:47:43 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:47:43 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: men's role in violence prevention (from Martin Dufresne)
Message-ID: <000001c31bec$68acc210$7a78510c@jimmy88>
Terry Woods wrote: I would be interested in hearing from men already
involved. I would like to know ways they feel included and encouraged =
and
ways they feel discouraged and minimized by the way the tent is =
currently
set up.
As a man, I actually feel too *easily* included and acknowledged in=20
mainstream discussions of male violence and of possible solutions. It =
seems=20
to me that any tent defines an inside and an outside - just who is being =
kept outside when some put such an essentialist premium on male analysis =
and involvement?
I am discouraged by the fact that the 'ending men's violence' =
environment=20
still casually assumes that men are the specialists on men and the only=20
ones that can move men forward, implicitly discounting some 25 years =
(and=20
counting) of feminist advocacy, research, front-line intervention and=20
analysis, without whom society would still be at square One if it had =
been=20
up to men to advance these issues.
I am concerned that most of the men who 'work with' batterers are *not* =
accountable to feminist praxis* and to battered women's experience. I =
see=20
them still improvising for funding agencies pseudo-explanations as to=20
whatever 'makes men do it' in their opinion, how batterers must learn to =
'manage' anger or behaviour - *more* control not less, when battered =
women=20
and their advocates tell us that batterers *choose* violence and that =
too=20
much male control is the problem, not the solution. They also more or =
less=20
openly compete with feminists for institutional credibility and vital=20
resources almost everywhere.
We can throw any 'tent' over that contradiction but it will be ours and =
I=20
fear that, with anything less than de facto accountability - meaning =
actual=20
control by front-line feminist advocates - traditional male social =
power=20
will go on being its "pole".
Martin Dufresne, Secretary
Montreal Men Against Sexism
(active against DV since the early nineties - we published "Limits and=20
Risks of 'Programs' for Wife-Batterers", partly on-line on the MINCAVA =
Web=20
site)
* I am referring to the work of women such as Rose Garrity and Barbara =
J.=20
Hart. For our local situation, read Dankwort and Rausch, "Men At Work to =
End Wife Abuse in Quebec: A Case Study in Claims Making", in Violence=20
Against Women: New Canadian Perspectives, Inanna Publications, Toronto,=20
2002, pp. 423-440. ISBN 0-9681290-5-6
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 20:49:31 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:49:31 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Assumptions about men's violence (from Steven Botkin)
Message-ID: <000101c31bec$a76ee3c0$7a78510c@jimmy88>
Greetings!
The "big tent" challenge has been an important one for us as we =
developed
the Men's Resource Center of Western Massachusetts over the past 20 =
years.
>From the beginning we wanted to find a way to create a community and an
organization that is able to understand the profound connection between =
the
oppression of women and the dehumanization of men, and therefore engage =
in
the work of both ending men's violence and the work of supporting men's
humanization. We continue to affirm that there is no inherent =
contradiction
between these analyses and agendas. And we are continually learning how =
to
implement this understanding in ourselves, in our work. For us this is =
the
most comprehensive and effective way to effect change, in both =
individuals
and in the culture, and the basis for building long-term ally =
relationships
with the battered women's organizations and other sectors in the =
communities
we serve.=A0 My article on Why a Men's Center and other information on =
our
website gives more information about our approach.=20
In response to the discussion about guiding principles I have attached =
our
"Assumptions About Men's Violence."=A0=20
Thank you all for engaging in this struggle.
Steven Botkin
Executive Director
Men's Resource Center of Western Massachusetts
www.mensresourcecenter.org
Assumptions about men=92s violence
1) No one deserves violence or abuse.
2) We have all seen and/or experienced abuse.
3) Men are not naturally violent or abusive.
4) Violence and abuse is more of an ongoing social problem than one of
isolated cases of individual pathology.
5) It is the perpetrator who is responsible for the abusive behavior.
6) Men are systematically trained to accept violence and domination as
an acceptable response to conflict, fear and anger.
7) While the external dynamics are clearly about power and control over
another person, men who are violent are often unconsciously feeling
powerlessness, isolation and fear.
8) Adopting patterns of violence and domination is both a reaction to
men=92s fear of victimization and access to privilege.
9) Men can change.
10) Men have much to gain from ending their violence and abuse and
undoing sexism.
11) Men can be proud and powerful allies with women and other men in
challenging all forms of oppression and dehumanization
=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 16 21:12:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:12:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Dani Meier's comments about The Vagina Monologues (from Richard Newman)
Message-ID: <000201c31bef$d0869340$7a78510c@jimmy88>
I am, unfortunately, coming to this discussion late, but I want to add
to what Dani Meier wrote way back at the beginning about how his group,
The Real Men's Project, formed in response to a performance of The
Vagina Monologues. Last November, I was invited to Fort Lewis College in
Durango Colorado to give a talk, a reading and lead writing workshops
(one for men and one for women) dealing with the issues involved in
writing autobiographically about gender, sex and sexuality. (I am a poet
and essayist and most of my writing deals with those subjects in one way
or another, usually, but not always, autobiographically.) What seems to
me to make my experience there relevant to this discussion is this: We
should not underestimate the role that art can play in creating the big
tent everyone is talking about, nor should we neglect the role that art
can play as both a welcoming force and a way of shaping the space
"within" the tent such that it is safe in the ways it needs to be safe
and encouraging of the kinds of risk taking that are ultimately
necessary when dealing with the issue of violence against women
personally, collectively (by which mean members of the same gender
working together) and collaboratively (by which I mean working across
gender lines). Precisely because art is the creation of symbols of
feeling that cannot be argued with, at least not in the same way that an
analysis can, it creates, or it can create, the potential for dialogue
that might otherwise prove impossible. It seems to me that The Vagina
Monologues is itself the perfect example of this phenomenon. We need
similar works by men--not a "Penis Monologues" necessarily, though who
knows what would happen if men told the truth that such a title
implies--that take on the phenomenon of violence against women from the
kinds of critical perspectives being brought to bear by the people
involved in this discussion.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat May 17 00:01:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:01:30 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Origins of the big tent (from Shantelle Gaynor)
Message-ID: <001401c31c07$7ea7a290$7a78510c@jimmy88>
I am very excited to be a part of this important dialogue. I have some
thoughts that speak to many of the messages and ideas posted. =20
In the last year I organized and initially facilitated a men's =
discussion
and activism group at the University of Montana. The group has a duel =
focus
- 1. to be a safe place for men to meet and discuss their experiences,
struggles and celebrations about being men (based on the consciousness
raising and informal support group style of 1970's Women's Movement and =
Viet
Nam Veterans.) 2. to be visible allies with women actively working =
towards
a violent free community. Some of our members really want to do =
activist
work, recruiting, networking, and getting out the message, while some =
really
just want to have a place to continue the discussions - so we have =
worked
very hard to create space for both. =20
As we progresses through the year it became more and more obvious that =
every
member of our group had some personal work to do - that seemed to stem =
from
a need to identify and support each other's experiences of growing up =
male.
Issues from role models encouraging them to be aggressive and even =
violent
to the hazing, bullying and humiliation they had all experienced by =
peers
and older boys. We were discovering that we could ask men to be =
non-violent
towards women, but that we really needed to address the violence in =
their
lives first. As the discussion/activist group continues to grow they =
are
striving to acknowledge their experiences, work to heal, take =
responsibility
for their actions, work to change their behavior while supporting other =
men
in doing the same. =20
I think that the experiences of many men in this group speak to a larger
issue. Statistics (offered in Tough Guise) tell us that 26% of men's
violence is against women... the other 74% is men's violence against =
men.
In a recent study by Dr. David Lisak called "The Undetected Rapist" at
University of Massachusetts - Boston and Duke University indicate that
although most men are not rapists - of those that are, many rape =
multiple
times. Of these men, 90-97% have experienced child sexual abuse. These =
men
are also more likely to batter partners. So, in essence many of these =
men
are perpetrators and survivors. Adding in factors such as men are more
likely to work in unsafe conditions, are injured and/or killed on the =
job at
higher rates, are more likely to experience the trauma of combat, and =
are
more likely to be imprisoned - a notoriously traumatic setting - is it =
not
more likely that men would be suffering from trauma or stress induced
syndromes such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that require a =
different
sort of attention that what most men receive? (An example: one sign of
PTSD is "self medication" or the abuse of drugs and alcohol as a coping
tool. Many drug and alcohol abusers are survivors of sexual and
relationship violence... so if we want to have a "War on Drugs" =
shouldn't we
address the violence that is a prominent factor in drug/alcohol abuse =
rather
than use our resources to incarcerate users/abusers in an effort to =
deter
them?)
I realize that men's trauma leading to men's violence leading to trauma =
is a
generalized and circular argument which can be perceived as excusing the
behavior we all wish to modify - but it can also be a place to build =
common
ground with a number of different groups and organizations. I.e. the =
peace
movement supports reducing harm to troops, unions support safer working
conditions, anti poverty groups seek to improve living conditions, civil
rights seeks to eliminate racial violence and promote equality... in =
many
ways we are all working to reduce degradation, violence and trauma in =
the
lives of individuals. We can find our common ground - and bring to this
work a perspective that sees gender as a specific point that also needs =
to
be addressed within each of these areas.
Many of the posts have looked to compare the anti-rape movement with the
anti-racism movements. Unfortunately there are no "absolute =
comparisons"
between various social justice movements - therefore we need to =
recognize
the universal and unique needs of this social justice work. For =
example:
In terms of racial violence - white people are not generally conditioned =
to
use domination and violence as a means of asserting whiteness, but men =
are
conditioned to use domination and violence to assert manliness. The
construction of "being a man" is expressed in a variety of violent =
gestures
- gender violence being one of them. However a man can be called upon =
to
prove himself by participating in a lynch mob and/or gay bashing, etc as
well.
So how can we blend the lessons learned in various movements - from the
women's consciousness raising and the supportive dialogue between =
soldiers
to deal with the enormous tragedy of war to the mobilization of many
stakeholders, as well as question the hierarchical structures of men =
that
encourage the continued ranking and domination of other men (and women) =
-
exploring how those boundaries can be broken down to encourage support =
of
cooperative development rather than competitive development while =
creating
an environment where people can heal from their individual experiences?
In thinking BIG TENT... I think we need to define what the foundations =
of
this tent are built on, articulate what our common ground is and develop
strategies to address the many levels of the issue ("Three Levels of
Prevention: Primary, Secondary and Tertiary - Case Study II.) I suppose =
I
am just a lover of the mission statement...
Shantelle Gaynor
SARS, Outreach Coordinator
University of Montana
sgaynor@mso.umt.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat May 17 00:33:04 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:33:04 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] a thank you (from Dave Mathews)
Message-ID: <000201c31c0b$e7931560$7a78510c@jimmy88>
Greetings to each of you! I am so excited about this forum and what
wonderful thoughts, experiences and questions are being contributed to =
it.=20
So often in this forum I so much want to jump in with my thoughts and =
then
at my next look at the contributions someone is able to state many of =
the
points I wanted to make but much more eloquently and succinctly.
=20
Almost three years ago Dean Peacock (consultant for FVPF) and I were =
talking
on the phone=A0about how there seems to be such a need for people from =
all
over who work in the field of domestic violence and in particular =
working
with men who batter who could benefit from connecting on this level. I
relayed to him my experience of a group that I was involved in and still
exists here in Minnesota, the PWWWPWB meetings (as a matter of fact they =
are
meeting even as I write this part of this posting =96 the third Thursday =
of
every month in one of three locations around the Twin Cities area). The =
PWW=85
stands for People Who Work With People Who Batter (The reasons for the
development of and history behind the name would be too voluminous to
describe here). Those who attend include therapists, educators, =
probation
officers, group facilitators, battered women shelter advocates, and many
others who work with people who batter. It is an informal gathering =
holding
very little power in and of itself. The primary function was to gather =
as
professionals in the field and have opportunity to share with one =
another
our experiences (a miniature =93big tent=94 of sorts).=20
I attended these meetings for nearly 14 years and regularly felt
strengthened by the collegial connections and the opportunities we had =
to
share controversial and sometimes contentious viewpoints. What I knew in =
the
end, regardless of my interaction with the people at these meetings was =
that
we learned from each other. At times on some critical points we even =
agreed
about root causes, methods of intervention and priorities.
When it was all over each meeting I felt people heard me and in spite of =
our
disagreements we maintained an understanding that we were moving in the =
same
direction but on separate paths.=A0 There were even some collaborations =
and
partnering on projects that took place as a result of these meetings =
(stay
tuned for more on this later). I am so thankful for these relationships =
and
learning opportunities. They not only benefited me professionally,
personally but also benefited the group members and people I was working
with.
When we talked Dean also shared with me the amazing work he was involved =
in
and others he was in contact with around the world that deserves to have
their story told to benefit the rest of us doing the work.=A0 We sort of =
mused
how wonderful it would be to have the opportunity to bring folks =
together to
share their experiences and learning, challenges and struggles, passion =
and
vision for eliminating violence. From there we connected with Jeff =
Edleson
at mincava and Dean pulled together a conference call of some great =
minds to
think through how this whole thing could happen. Time passed after this
meeting with much uncertainty about what the next steps might be. =
However,
Dean stayed persistent and is who should be credited as the primary =
catalyst
for this forum. I have appreciated his efforts and willingness to move =
this
project forward and he deserves so much of the thanks for this forum =
that I
believe is the embodiment of a virtual =93big tent.=94
Thanks again Dean!
Dave Mathews, DAP Mpls, MN
dmathews@mndap.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat May 17 00:34:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:34:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Searching for common ground under the big tent (from Jackson Katz)
Message-ID: <000401c31c0c$0ec2f970$7a78510c@jimmy88>
I really appreciate the discussion that centers on some of the tension
points of the big tent approach, (e.g. the recent discussion about =
whether
"feminists" and "conservative Christians" can or should work together
against pornography.)
I have long wrestled with these sorts of questions, both in an academic =
and
in a practical sense.=A0 One of my early experiences with the sorts of
questions raised by big tent thinking was in my work with college =
athletic
programs. Many feminists and others in the anti-rape movement have long =
seen
(men's) college athletic programs as the embodiment of masculine power =
and
privilege, and in some cases as hotbeds of misogyny and rape-supportive
attitudes and behaviors.=A0=20
On the other hand, a lot of men in college athletic programs -- AD's,
coaches, and student-athletes -- see themselves as unfairly stereotyped =
and
even stigmatized by the behavior of a small percentage of abusive men =
who
happen to have a high profile due to their athletic accomplishments.
In addition, many people believe that racism plays an unspoken role in =
the
mainstream conversation about "sexually violent male athletes," and =
hence
don't want to perpetuate racist stereotypes about men of color, =
(especially
but not exclusively African American men) under the guise of criticizing
male athletes in general.=20
So the question for me was: how do we effectively work with men in the
(highly influential) athletic subculture?=A0 If we come in with a =
systematic
critique of the abuses inherent or practiced in the male sports culture,
they'll shut (or shout) us down immediately and most assuredly they =
won't
invite us back.=A0 But if we don't bring a (feminist) gender analysis, =
aren't
we failing to get to the deeper roots of these problems?
One approach that I developed to help me think through these sorts of
conundrums was a concept embodied in the geometric model of the Venn
diagram.=A0 The Venn diagram captures poignantly the idea that coalition
building involves finding a marriage between overlapping interests, not
creating alliances between fully compatible partners.
The diagram consists of two overlapping circles. For the purpose of this
discussion, we might identify one circle as representing the needs and
interests of the battered women's and rape crisis movements.=A0 The =
other
circle represents any other organizations (e.g. college or high school
athletic programs, fraternities, the military.)
Clearly, there are large areas where the circles do not overlap.=A0 But =
the
strength of the big tent approach is that the focus of the work is on =
the
center area where the circles overlap.=A0 Instead of focusing on the =
areas of
disconnection and potential conflict, the focus is on the points of
agreement and shared objectives.=A0=A0=20
If, for example, athletic programs can agree that they want to take a
proactive leadership role in reducing men's violence against women on
campus, that can be the basis for them partnering with women's centers, =
rape
crisis centers, violence prevention initiatives, etc.=A0 They can be =
extremely
powerful allies. Do they have to sign on to a deeper critique of =
patriarchy,
gender and power in order for them to be successful at reducing violence =
in
the short term?=A0=20
On the other hand, some feminists might argue that unless you dismantle =
the
institutional supports for gender violence - including some aspects of =
the
male sports culture - you're only treating symptoms, not causes, and the
effort is bound to be woefully inadequate.=20
The way I often resolve these sorts of questions is to think =
pragmatically
and strategically: what will work to reduce rape, battering, sexual
harassment?=A0 I never lose sight of a larger or a longer-term analysis, =
but I
don't believe that it's inconsistent to have a broader institutional
critique while at the same time working effectively within existing
institutional structures.=A0 (Almost) needless to say, this can get =
tricky
when you consider questions about collusion with perpetrators, or men's
accountability to women or feminists.
Some of these questions are irresolvable, in part because in real life =
there
are too many variables, rendering inadequate sweeping conclusions.=A0 =
That is
why I think discussions like the one we've been having for the past two
weeks are so valuable, because it's important for people to be able to
consider all sorts of different perspectives when judging the costs and
benefits of partnership or coalition-building.=A0 At a minimum, if we're =
going
to engage effectively in big tent practice (or praxis), we must have a =
clear
sense not only of what we're giving up to do so - but what we're gaining =
in
return.
Jackson Katz
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat May 17 00:33:52 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:33:52 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] some further reflections (from Dave Mathews)
Message-ID: <000301c31c0c$02e39380$7a78510c@jimmy88>
Greetings one more time as I am wanting to relay one additional piece of
learning.
In another project that I am involved there is discussion of the people =
in
charge of the project on the topic of "model drift." The fear is that if =
the
way the project is carried out differs from how it was originally taught
that it will cause model drift and therefore spoil the project and =
possibly
hurt the people we are working with. I am not against having structure =
or a
process to have as a base. Spending so much time and effort on our
differences of opinion, somehow making sure that everyone is in 100%
agreement with the "one true" way things should be defined and done took =
our
eyes off the vision of the overall project. I am much more optimistic =
now
that our project focuses on "model integrity." Our time is spent less on
making sure that everyone conforms and more on how do we make our =
services
relevant and meaningful to the people we are trying to serve whether the
activities or methods were a part of the original model or not. I =
frankly
think this is where the domestic violence movement in general has gotten
bogged down over its relatively brief history. We are together exploring
future possibilities moving toward the vision. In addition we are better
defining our vision together and mutual goals in working with each =
other.=20
Going back to Tony Switzer's question about what we know doesn't work?=20
>From my experience:=20
Using our position to "prove" they (whoever "they" are) are doing it =
wrong -
doesn't work.=20
Being isolate and believing that my way is the only way - doesn't work.=20
Having the need or expectation that everyone should do it and see it the
same way as I do - doesn't work.=20
Discounting diverse perspectives - doesn't work.=20
Doing for and to other people (in this case men) - doesn't work.=20
>From my experience here are some thoughts and tactics I have had =
opportunity
to use and see that for me or the projects in which I was involved were
helpful:
Looking at how to reach men involves taking the marketing approach Mr. =
Gault
suggested a few postings back.=20
Understanding the audience we are trying to reach.=20
After my experience in the big tent I get to make more intelligent =
choices
with which I might want to approach about establishing a strategic =
alliance.
In working in any community I need to learn more about that community =
and
understand the community members that exist in it.
Building a partnership or strategic alliance does not mean that I forego =
my
program goals and vision. In fact such alliances are built around common
goals, benefits, gains and possibilities yet the program which pays me =
stays
autonomous to also address concerns and the vision is has.
All my partnerships and alliances I build to accomplish movement or =
change
are based on relationship with the other programs or groups. In other =
words
our program is less focused these days on being project reactive in
partnering with others. This also means that relationship with other
programs includes long-term discussions and demonstrated ways in we help
each other in different contexts.
I hope some of this information is helpful to folks. I know this is the =
last
day and I look forward to the next forum and how much I will be learning
from you all. Thanks again to Dean Peacock! Thanks to all the sponsors =
of
the forum, Mr. Katz, the Case study participants and the rest of my
co-onlookers.
Peace=20
Dave Mathews (dmathews@mndap.org)
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 22 17:56:02 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:56:02 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Wrap up of Discussion One and Reminders for Discussion Two (from the Moderators)
Message-ID: <001701c3208b$69577c70$5078510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMV-net Participants,=20
Thank you for your continued participation in the Building Partnerships
Initiative Discussion Series. Shortly we will send out final =
reflections
and a synthesis of our first discussion. We are excited that next =
Monday,
May 26th, we will begin the second discussion with the topic:=20
=93Innovation within Batterer Intervention Programs: Community Based
Approaches to Enhancing=A0Safety and Accountability=94=20
This discussion will run through June 6th, and will be facilitated by
Fernando Mederos of the National Latino Alliance to End Domestic =
Violence
and Julia Perilla of Georgia State University. =20
Please read the discussion papers before participating. We will not =
post
emails to the discussion list that are not related to this =
discussion=92s
topic. The paper for the discussion will be posted on our website =
tomorrow,
May 23rd, and we will send out a summary of the paper via email to =
launch
the discussion on Monday, May 26th.=20
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussions.php
Please note, to help keep the remaining discussions on topic and easy to
manage, there are a few points we would like to highlight from our =
updated
Netiquette: =20
1) Email postings should be no longer than 600 words, and each =
participant
is limited to three postings per discussion=20
2) Please give full references to all publications and resources that =
you
cite in your email postings =96 this enables others to find these =
resources
more easily.=20
3) Please use the =93subject line=94 to describe the topic of your =
email.
Please do not reply to a previous email unless you are specifically
responding to the content of that posting.=20
=20
Thank you for keeping these points in mind.=20
Warm regards,=20
Pemv-net Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 22 18:30:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:30:00 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Concluding comments on Discussion 1 -- the big tent (from Jackson Katz)
Message-ID: <000401c32090$2869d5f0$5078510c@jimmy88>
I'm grateful for the opportunity to make some concluding comments about =
the
"big tent" dialogue. But I must confess to feeling a bit awkward in the
task, because I have the floor for the "last word" -- at least for now, =
--
in a dialogue that so many people have so thoughtfully participated in =
for
the past few weeks.
I know that I speak for many people when I say that this has been a very
stimulating process, in both its technological and
human/interpersonal/community aspects. What a great forum for ideas,
connection, debate! On an international scale! From the comfort of our
keyboards! Like many old activists these days, I can't help but compare =
and
contrast this Internet experience with scenes from an earlier life, when
we'd spend hours putting together a leaflet that we'd hope to get into =
the
hands of a few hundred people, all in a 5 or 10 square-mile radius. And
connection with fellow activists - beyond the personal friends whom =
you'd be
in touch with by phone -- would typically have to wait until big =
national
conferences or marches.
Those days are fading into memory. =20
I'm greatly looking forward to the next three papers and dialogues.and
participating in many more Internet-based forums like this in the coming
years. I hope that the success of this one sparks more interest in
developing this specific format - or a close cousin -- as a regular tool =
of
connection/sharing ideas/debating critical issues.
For now, I just want to make a few observations about some of the issues
raised in the "big tent" discussion. Please know that it's not possible =
to
mention everybody's interesting contributions.
I think the diversity of opinions represented in the big tent discussion =
is
itself de facto proof of the existence of a big tent. It's just that not
many people have been using the term in this context. People brought up =
so
many different aspects of working with men around gender violence
prevention. I must say that I was and continue to be eager to hear =
what
people had to say about the institutional and political aspects of big =
tent
thinking. My sense is that at the beginning of many dialogues about
"getting men involved," a lot of people talk about men at the personal
level, (e.g. "my son," "my colleague," "my friend" "my students") rather
than about the larger issues involved in building coalitions. Obviously =
the
personal-level stuff is critical, but our society's inability or
unwillingness to prioritize gender violence prevention goes much deeper =
than
the individual level.
I'm happy that so many people brought race/ethnicity issues and =
metaphors
into the discussion, (e.g. comparing men working against men's violence =
to
whites working against racism). There are so many points of connection =
and
so many lessons learned from other movements that we can use in this =
one.
But there are clearly some new dilemmas and challenges that we face. =
And I
do have to say that - perhaps slightly contra Martin Dufresne - men =
taking
leadership in this area does not imply or necessarily involve =
supplanting
women's or feminists' leadership. I'm fully aware of the need for men =
to be
accountable to this historic and continuing leadership. But if we want =
to
move beyond the current impasse - and the pandemic rates of men's =
violence
that have persisted for decades -- we need new thinking, new =
coalitions,
new strategies. For prevention to work, we need many more men involved.
This in no way negates women's contributions; it builds on it. =20
Other items:
Bill West wrote that he got involved in a victim assistance program =
because
"I believe much more can be done to prevent violence, particularly when
there have been previous incidents or danger signs." He didn't like the
emphasis (in this forum) on changing male attitudes and theorizing =
causes;
he wanted ankle bracelets and better coordination with law enforcement =
and
women's programs. This is one of the classic dilemmas - short-term =
versus
long-term thinking. Of course we need better services and a system that =
is
more responsive to the needs of victims. But I must say, respectfully, =
that
it's not either/or: either we have big tent theorizing or we have better
services to victims. That's a false dichotomy. At least in my vision, =
if
we succeeded at bringing many more men into this work, including men =
with
institutional power -- social, economic, and political - we would
(suddenly!) find or generate the resources to better serve victims. But
this requires a larger vision, and much debate, and much struggle. If =
we
don't go through this process, we're just not going to have the =
resources or
political strength to do much more than continue cleaning up after the =
fact.
Thanks to Kim McCarten for bringing media into the discussion. One area
that I wish I had included more about in my paper is the transcendent
importance of media, both in terms of the media's contribution to the
problem (e.g. the ubiquitous objectification of women's bodies in
pornography and mainstream media, combined with the normalization - and
glamorization -- of violent, misogynous masculinity), and in terms of =
how
activists can and should use media, and media literacy, as =
transformative
tools. (Kim does this herself in her excellent web zine, =
www.mergemag.org)=20
Another area that didn't get as much attention as it deserves - either =
in
my paper or the subsequent dialogue -- is the connection(s) between
gay-bashing and men's violence against women. This should be the =
subject of
much discussion going forward - with obvious and subtle big tent
implications.
Claire Riley wrote: "I .have a question. I really thought I knew a lot =
about
men's lives, but realized I wasn't sure about the answer to this =
question.
There seems to be a consensus that men know when another man is abusing =
an
intimate partner. Certainly men are witnesses to sexual harassment of =
women.
But do men really discuss sexual violence? Obviously, some sexual =
assaults
involve groups of men, either assaulting or witnessing. But there are =
many
that do not. Do men go talk about this to other men? I kind of doubt it. =
It
is hard to confront this kind of violence as much."
In my experience, very few men talk about ANY of these issues with other
men. This is a big part of the problem. One of the biggest challenges =
for
gender violence prevention educators is creating spaces where men feel
welcome and safe to talk about our experiences - good and bad. And =
where
men who have not thought through these issues like some of us have can
nonetheless be part of the dialogue and not be immediately stereotyped =
and
caricatured.and then dismissed. This is part of big tent thinking. If =
the
tent is truly big, then the ideological litmus test for entry has to be
easier to pass. What do we give up when we do this? It's a critical
question, and many people in this forum engaged it. But we also have =
to
ask: what are the benefits of bringing more men (and women) in?=20
I really appreciated Dave McIntire's contributions. I know he brings a =
very
different personal/religious/ideological perspective than my own. Among
other things, he said ."It also means that then next time a conservative
religious leader looks at a "feminist" issue, they will potentially see =
it
with a different lens, having worked with that group. And the next time =
a
feminist looks at a "religious" debate, they may see it through a =
different
lens as well. I find that extremely encouraging. I guess the bottom line =
is
I don't see the two groups as "enemies"-just two groups wanting to make =
the
world better." This is far from the last word on this topic, but it is
true that for a big tent to exist "on the ground" and not just in
high-falutin theory, we are going to have to wrestle with some of the
significant differences between and among people who claim to have a =
similar
goal of reducing men's violence against women. =20
I want to address something that Shantelle Gaynor wrote; "In thinking =
BIG
TENT... I think we need to define what the foundations of this tent are
built on, articulate what our common ground is and develop strategies to
address the many levels of the issue ("Three Levels of Prevention: =
Primary,
Secondary and Tertiary - Case Study II.) I suppose I am just a lover of =
the
mission statement..."
When Dean Peacock, James Lang and I first discussed the big tent paper =
idea,
we agreed that it would be contrary to the spirit of the big tent to
preemptively define the pillars or poles of the tent before people had a
chance to discuss the many issues. There are also practical concerns: =
who
is authorized to define the big tent for others? Isn't it possible that =
the
big tent is a sensibility or a spirit as much as it's a tangible entity =
like
a coalition? As much as I like tidy endings, the definition and =
"mission
statement" of the big tent will have to wait for another day.
Finally, I want personally to thank Dean Peacock, James Lang, Lucy =
Salcido
Carter, and David Rider for their invaluable contributions to this =
process.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 22 20:15:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:15:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion One Synthesis (from the Moderators)
Message-ID: <000e01c3209e$e69a7670$5078510c@jimmy88>
Building a big tent approach to ending men's violence
Synthesis of the online discussion
May 5th - 16th, 2003
Jackson Katz urges people of all socioeconomic, ethnic, racial, and =
cultural
backgrounds, as well as all religious and political beliefs, to gather =
in
solidarity to end men's violence against women and children. In =
addition,
the six case studies that accompany this topic highlight the various =
means
by which this is beginning to happen. =20
By the end of this first discussion in the Building Partnerships =
Initiative
series, over 800 individuals from around the United States and the world
signed on to Pemv-net to create a virtual gathering of those concerned =
with
ending men's violence. The discussion was comprised of 116 postings from
nearly 100 different individuals. Along with this diversity, general
consensus was reached around some basic starting points for continuing =
to
build a big tent. =20
Because most perpetrators of violence are men and because most people in
leadership positions are men, it is particularly important for men to =
engage
in ending this violence. To truly prevent gender violence, men must =
create
a cultural climate among men in which the abuse of women is socially
unacceptable. Because violence is learned, violence prevention =
strategies
must teach boys and men how to be men in ways that do not involve =
abusing
women and girls. There is cause for optimism. In communities across =
the
country and the world ever larger numbers of men are developing =
initiatives
to shift the social norms that jeopardize the health and safety of women =
and
girls, as well as men and boys. Engaging more and more men through the =
big
tent approach raises the question of how men and women can work together =
to
end men's violence.
The big tent approach must allow for many voices to be heard. Everyone
under the tent must share the goal of ending men's violence, but =
strategies
for achieving this may vary. This work must bring in a wide array of
organizations that have not traditionally worked on gender violence
prevention. With such a range of groups engaged in this work at =
different
levels under the big tent, there are bound to be differences of opinion =
on
many issues-but these differences are also part of the strength of the =
big
tent approach. Men's violence is multi-faceted; ending it will require =
a
variety of perspectives and strategies. If enough people can agree that
ending men's violence is necessary and urgent, then many other =
differences
can be tabled for now. =20
Discussion participants echoed the opinion that men, who are already in
positions of power to effect change, must see themselves as empowered
bystanders who confront abusive peers. With cultural norms currently
supporting men to be aggressive, a man who speaks up against abuse can =
be
seen as weak. But if men begin to support each other as they speak out
against abusive behaviors, more and more men will feel comfortable =
speaking
up. One group is working to transform the traditional stereotype of men =
as
macho to the image of "real men" as being good, gentle, and loving, and =
is
reaching out to fathers and sons with the message "Teach our sons: real =
men
don't hit." Male role models in sports, the military, politics, and
entertainment can create images of powerful men who do not use violence.
Jackson Katz's video, "Tough Guise" was successfully used with union men =
to
help them see how society distorts notions of what it means to be a man.
The video provided a frame of reference and language for these men to =
use in
thinking about how to take a stand against men's violence against women.
Often men who are not ready to engage in the issue on the political or
societal level, can engage at the personal level by understanding how =
men's
violence has affected women in their lives. One way to recruit men is =
to
personally invite them, and to support them as they determine for =
themselves
why they want to do this work and how they can contribute. Some
participants felt that men must first define manhood before they can =
truly
be empowered as bystanders to speak up against violence. Others =
expressed
the belief that what it means to be a man is different for every man, =
and
that men should not be compelled to move from one masculine ideal to
another. There is much that men can do to interrupt violence against =
women
without ever deciding what it means to be a man. The values associated =
with
being a "good man" are really no different than the values of being a =
good
human being. At the same time, men must examine the gendered context in
which men's violence occurs, and critically examine notions of =
masculinity.
The bystander model Katz proposes does not absolve men of the =
responsibility
for sexist attitudes or behaviors; instead it is a way to get men =
thinking
critically about how they are complicit with regard to sexism. It is =
also a
way to bring more men into the conversation than would just focusing on
either perpetrators or potential perpetrators.
There are risks to broadening the coalition and these risks must be =
managed.
Men who perpetrate or condone violence can talk the talk of inclusion =
and
empowerment, but that does not mean they walk the walk. It can be =
difficult
to assess who is authentically engaged in this work, which is partly why
women have been cautious about male participation. One participant =
stressed
that the onus is on men to earn the trust of the women working in this
field, and that sharing the load builds trust better than advising women =
on
how to bear it by themselves. Parallels were drawn between work by =
white
allies to end racism and work by men to end violence against women. =
White
allies are responsible for their own racism, and cannot expect people of
color to teach and lead them, yet they are also accountable to people of
color every step along the way. Similarly, men will not usurp women's
leadership as long as they take on the work within their own =
"privileged"
group as leaders in the movement to end violence against women. =20
To engage as many people as possible, prevention efforts must include
explanations of the harms and costs of violence against women, not only =
in
terms of the damage to individual families, but also to employers, to
communities, and to society as a whole. Part of reaching out to new
partners is educating them about the history of the movement and =
offering
resources and knowledge to people who have not worked in this field. To
reconcile differences across organizational partners, it is important to
keep the mission of the work simple, clear, and consistent, and to =
resist
expanding the mission to include other goals. Even adjacent goals may
create problems for some of the coalition partners and may siphon =
valuable
resources away from the primary mission. Language is also important. =
To
engage a wide range of people under the big tent, the discussion cannot =
be
too academic or abstract. And, it is important to be aware of what has =
not
worked in the past to broaden the tent, so that those mistakes are not =
made
again.
=20
Some Resources Mentioned:=20
=20
Publications
Dobash, R. E., Dobash, R. P., Cavanagh, K., & Lewis, R. (2000). =
"Changing
Violent Men". Thousand Oaks: Sage=20
Gilligan, J. (2001). Preventing Violence. New York: Thames and Hudson.=20
Gilligan, J. (1997). Violence: Reflections on a National Epidemic. New =
York:
Vintage Books.=20
hooks, bell. (2000). "Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center" South End
Press.
Johnson, M. P., & Ferraro, K. (2000) "Research on Domestic Violence in =
the
1990s: Making Distinctions". Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62,
948-963)
Moffett, Helen. (2003). "Stemming the Tide: Countering Public Narratives =
of
Sexual Violence"=20
http://www.womankind.org.uk/documents/stemming%20the%20tide%20march%2003.=
doc
Obsatz, M. "From Shame-Based Masculinity to Holistic Manhood," on the
resource page http://endabuse.org/bpi/resources.php.
Rape Crisis Cape Town - why statistics on rape are so often contested
www.rapecrisis.org.za.=20
Thompson, Cooper, Emmett Schaefer and Harry Brod (2003). "White Men
Challenging Racism: 35 Personal Stories" Duke University Press. =20
United Nations Instraw. (2000). Partners for Change - Working with Men =
to
end Gender Based Violence=20
http://www.un-instraw.org/en/resources/publications.html#a10
Videos=20
Gloucester Men against Domestic Abuse. "Breaking our silence: Gloucester =
men
speak out against domestic abuse". www.strongmendontbully.com=20
Jackson Katz, "Tough Guise: Violence, Media and the Crisis in =
Masculinity"=20
http://www.mediaed.org/videos/MediaGenderAndDiversity/ToughGuise
Jackson Katz, "Wrestling With Manhood"=20
http://www.mediaed.org/videos/MediaGenderAndDiversity/WrestlingWithManhoo=
d/
"Role Reversal", a documentary by A&E Television=20
http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/s03.jhtml?search=3Drole+reversal
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon May 26 14:40:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:40:32 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Community Connections: Men, Gender, and Violence by Fernando Mederos and Julia Perilla
Message-ID: <3ED22760.5010600@mencanstoprape.org>
PURPOSE
The battered women's movement made intimate partner violence a public
issue in the 1960s. Since then members of this movement have engaged in
a cultural conversation about the oppressiveness of masculinity
(Connell, 1995, 2000), and have created institutional responses,
spearheaded by the criminal justice system and batterer intervention
programs, to re-educate and restrain abusers (Aldarondo & Mederos,
2002). This article will begin with a critical review of these
institutional responses, and focuses on measures directed at abusers.
The key questions we explore here are: 1) Do these institutional
measures maximize safety and empowerment for all battered women? 2) Do
they maximize the impact on abusers? 3) What alternatives and
expansions of the current criminal justice response make sense? 4) What
guiding principles should these new approaches follow? In this article,
we also briefly describe five programs that are creating community-based
responses to intimate partner violence and are expanding criminal
justice approaches. Our companion paper posted on the Building
Partnerships Initiative web site (at www.endabuse.org/bpi) describes
these programs in greater detail.
BACKGROUND
The battered women's movement grew out of the women's liberation
movement of the 1960s (Schechter, 1982). Initially, battered women's
advocates created safe house networks and shelters for victims of
violence, and advocated in state legislatures and criminal justice
systems for effective interventions to protect victims of violence.
These efforts resulted in the establishment of civil protective orders
that direct abusers to stop abusive conduct, to leave a joint residence,
to stay away from the victim and her workplace, and to give victims of
violence temporary custody of children. Advocates also supported a
strong criminal justice response, involving police, prosecutors, the
judiciary, and probation departments, to protect victims of violence.
They advocated for mandatory arrest policies and proactive prosecution
of abusers. At the same time, battered women's advocates agitated for
the establishment of educational programs for abusers (Mederos, 1999;
Shechter, 1982). The first batterer intervention programs were
established in the late 1970s. These programs provided an urgently
needed alternative to mental health approaches that were largely
ineffective with abusers. The goals of these programs were 1) to help
men stop violent and abusive behavior, and 2) to take into account the
safety of adult victims and their children. Early programs such as
Amend, Emerge, and Raven pioneered group treatment approaches that
accomplished these goals. These programs also provided a focal point
for pro-feminist social justice activists, many of them men, who were
interested in issues of gender justice and masculinity, and who wanted
to end intimate partner violence.
COORDINATED COMMUNITY RESPONSE INITIATIVES
Initially, the criminal justice response to domestic violence heightened
risk for many battered women because it was chaotic and uncoordinated
(Pence, 1999). For example, when effective prosecution of abusers was
followed by trivial sentences and ineffective monitoring during
probation, the overall message for abusers was that their domestic
assaults were not taken seriously. Eventually, this problem led to the
creation of collaborations among the criminal justice system, battered
women's services, batterer intervention programs, and other agencies
(Pence, 1999). These collaborations are usually called coordinated
community response initiatives (CCRIs). The goals of CCRIs are to
maximize safety for battered women, to hold abusers accountable, and to
compel abusers to change their behavior or face imprisonment.
These initiatives typically include:
o Implementation of pro-arrest policies by the police;
o Proactive prosecution that is focused on victim safety;
o Effective judicial oversight of convicted offenders;
o Ongoing monitoring of abusers by probation officers;
o Batterer intervention programs that focus on behavior change;
o Imprisonment for abusers who violate probation or who re-assault or
harass victims;
o Ongoing coordination with battered women's services; and
o Oversight of the process by battered women's advocates.
The CCRI is a life-saving innovation. It offers a protective framework
for victims of violence and structures effective roles for institutions
that previously ignored the plight of battered women. It has often
provided the means to apprehend abusers and to compel them to stop their
abuse. Current research demonstrates that the CCRI creates
circumstances that help (or force) 80-90 percent of abusers to change
their behavior and remain non-violent on a long-term basis (Gondolf,
2002).
The CCRI is also essential because it has involved state institutions in
the effort to create and maintain a new standard of behavior in
relationships. Many men understand that the system is likely to become
involved in their lives if they physically abuse their partners. They
know that the veil of privacy that used to cloak intimate relationships
has changed. Nonetheless, it is also important to acknowledge that
basic and coordinated protections for victims of violence are still
missing in many locations. Although many towns and cities have
implemented some aspects of CCRIs, many others have done little. We
support the development of CCRIs as a basic protective framework for
battered women. However, we do not believe that CCRIs alone can
adequately address intimate partner violence.
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THE CCRI
Because they promise a valuable response in situations in which women
and children are at risk, CCRIs have become the principal recipients of
Violence Against Women Act and similar funding. However, there are
unexpected negative consequences to making CCRIs the primary
intervention with abusive men.
First, the CCRI serves few women. Most police departments report that
the vast majority of women whose partners are arrested for assault do
not pursue charges. In addition, the 2000 National Violence Against
Women Survey indicates that 75 percent of intimate partner assaults are
not reported to the authorities. Why? Battered women's advocates
report that many women of color fear or mistrust the criminal justice
system and believe it has an oppressive impact on men in their
families. Many of these women are aware of the disproportionate levels
of incarceration of men in their communities and of the historically
oppressive impact of the criminal justice system on men of color.
Likewise, many immigrant women avoid criminal justice system
intervention because arrest results in the deportation of men who are
undocumented or who have temporary work visas. Many immigrant women
also associate law enforcement with the brutality that they suffered at
the hands of the police in their countries of origin. Finally, many
women want the abuse to stop, but they do not want their partners to go
to jail. Yet, the CCRI and measures such as arrest and prosecution are
often the only resources directed at abusers. Even a well-functioning
and comprehensive CCRI does not provide protective resources that can be
accessed by all victims, particularly those who do not wish to prosecute
their partners.
In addition, a CCRI reaches very few men. Unless an abuser is arrested
for assault or for violating a restraining order, the CCRI will not
reach him. A CCRI does not include outreach to abusers or to community
members who are at risk of engaging in domestic violence. It does not
reach men in community settings such as street corners, barber shops,
bars, sports events, or neighborhood organizations. Similarly, there is
no educational outreach for other men in the community who could serve
as models of non-violent marital and parental roles.
The CCRI relies primarily on standardized batterer intervention programs
that ignore other avenues of engagement with men. Although these
programs excel at confronting underlying beliefs of male supremacy and
can teach participants alternatives to coercive control in
relationships, they give minimal attention to class, race, ethnicity,
and other life context issues. Yet class, race, ethnicity and other
issues can complicate or facilitate the change process for many
abusers. The most widely implemented batterer intervention program
models, such as EMERGE (Adams & Cayouette, 2002), Duluth (Pence &
Paymar, 1990, 1993; Pence, 2002), Manalive (Sinclair, 1989, 2002) and
Compassion Workshops (Stosny, 1995, 2002), take a color-blind,
culturally generic approach that assumes there is a universal pattern of
coercive control in relationships. They do not mobilize protective
factors in different cultures, factors, for example, that support
respectful relationships with women. They also do not acknowledge
culture-specific forms of male privilege or different life challenges
that men from diverse backgrounds have encountered. For example, these
programs do not take into consideration that exposure to racism and
violence makes it easier to adopt a rigid defensive/aggressive posture
in intimate relations and that such experiences can reinforce existing
gender norms that support male supremacy. These programs also cannot
speak to different traditions of male identity that can be both risks
factors as well as sources of pride and models of respectful
relationships. In addition, standardized batterer intervention programs
may be successful with mandated program participants, but have had very
limited impact on men who are not mandated to attend.
Other factors undermine the positive impact of batterer intervention
programs. One such factor is the sizable number of practitioners who
adopt a confrontational and self-righteous tone in their programs. For
many participants, this reproduces the hierarchical and oppressive
relationships that they encounter in their daily lives and that abusers
are being asked to stop using with their partners and children. Instead
of providing non-violent models for relationships, this confrontational
style increases the risk that abusers will adopt a defensive or falsely
compliant stand during sessions, and then maintain a defensive or
hostile attitude when they return home.
Finally, most men mandated to attend batterer intervention programs
through the CCRI are poor, underemployed, or unemployed, and have low
levels of educational attainment. The CCRI approach is not intended to
address these issues. CCRIs miss the opportunity to reach men while
they are on probation, to help them attain education and employment
goals. Such improvements in education and employment might enhance
abusers' stake in conformity, and increase the probability that they
will remain violence-free. This omission is aggravated by the fact that
abusers pay significant fees to participate in batterer intervention
programs. For many indigent and low-income men, a registration fee of
$150 and a six-month minimum weekly fee of $15 to $25 are serious
burdens. This fee structure is another obstacle to wider involvement in
batterer intervention programs. Although understandable from a
pragmatic and philosophical perspective, the historic decision not to
fund batterer intervention programs at reasonable levels has served to
further marginalize these programs.
ALTERNATIVES TO THE CCRI
These unintended impacts of CCRI do not negate the positive impact of a
coordinated criminal justice response to intimate partner violence.
CCRI remains a life-saving intervention whose absence deprives victims
of violence of critical protections. Nevertheless, we believe that
these unwanted consequences of the CCRI can be reduced and that a
broader approach to abusers is possible, without undoing the benefits of
the CCRI. It should be possible to create initiatives that:
1. Reach out, through preventative community education and early
intervention activities, to abusers, to men who are at risk of becoming
abusers, and to men who can act as educators for their peers.
2. Engage men in ways that reflect a deep knowledge of their cultural
backgrounds, life challenges, and positive aspects of their traditions
of manhood.
3. Engage a wide range of community agencies in educating and
reaching out to men about ending intimate partner violence.
The initiatives described in greater detail in our companion paper
(available at www.endabuse.org/bpi) illustrate these approaches. The
Boston/Dorchester initiative includes a community outreach program and a
culturally-based public education campaign, which are intended to reach
men at the very early stages of their involvement with the criminal
justice system, as well as to engage men who can educate their peers
about ending intimate partner violence. Three Atlanta-based projects,
Caminar Latino, Tapestri, and Men Stopping Violence, are all examples of
culturally-based batterer intervention programs. These programs take
into account how life challenges. such as oppression, poverty, and
exposure to violence, can normalize abusive relationships with women.
Caminar Latino, Tapestri, and Men Stopping Violence also structure the
change process with abusers to reflect the positive aspects of their
cultural background that are sources of pride and that facilitate
respectful relationships with women. A social change perspective and a
deliberate focus on community outreach are also core themes for these
three programs. The Men's Nonviolence Project of the Texas Council on
Family Violence is a statewide initiative focused on community
organizing, education, and networking directed at helping men change
their abusive behavior. Other goals of this project include encouraging
approaches outside of the criminal justice system and improving the
batterer intervention programs that are attached to that system.
CONCLUSION
These projects represent a preliminary step toward reaching abusers
whose partners will never seek assistance from the criminal justice
system or a shelter. Carrying this work forward calls for learning how
men can talk to each other about intimate partner violence and
incorporate in these discussions the strengths and wisdom of their own
cultures. It calls for men to learn to talk to each other in informal
settings such as street corners, at home, at work, and at family
gatherings. It calls for a careful combination of support, respect, and
clear accountability. Without these dialogues, the movement to end
intimate partner violence is reliant on a system that can reach only a
small percentage of men who batter.
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Adams, D., & Cayouette, S. (2002). Emerge-a group education model for
abusers. In E. Aldarondo & Mederos, F. (Eds.). (2002). Programs for
men who batter: Intervention and prevention strategies in a diverse
society. Kingston, NJ: Civic Research Institute, 3-1-3-16.
Aldarondo, E,. & Mederos, F. (Eds.). (2002). Programs for men who
batter: Intervention and prevention strategies in a diverse society.
Kingston, NJ: Civic Research Institute.
Connell, R. (1995). Masculinities. Santa Cruz: University of California.
Connell, R. (2000). Understanding men: Gender sociology and the new
international research on masculinities. Clark Lecture, Department of
Sociology, University of Kansas, 19 September, 2000.
Mederos, F. (1999). Batterer intervention programs: Past and future
prospects. In E. Pence & M. Shepard (Eds.) Coordinating community
responses: Lessons from Duluth and beyond. Newbury Park, CA: Sage,
127-150.
Pence, E. (2002). The Duluth Domestic Abuse Intervention Project. In
E. Aldarondo & F. Mederos (Eds.), Programs for men who batter:
Intervention and prevention strategies in a diverse society. Kingston,
NJ: Civic Research Institute, 6-2-6-4.
Pence, E., & Paymar, M. (1990). Power and control: Tactics of men who
batter, an educational curriculum. Minnesota Program Development, 206
West Fourth Street, Duluth, MN 55806.
Pence, E,. & Paymar, M. (1993). Education groups for men who batter:
The Duluth model. New York: Springer.
Pence, E. (1999). An introduction: Developing a coordinated community
response. In M. Shepard & E. Pence. Coordinating community responses:
Lessons from Duluth and beyond. Newbury Park, CA: Sage, 3-23.
Schechter, S. (1982). Women and male violence. Boston: South End.
Sinclair, H. (1989). Manalive: Accountable programs for violent men.
San Rafael, CA: Manalive Training Programs for Men, 345 Johnstone Drive,
94903.
Sinclair, H. (2002). A community activist response to intimate partner
violence. In E. Aldarondo & F. Mederos (Eds.), Programs for men who
batter: Intervention and Prevention strategies in a diverse society.
Kingston, NJ: Civic Research Institute, 5-2-5-51.
Stosny, S. (2002). Treating attachment abuse-the Compassion Workshop.
In E. Aldarondo & F. Mederos, (Eds.), Programs for men who batter:
Intervention and prevention strategies in a diverse society. Kingston,
NJ: Civic Research Institute, 9-1-9-15.
Stosny, S. (1995). Treating attachment abuse: A compassionate
approach. New York: Springer.
This project was supported by Grant No. 2001-WT-BX-K019 awarded by the
Office on Violence against Women, Office of Justice Programs, U.S.
Department of Justice. Points of view in this document are those of the
author and do not necessarily represent the official position or
policies of the U.S. Department of Justice. Similarly, the ideas
presented in this document do not necessarily represent the viewpoints
of the Family Violence Prevention Fund and its partners.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon May 26 15:03:52 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 11:03:52 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion 2: Batterer Intervention Programs - Community based approaches to enhancing safety and accountability
Message-ID: <3ED22CD8.7040806@mencanstoprape.org>
Dear Discussion Participants,
Today marks the beginning of Discussion 2 of the Building Partnerships to End Men's Violence Online Discussion Series: Batterer Intervention Programs - Community based approaches to enhancing safety and accountability. The overview for this discussion, sent in a separate email, is entitled "Community Connections: Men, Gender, and Violence" by Fernando Mederos and Julia Perilla. In addition to the overview, we ask you to please familiarize yourself with the full paper, which includes the case studies for this discussion, found on our website:
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussion2.php
We welcome your comments or questions regarding this paper. We
hope you enjoy this discussion and thank you for your participation.
Sincerely,
PEMV-net moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue May 27 15:11:22 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:11:22 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Unintended Consequences of CCRI - in Ireland (from Phil Mortell)
Message-ID: <3ED3801A.1070201@mencanstoprape.org>
Here in Ireland the battered women's movement also grew out of the
women's liberation movement of the 1960's and developed along similar
lines to its counterparts in the US and the UK. However, in Ireland the
impetus for the development of programmes for men who are abusive has
not come from the providers of women's refuges, but from social workers
and probation officers concerned to do something for the protection of
women and children who remain at home with such men or return to them
from refuges.
As a result, services for women and intervention programmes for men have
developed along separate lines in Ireland. This is graphically
illustrated by the fact that MOVE (Men Overcoming ViolencE) Ireland, the
sole provider in Ireland of intervention programmes for men who are
abusive, is not allowed representation on the government's National
Steering Committee on Violence against Women (NSCVAW). This Committee
was set up on foot of the Irish government's Task Force Report on
Domestic Violence (1997) to advise the government on implementing the
Report's recommendations and is almost entirely comprised of
representatives of women's organisations and government departments.
The NSCVAW is heavily influenced by the work of the Duluth (Minnesota)
Domestic Violence Intervention Programme which is probably the best
known DVIP in Ireland. This is not a problem in itself, because the
Duluth DVIP has made a major contribution to our understanding of male
domestic violence here in Ireland.
The problem is not with the basic tenets of Duluth (identified in
Ireland as the CCRI model) but with the inflexibility and low boiling
point of many of its Irish proponents - most of whom have never worked
with men who are violent - but have influence out of all proportion to
their numbers on policy development in Ireland. They seem to insist that
the only touchstone of acceptable practice is Duluth, the whole Duluth
and nothing but Duluth.
The NSCVAW, for instance, has just announced (April 2003) the
establishment of a Duluth-type CCRI pilot in one area on the outskirts
of Dublin to work exclusively with court-mandated men. This one pilot
will receive more government funding annually than the total funding
received by MOVE for its twelve programmes nationwide.
MOVE, for its part, works with both mandated and self-referred men. Men
are not required to pay for participation but are invited to make an
anonymous contribution towards the programme overheads (the facilitators
work on a voluntary basis). Partner contact/support programmes are
generally operated by the local women's refuge outreach staff.
Despite the excellent working relationships at local level between
MOVE's facilitators and women's services providers, there is a need for
unambiguous recognition at national level in Ireland for a range of
intervention programmes for men as an essential component of the full
spectrum of services to combat violence against women.
In addition, fruitful cooperation between providers of services to women
and providers of intervention programmes for men must be based on mutual
respect for the integrity and specific expertise of the agencies
involved. Facilitators of intervention programmes for men have
developed a body of knowledge and expertise in the area of working with
men who use violence. They are open to the advice, support and
challenge of their colleagues in services to women and would like to
think that this openness will be reciprocated.
Phil Mortell
Principal Social Worker
Organisation Development Unit
Partry House
Parnell Street
Limerick
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed May 28 02:11:40 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:11:40 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Reaching Out To Men on Commuter College Campuses (from Richard Newman)
Message-ID: <3ED41ADC.4000408@mencanstoprape.org>
Hi All,
Phil Mortell's comments about the difficulties MOVE Ireland has in
getting funding and in getting a seat at the institutional table where
male violence against women is dealt with in his country reminded me of
an experience I had at the college where I teach when I was asked to
help organize a panel of male students who would speak about their own
experience of male heterosexuality and sexual pleasure. The woman who
asked me to do this, the coordinator of the college's Women's Center,
put her request in the context of having male student participation be
"as useful as possible." Her tone was ironic and it was clear she had
very low expectations for what the panel could accomplish. (And I guess
this sense of low expectation is what Phil Mortell's comments put me in
mind of, though I have no idea if the situation of MOVE in Ireland has
anything to do with a similar dynamic.)
Well, a colleague and I organized the panel of four male students who
spoke quite eloquently, though not on the subject of sexual pleasure.
Instead, each talked spontaneously about how his relationship with his
father--and each had had a very negative relationship with his
father--had shaped his attitudes towards women. Indeed, each pointed out
that he did not really like the attitude he held towards women precisely
because it had in it the seeds of intimate partner violence. (These were
not their words; I am summarizing here.) One man told the story of how
he began to come to terms with what he'd learned from his father about
women when he realized that he had committed an act of sexual violence
against a lover without even realizing it had been violent. There was a
great deal of discussion with the audience after the panel and everyone
seemed to agree that the event was a success.
Afterwards, the woman who had asked me to help put the panel together
offered congratulations in a tone that made it sound like the men on the
panel were like the proverbial monkeys who, given enough time at a
typewriter, would eventually type out the text of Hamlet. She was
shocked to discover that there were male students at our college who
could be so articulate about these issues. When I pointed out to her
that, in fact, the men had spoken spontaneously, completely disregarding
the preparation my partner and I had asked them to do, she was even more
surprised. Unfortunately, efforts my colleague and I made to get these
men to form some sort of group and to attract other men did not bear
fruit--which is perhaps a fact of life at a commuter community college.
Thinking about this in the context of the present discussion, especially
the point made by the authors of the discussion paper that men need to
be reached in the communities where they live and work, what strikes is
how much these four men wanted and needed to talk about these issues and
how poorly served they and men like them would be both by the dismissive
attitude of the woman who runs the Women's Center and the absence of
some sort of on-campus men's group. I would welcome hearing from anyone
who has experience trying to organize such a group at a commuter
community college.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Richard Newman
Associate Professor
English Department
Nassau Community College
Garden City, NY 11530
Phone: (516) 572-7612
Fax: (516) 572-8134
newmanr@ncc.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 29 17:37:09 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:37:09 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Cultural Competence (from Pat McGann)
Message-ID: <001801c32608$f05015c0$a279510c@jimmy88>
Thank you Fernando Mederos and Julia Perilla for a provocative and rich
paper on how batterer intervention programs have expanded beyond
coordinated community response initiatives. I am particularly
interested in cultural competence, since this is one of the guidelines
repeatedly present throughout the piece and since I find it to be a
particularly challenging topic - especially as a white man. I have more
questions than solutions, and I hope they incline everyone on the list
to struggle along with me. I don't believe any organization is fully
and absolutely competent when it comes to culture; I know Men Can Stop
Rape isn't. So I'm assuming we're all struggling toward the goal of
becoming more competent.
I am wondering what is meant by cultural competence. Does it simply
imply that an organization has the capacity to address different
cultural groups? Does it mean that employees of an organization are
knowledgeable about the different cultural constituencies they do
program work with? Does cultural competence suggest that an
African-American man should be hired to work with African-American
males, and so on? Is cultural competence more an issue in the U.S. than
in other countries? How does a men's nonviolence organization become
culturally competent? Through training? Are there theories of
cultural competence that people have found particularly helpful? Do
men's batterers intervention programs and men's nonviolence
organizations in general have to first become culturally competent about
feminism and women's cultures? When we talk about cultural competency
in relation to men's anti-violence groups, are we talking about the need
to learn about masculinities?
I recognize the importance and value of addressing the needs of
underserved communities and of diversifying what has historically been a
largely white men's movement to end violence against women. But reading
Mederos and Perilla's paper it might be easy to think that violence
against women is largely a problem that exists with men of color, that
they need interventions far more than, say, white men. Given that
in mainstream U.S. culture some men of color - Latino and
African-American men, for instance - are imagined to be more violent, I
feel like it's important to not let white masculine cultures'
connections to violence against women disappear. I'm thinking, for
example, of an incident involving some suburban male high school
students - most of them white - in the DC area who skipped school to
sexually assault, batter, and steal from a call girl they had visit one
of the boy's homes. In this white middle class world, these boys were
viewed as aberrations. Men Can Stop Rape couldn't get in the school to
present because from the school administrators' perspective there was no
problem; the violence that occurred was an issue limited to individuals
and not part of a cultural environment. Their boys wouldn't do this -
at least the boys they would want to claim as theirs. Such a stance
makes invisible any links between white masculine culture and violence
against women.
So what does it mean to think of white males as part of a culture?
With all the people signed up to participate on this list, the
collective knowledge has to be astounding. I look forward to learning
from all of you.
Best,
Pat
Pat McGann
Director of Outreach
Men Can Stop Rape
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu May 29 21:38:02 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 14:38:02 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Cultural Competence (from Mark Robinson)
Message-ID: <002c01c3262a$95edd6e0$4f79510c@jimmy88>
I fully agree with the prevailing view on the excellence of the paper by
Mederos and Perilla. Two comments I would add to the discussion; one =
about
cultural competence and the other about adjusting the model for CCRI's.
I was privileged to experience Sujata Warrier's presentation on cultural
competency at a conference a couple of weeks ago. I confess that this =
white
boy had always thought of cultural competency as being sensitive to the =
ways
other cultures do things and about being open to the validity and value =
of
others' ways. Which it is. But more than that, I came away with the
awareness that there is even a certain oppressive quality to "knowing =
how
you people do things." It is thinking that I understand another before =
I
get to know "where they are coming from" that is a central
feature of cultural incompetency.
This has important implications for the way we treat all of the men and
women with which we work. When we decide that someone is a "batterer," =
and
we know what batterers are like, we are proving ourselves to be =
culturally
incompetent. It is also disrespectful. It is hard enough to help =
people
change under the best of circumstances. It becomes impossible when they
know we don't respect them. I continue to be amazed that there are =
people
who intervene with men who batter that don't believe that men who batter =
can
change.
With regard to building a coordinated community response: I believe that =
the
shortcomings, where they exist, are the consequence of a too narrow =
vision
on the part of those organizations that are coordinating their efforts. =
If
we are going to work with others in the community response when it makes =
our
job easier but ignore others when it isn't convenient, then we are going =
to
undermine the larger goals of our work. We have tried lots of things to
intervene in adult intimate partner abuse. The only thing, from my
perspective, that always works is working together.
But we disagree. We see things differently. We have conflicts. And =
when
we can't address our conflicts in a respectful and supportive way and =
work
through to a mutually satisfying resolution, then we aren't very =
effective
at helping others do that work. Thus, our ability to creatively address =
the
conflicts that arise in our efforts to collaborate becomes a measure of =
our
effectiveness in social transformation. We cannot teach others to do =
what
we cannot do ourselves.
Mark Lee Robinson
Director of the Abuse Prevention Program
St. Louis, MO
mark-app@charter.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 30 01:07:48 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 18:07:48 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Online discussion - we need you help
In-Reply-To: <20030529173900-130800041>
Message-ID: <002f01c32647$e3d69410$4f79510c@jimmy88>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C3260D.3777BC10
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fernando,=20
=20
Thanks for your email. What you wrote is a very good start, and I have =
a
few suggestions, 1) perhaps you can add some of your reflections on the
current postings, and 2) listing the entire set of the questions from =
the
paper over again may be overwhelming. Can you focus on, or recast in =
some
way, the three or four most important questions for you - we can move on =
to
other questions next week. =20
=20
Also, there are three good contributions that are "pending" - they will =
be
posted tomorrow - but I had to hold them from the list and return to the
authors because one was too long and the other did not cite the =
references.
I will send these to you next so you can have a feel for other opinions. =
=20
Perhaps Dean or Lucy will have additional thoughts?
=20
Finally, to post an email, just send it to: =20
pemv-net@communityforum.net
=20
Many thanks for your consideration in this process.=20
James=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando Mederos [mailto:f.mederos@verizon.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:41 PM
To: jameslang@supermail.com
Cc: deanpeacock@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: Online discussion - we need you help
=20
What about what I sent a little while back? Is that the sort of thing =
you
had in mind? Let me know and I will post it. By the way, does the site
guide me on how to post comments, or is there some special e-mail =
address I
should use? Please assume I'm an idiot about these things.
=20
Thanks,
=20
Fernando
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: James Lang [mailto:jameslang@supermail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:45 PM
To: 'Fernando Mederos'; 'Perilla, Julia'
Cc: deanpeacock@earthlink.net; 'Lucy Ann Carter'
Subject: RE: Online discussion - we need you help
=20
Hi Fernando,=20
=20
It would be great if you could jump in to help move the conversation
forward. Please let us know if you will not be able to post something by
tomorrow.=20
=20
All the best,=20
=20
James=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Fernando Mederos [mailto:f.mederos@verizon.net]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:34 PM
To: jameslang@supermail.com; 'Perilla, Julia'
Cc: deanpeacock@earthlink.net; 'Lucy Ann Carter'
Subject: RE: Online discussion - we need you help
=20
I can't promise, but I will try to do it tomorrow early. I will read =
the
comments now. I am in the midst of another deadline.
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: James Lang [mailto:jameslang@supermail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:40 PM
To: 'Fernando Mederos'; Perilla, Julia
Cc: deanpeacock@earthlink.net; 'Lucy Ann Carter'
Subject: Online discussion - we need you help
=20
Dear Fernando and Julia,=20
=20
I hope you are both well. I would like to offer a suggestion for an
intervention from you as "the facilitators" of this online discussion. =20
=20
To help enliven the conversation, I think it would be very useful if one =
of
you could send in an email today that re-states some of the questions =
that
you posed at the end of your paper, or that poses more general questions =
on
the topic to which you would like to hear responses. There are around =
850
people on this list - many of them practitioners that are very =
interested
and well versed in CCR and BIP initiatives. The group, however, could =
use a
little encouragement and focus from you.=20
=20
There is an interesting silence right now - and it may reflect the =
tensions
and fears of some to work more closely with BIPS - but lets try to pull =
some
folks out and talk about these tensions. Please let me know if one of =
you
can send out such an email today.=20
=20
Many thanks, =20
=20
James Lang=20
=20
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C3260D.3777BC10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fernando,
Thanks for your email. What =
you
wrote is a very good start, and I have a few suggestions, 1) perhaps you =
can
add some of your reflections on the current postings, and 2) =
listing the
entire set of the questions from the paper over again may be =
overwhelming.
Can you focus on, or recast in some way, the three or four most =
important
questions for you – we can move on to other questions next =
week.
Also, there are three good =
contributions
that are “pending” - they will be posted tomorrow =
– but
I had to hold them from the list and return to the authors because one =
was too
long and the other did not cite the references. I will send these =
to you next
so you can have a feel for other opinions.
Perhaps Dean or Lucy will have =
additional
thoughts?
Finally, to post an email, just =
send it
to:
pemv-net@communityforum.net
Many thanks for your consideration =
in this
process.
James
-----Original =
Message-----
From: Fernando Mederos
[mailto:f.mederos@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, May
29, 2003 5:41 =
PM
To: =
jameslang@supermail.com
Cc: =
deanpeacock@earthlink.net
Subject: RE: Online =
discussion -
we need you help
What about what =
I sent a
little while back? Is that the sort of thing you had in =
mind? Let
me know and I will post it. By the way, does the site guide me on =
how to
post comments, or is there some special e-mail address I should =
use?
Please assume I’m an idiot about these things.
Thanks,
Fernando
-----Original =
Message-----
From: James Lang
[mailto:jameslang@supermail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May
29, 2003 6:45 =
PM
To: 'Fernando Mederos'; =
'Perilla,
Julia'
Cc: =
deanpeacock@earthlink.net;
'Lucy Ann Carter'
Subject: RE: Online =
discussion -
we need you help
Hi
Fernando,
It would
be great if you could jump in to help move the conversation forward. =
Please let
us know if you will not be able to post something by tomorrow. =
All the
best,
James =
-----Original =
Message-----
From: Fernando Mederos
[mailto:f.mederos@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, May
29, 2003 3:34 =
PM
To: =
jameslang@supermail.com;
'Perilla, Julia'
Cc: =
deanpeacock@earthlink.net;
'Lucy Ann Carter'
Subject: RE: Online =
discussion -
we need you help
I
can’t promise, but I will try to do it tomorrow early. I =
will read
the comments now. I am in the midst of another =
deadline.
-----Original =
Message-----
From: James Lang
[mailto:jameslang@supermail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May
29, 2003 12:40 =
PM
To: 'Fernando Mederos'; =
Perilla,
Julia
Cc: =
deanpeacock@earthlink.net;
'Lucy Ann Carter'
Subject: Online =
discussion - we
need you help
Dear
Fernando and Julia,
I hope
you are both well. I would like to offer a suggestion for an =
intervention
from you as “the facilitators” of this online =
discussion.
To help
enliven the conversation, I think it would be very useful if one of you =
could
send in an email today that re-states some of the questions that you =
posed at
the end of your paper, or that poses more general questions on the topic =
to
which you would like to hear responses. There are around 850 =
people on
this list – many of them practitioners that are very interested =
and well
versed in CCR and BIP initiatives. The group, however, could use a =
little
encouragement and focus from you.
There is
an interesting silence right now – and it may reflect the tensions =
and
fears of some to work more closely with BIPS – but lets try to =
pull some
folks out and talk about these tensions. Please let me know =
if one of
you can send out such an email today.
Many
thanks,
James
Lang
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C3260D.3777BC10--
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 30 01:17:44 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 18:17:44 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Please disregard the last email (From PEMVnet Moderators)
Message-ID: <004801c32649$48c7fd40$4f79510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMV-net Participants,
Please disregard the last posting to our discussion list. This was meant
for an individual and not for the entire group. We apologize for this
inconvenience and will prevent it from happening in the future.
We look forward to further conversation on our current topic.
Best regards,
PEMVnet Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 30 01:31:39 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 18:31:39 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Cultural Competence (from Natalie Sokoloff)
Message-ID: <005f01c3264b$389b2440$4f79510c@jimmy88>
In reference to the posting from Pat McGann:
One of the problems with thinking about culturally competent services is =
to
understand the social structural conditions of inequality within which =
they
operate. Social structures of inequality mean that poor men of color in
particular are at significant disadvantage in relation to white men and =
this
too often gets interpreted as something is wrong with people of color.
Rather, what is wrong is the socially structured systems of inequality =
that
oppress and subvert the actions of poor men and women of color, which =
leads
to some of the violence in their communities. (Always remember that =
great
violence is being done AGAINST members of those communities all the =
while
that violence is occurring within them as well.) White men benefit =
here--all
too often. (This of course does not address your question directly =
about
not letting white men who batter off the hook; but it does address some =
of
the interconnectedness between them, white men who don't batter, and men =
in
poor and minority communities who are brutalized by the larger system as
well as who brutalize members of their own communities.) What is =
important
to remember here is how different communities experiences of violence =
are
mediated through structural forms of oppression, such as racism,
colonialism, economic exploitation. It is not a simply one-to-one
relationship between violence by an individual man against an individual
woman that is at issue here. If it were, we would have been able to =
solve
these problems. And it is not just that cultures are different. In =
fact, I
think that traditional cultural competence models do exactly as you =
fear:
all too often it seems like something is "wrong" with the "other"
culture--as if white middle class culture is the answer to DV. As we =
know,
it is not. There are great strengths in diverse cultures which don't =
get
looked at when they are devalued. Instead, we just focus on the =
"faults" of
the "othered" cultures, never understanding the role of the dominant =
culture
and its structual and economic bases in violence against women in =
cultures
that are labeled as "other" and the problem. None of this "lets =
batterers of
color off the hook." To make homes safe for women and children and for =
men
to take responsibility for and to stop battering are very much a part of =
the
issues that must be dealt with. One person whose work is useful in this
area is that of Rhea Almeida, from New Jersey. Rhea Almeida and Ken
Dolan-Delvecchio. 1999. Adressing Culture in Batterers
Intervention: The Asian Indian Community as an Illustrative Example.
VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN 5 (6), 654-.=20
She uses a "Cultural Context Model", which is very different than the
traditional "cultural competence models"--precisely because it =
understands
the issues of racism, colonialism, and economic oppression in the =
picture of
domestic violence.=20
Another person whose work is very good is Uma Narayan. Uma Narayan. =
1997.
Cross-Cultural Connections, Border-Crossings, and "Death by Culture:"
Thinking about Dowry-Murders in India and DV Murders in the US. =
DISLOCATING
CULTURE: IDENTITIES, TRADITIONS, AND THIRD WORLD FEMINISM, Ch. 3. NY:
Routledge.
My own book, deals with these issues very directly. It will be =
available by
mid-late 2004 from Routledge. Natalie J. Sokoloff and Ida Dupont. =
Domestic
Violence: Examining the Intersections of Race, Class and Gender. In =
Natalie
J. Sokoloff. DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE: AT THE INTERSECTIONS OF RACE, CLASS, AND GENDER in the US. To =
be
published by Routledge (NY), 2004.
Natalie J. Sokoloff, John Jay College of Criminal Justice, CUNY
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 30 04:45:35 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:45:35 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Cultural issues (from Tasha Pera)
Message-ID: <000d01c32666$50370a90$4978510c@jimmy88>
Community Forum:
Thank you so much for initiating this very important discussion group.=20
Regarding the alternatives to CCRI, I agree with the three initiatives
suggested. As a social worker, there is one issue that I have been =
pondering
about re preventative community education/reflection of our cultural
backgrounds. I happen to work with abusive parents and their children. =
Over
and over again, I hear from parents of various cultural groups that =
their
way of disciplining their children stems from their culture. I recognize =
the
relevance of this argument and realize that various methods of =
discipline
and/or abuse are learned within the culture. Interestingly enough, =
however,
every race and ethnicity has a particular form of abuse that can be
designated as specific to their group. I believe that violence against =
women
and same sex partners is no different in this regard. Why can't we state =
our
first initiative with a message that their is a common denominator =
amongst
all races and ethnicities, and that is what we are attempting first of =
all
to educate ourselves about...and to learn to prevent from happening. =
Then
add the other initiatives. It seems to me that one way we can begin to
develop some trust between various ethnicities is to look at how we are =
the
same as human beings...as well as how we are different.=20
And a whole other discussion that can be raised is: what about family
dynamics and how they get carried down through the generations. And what
part does alcohol and/or drug abuse play in battering? Should that issue =
be
dealt with before addressing the battering? And another question: How =
much
does a person's lack of impulse control factor into the battering =
problem?
Again, thank you for offering this very important on-line discussion. I =
look
forward to some feedback.
With warm regards,
Tasha Pera,=20
Child Welfare Worker
Bay Area, California
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 30 17:14:55 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:14:55 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Cultural issues from Tasha Pera (from Maureen Manning-Rosenfeld)
Message-ID: <002c01c326ce$fe3f36e0$1779510c@jimmy88>
Greetings everyone. I'm enjoying the forum, and wanted to respond to =
some of
Tasha's questions. As a white, Jewish woman who has co-facilitated a BIP
group for over 21 years, I have been told by numerous men that their
culture, or religion, condones their violence to their partners =
(Christians,
Muslims, African-Americans, Asians, Latinos, and even Caucasian
Southerners). My response has always been to define their abuse as
unacceptable and criminal, and explain that we will now learn =
non-violent
ways to resolve conflict without the oppressive use of power and =
control.=20
Although we're respectful of all cultures, all group members must =
operate
under our definition of abuse. I agree that family dynamics play a big =
role.
We often discuss the inter-generational patterning present, and the vast
majority of our clients will identify having witnessed abuse of their =
mother
by their father, and in many cases report having also been abused =
themselves
by one or both parents. This is a concept where we can often "grab their
attention," because in explaining abuse as a family legacy, we ask them =
to
project 10 or so years into the future and think of their own children =
as
victims or perpetrators of abuse. Many men are moved by this idea and =
have a
new motivation to stop modeling violence in their home.
Regarding alcohol and drug abuse, we view addiction and violence as two
separate, primary problems that BOTH need treatment. We explain it as a
correlation, not a cause and effect. I am in the camp that prefers
simultaneous, not sequential, treatment. I want him in our BIP group =
right
away, (provided he is receiving chemical dependency counseling), because =
I
believe that to delay our program until he completes the other first =
only
endangers his partner.
As a professional counselor, I agree that lack of impulse control and =
other
symptoms are sometimes present, and it's important to look at the whole
person. I worry sometimes about programs that are educational-only =
formats,
fearing that some issues may not be addressed. Best wishes to everyone =
as we
continue in this work.
Maureen Manning-Rosenfeld, MS, LCPC, ICDVP
Director of Client Services
Community Crisis Center
Elgin, Illinois
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri May 30 21:20:37 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:20:37 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] anti-oppressive definitions (from Harry Brod)
Message-ID: <000f01c326f1$51654130$1779510c@jimmy88>
I support much of what Maureen Manning-Rosenfeld says, and especially =
like
the "attention grabber" of asking men to project into the future the =
effects
of their actions upon their children. But I'm concerned about the =
statement
that "all group members must operate under our definition of abuse." As =
a
teacher I too have at times fallen back on the "in this class we will =
use
this definition" approach, but when I do so I always consider it an
educational failure. I believe that by this declaration I am losing the
person who does not agree with my definition. I do it when I am forced =
(by
institutional constraints of too many students and too little time) to =
make
a decision to cut our losses, to lose the individual who doesn't agree =
with
the definition rather than lose more students were I to take the =
necessary
time to reach with that person at least a tentative working agreement on
definitions that we can both live with. I'm not recommending giving up =
on
holding on to correct and necessary principles, but rather finding ways =
to
really respect differences while still maintaining the integrity of =
one's
own understanding of the issues.
I am particularly concerned when a white person uses this
authoritative/authoritarian approach with people of color (or a middle =
class
person with poor people, etc). I worry that in this case how something =
is
said may be more important than what is being said. The verbal message =
is
against "the oppressive use of power and control," but when the =
definition
of abuse is imposed by power and control why should these men take it
seriously? Why would men of color accept being told by a white woman =
that
they must "define their abuse as unacceptable and criminal," when a =
white
power system routinely labels much of their non-abusive behavior as
"unacceptable and criminal?" I much prefer approaches such as those
recommended by others in this discussion, where we reach for ways of
articulating anti-oppressive principles from within oppressed cultures
rather than impose on them anti-oppressive definitions from the
dominant/dominating culture in ways that may themselves be oppressive.
I echo Maureen Manning-Rosenfeld's closing "best wishes to everyone as =
we
continue in this work."
Harry Brod
University of Northern Iowa
USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat May 31 00:29:58 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:29:58 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] culture and men's programs (from Wally Roth)
Message-ID: <000201c3270b$c59fbed0$0e77510c@jimmy88>
As men's program providers for many years now, we've tried many =
different
models and approaches to ending men's violence against their partners. =
It's
not dissimilar to each man's partner trying different ways to get him to =
end
his abusive behaviors. Now we're trying a more respectful approach; a =
more
community centered approach; a more culturally sensitive approach, and =
so
on. Are we still looking for the magic cure, the elixir that will do the
trick?
No matter how we provide our programming, we, the professionals, are =
setting
a standard that all are expected to follow. And yet, for some strange
reason,
the majority of clients are not our peers, i.e., middle/upper-class
males/females, but they are primarily the disenfranchised--the very ones =
who
are often seen in the court system for various offenses. Is that because =
we
define men's violence to mean physical only? What about men's assumption =
of
power over women, no matter what their background? The male culture is =
based
on the notion of male superiority over women, is it not? Failing to =
address
the patriarchal training all men receive leaves us looking for the magic
answer to stopping each man's violence. It's an individualistic approach =
to
a societal problem. While I agree that we need to address our cultural
uniqueness and respect each other's backgrounds, I believe we will not =
be
able to get away from the "punishment model" as long as ending men's
violence against women is not a grass roots movement. For example, =
slavery
has been illegal for many years, yet still flourishes in many forms. We
apparently cannot manage without slavery to keep our standard of living =
as
it is. What keeps men's violence against women so important that all our
expertise still hasn't ended the violence? What will it take for =
violence
against women and children to become a grass roots movement that is
unstoppable? Perhaps that's where we need to put some thought and =
effort.
In the meantime, I am deeply touched when men in our program report how
they've changed their priorities by spending more time with their =
partners
and children instead of trying to impress other males by "getting =
ahead". In
spite of the limitations placed on us by bureaucracies we, as =
facilitators,
can provide a safe forum for men to find out who else they can be. =
That's
what keeps me going, even as I realize we can only offer so much in the
grander scheme of things.
Wally Roth, MSW
Coordinator, Alternatives Program
Saskatoon, SK Canada
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat May 31 01:08:09 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:08:09 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Difficulty w/exceptions and resources (from Nancy Cline)
Message-ID: <000201c32711$1aa341e0$0e77510c@jimmy88>
RE: Phil Mortell and Richard Newman=20
Both Phil and Richard's dilemmas are felt in many places attempting to
address gender relations universally and domestic violence specifically.
There are few spaces where gender issues are thoughtfully and =
respectfully
explored. When publicly explored, it's often in a political arena, where
folks are positioning for money, working to shape political agendas and
ideology, and competing over scarce resources--not typically settings
fostering openness. Add to this the hurt, fears, disappointments, and =
anger
experienced when addressing gender issues in relation to intimate =
partner
violence, it's no wonder we're all struggling to communicate =
effectively,
build trust, and find shared values. We come overloaded and with our =
radar
set, looking out for evidence to support our biases and reinforce our
expected realities. This is particularly true for people who've =
experienced
victimization and oppression-like many of the women and advocates who =
come
to this work because of personal experiences with violence at the hands =
of
men (not excluding those men who come to this work because they've
experienced the pain of watching someone they love commit or be =
victimized
by violence). I can only offer that we be patient with one another and =
seek
our shared humanity despite our flaws, inadequacies, and biases-and the
sometimes low expectations that we have of one another.
So Phil and Richard, thanks for the work that you do and for staying =
engaged
despite the challenges. To Phil, I believe many who work in this area =
are
moving toward recognizing that quality services to men who batter =
constitute
a service to victims-not just something that presents a competing =
interest.
When working with survivors (or living in the skin of a survivor) it can =
be
hard to separate our anger over the victimization from those who serve =
the
men who commit this violence. These are raw and fragile wounds.
Organizations that work with men have the delicate, yet awesome,
responsibility of helping to heal those who wound without losing site of =
the
wounded. This isn't unlike work addressing racism where whites who take =
the
responsibility for stepping up to the plate to address racism must be
willing to shoulder the responsibility not only for our own ignorance =
and
indiscretions, but also the responsibility for the awful actions of =
other
whites (past and present) who have behaved badly. In this process, one =
can
feel attacked, undervalued, and baffled by the resentment harbored =
toward us
by those whose agendas we ultimately hope to support. When having these
conversations, it's important to check ourselves as well as ask others =
to
act accountably toward us. Genuine sincerity creates an avenue for open
dialogue and moves us toward common ground (remembering that it doesn't
always happen as quickly and as painlessly as we might hope).=20
Like Phil, I also see a greater spirit of cooperation between providers =
on a
local level, but take heart; this wisdom eventually reaches those in
positions of political power. It's partly our role to help create this =
shift
by exposing gatekeepers to the excellent work being done in the field. =
Many
federal offices were created when little work was being done with men =
who
batter. The work that was being done was looked upon with great =
suspicion
and, as Richard pointed out, with little expectation of success. =
There's
still much to learn about this area. It's in its infancy, which is one
reason why so many cling to Duluth and nothing but Duluth. There's =
little
else that's been documented to take its place and there's just beginning =
to
be research to support the value of intervention groups with men who
batter-especially those coupled with a larger community response. We're
working ahead of the research curve, seeking out those little rays of =
hope
to keep us going. (In truth Richard, we're all just monkeys at a
typewriter.)
Nancy J. Cline=20
Vera Institute of Justice=20
New York, NYwww.vera.org=20
ncline@vera.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sun Jun 1 21:14:44 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:14:44 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Cultural issues & definitions (from Lisa Fontes)
Message-ID: <001e01c32882$d3bcef60$4a79510c@jimmy88>
As a professional who concentrates more on issues of child abuse--which--as
we all know--co-exists in about half of families with woman-abuse--I have
greatly appreciated the sensitive discussion of cultural issues here. I
will speak more from my experience with child maltreatment--but I believe
there's a parallel. (I offer these with a sense of humility &
trepidation--I am NOT an expert on men's violence).
I find this question of definitions of what's abusive and who gets to say
to be extremely important. It seems to me that one of the major ways in
which people grow and change is to be invited into new definitions. There's
a fascinating article on 22 African American and White mothers who
spontaneously stopped using corporal punishment against their children--in
almost every case it was because something had changed (The look in the
child's eye, a sudden memory of how they themselves had been treated) that
made them define what they were doing to their children as "wrong" and
decide to stop. The mothers described this definitional shift as THE MOST
IMPORTANT factor in their changed behavior. (The citation is in my
office--it was in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence).
In another article, in Child Abuse & Neglect, a study was reported in which
adults checked off behaviors they had been subjected to as children, and
then whether or not they thought they were abused as children, and then
whether they used those behaviors with their own children. In a nutshell,
those adults who had been subjected to physically abusive behaviors as
children and DEFINED those behaviors as abusive, were much less likely to
inflict those behaviors on their children than people who had been
subjected to the same behaviors but had not labeled them
as abusive. In other words, again, reaching a new definition was key to
their NOT carrying the abuse across to the next generation. (full citation
in office, sorry).
So I think it is key that people who work with men who are violent against
their partners help them into new definitions of acceptable behavior, and
not be over-inhibited by fears of cultural imperialism.(yes, within a
context that takes into account oppression and culture, but still gives the
man the responsibility to choose to perpetuate or alter his behavior). I
guess the question is how to do it respectfully and in a way that is
effective. I see increasing numbers of well-meaning white people being so
afraid of possible accusations of racism/cultural imperialism that they tie
themselves into knots and fail to give sufficiently assertive treatment to
people of color--treating them with kids gloves and as--frankly--alien.
This leaves the most vulnerable--typically women and children--at risk.
Finally, what is "cultural" often depends on who in the culture gets to do
the defining. For a great book on this question, check out, "Is
Multiculturalism Bad for Women" edited by Susan Okin. This edited
collection of essays from people all over the world addresses violence in
many chapters, and the ways in which "protections of cultural rights"
(e.g., to use the veil, genital mutilation) USUALLY involve issues that
oppress women.
Thanks for the stimulating discussion, and I applaud you all in your work.
Lisa Fontes, Ph.D.
Editor, Sexual abuse in Nine North American Cultures: Treatment &
Prevention (Sage)
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 2 15:14:59 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:14:59 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Some ways our program reaches out to non-court mandated abusive men (From Chris Huffine)
Message-ID: <001201c32919$bc7c4d90$3b77510c@jimmy88>
In Oregon, two thirds of the batterer intervention programs see almost
exclusively court-mandated men. Our batterer intervention program at
Men's Resource Center is unusual in that a quarter of the men are
neither court nor children's services mandated.
There are a number of things that we do to make batterer intervention
more attractive to non-court-mandated abusive men. One is our
willingness to use words like "anger" and "anger management" in our
brochures and on the phone. Yes, we know that domestic violence is not
about anger, but about power and control. But, "anger" and "anger
management" are cultural euphemisms for abuse and control. If you show
me a man with "anger problems", 19 times out of I'll show you a man
with underlying power and control issues. Rarely do we have men or women
call our agency asking if we can help them or their partner who is a
"batterer" or has "problems with abuse." However, we regularly get calls
about people needing help with their "anger" and needing "anger
management." We talk about their "anger", set them up for an intake to
get into a group about "anger", and at intake ask them about various
forms of abuse and control. Virtually always there is a positive history
of those behaviors and they end up in one of our violence intervention
groups.
A second thing that we do is require men to complete and share
"journals" on actual events taking place in their lives. These journals,
a hybrid of Duluth's control log, a traditional anger journal, plus some
added features, help men examine how they are behaving in their lives in
terms of their own self-management and to what extent they are being
abusive or controlling in a given situation. Having journals regularly
shared in the group firmly grounds the group in real life situations,
concrete behaviors, and how men are handling themselves in terms of
staying respectful of others. This creates a supportive atmosphere with
a lot of real world relevance that many of the men seem to value. For
many this is one of the few places they can count on genuine support
from other men in living their lives in an accountable manner. I think
this is one reason why men can be slow to leave--there is a lot of
intrinsic value in the group for them that is difficult to give up.
A third thing we do is offer a balance of confrontation with a
supportive, encouraging environment. A recent study of our program,
involving interviews of a dozen group completers, found that one of the
most important elements of the group to most of those men was the
balance between confrontation and support.
Finally, I think we get a number of our non-court referrals because we
do a lot of community outreach, offer free trainings, send out fliers,
and through word of mouth among therapists, attorneys, and employers.
Another significant factor is program completers referring other men to
our program. We regularly encourage men to do outreach to others they
see as having problems with abuse and control although we don't say they
have to come to our agency. This is akin to the 12th step of the 12
steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I think we all need to be giving more thought to how we can do outreach
to community partners (other than the courts) to encourage abusive men
to get help as well as reaching out directly to those men.
Chris Huffine
Men's Resource Center
Portland, Oregon
Chuffine@pacifier.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 2 15:57:28 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:57:28 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] some reflections and questions to move the discussion forward (from Fernando Mederos)
Message-ID: <002201c3291f$abce39d0$3b77510c@jimmy88>
It is awe-inspiring to experience the acuteness and breadth of =
experience of
participants in this dialogue. I would like to address three issues:
1. It seems that this article has not yet provoked as many replies as =
the
first online discussion. Is there reason for concern? Race, class, =
culture
and ethnicity are controversial topics in American society. People =
often
fear saying the wrong thing, being labeled, being seen as racist or as
cultural imperialists, as Lisa Fontes points out. Perhaps it is useful =
to
invite everybody to adopt a self-in-struggle perspective: we begin by
admitting that we are confused, have myriad questions about race, class,
ethnicity, culture, gender justice, privilege, etc. And many of us are
enmeshed in complex webs of privilege and domination, though oppression =
and
lack of access to resources fall more heavily on some. If we are in
struggle, we don't have to be right, to know so much and to have figured =
it
all out. We can engage in respectful dialogue and strive to be
non-judgmental. Participating in these dialogues is crucial to
understanding and challenging all forms of oppression.
2. A lot of the dialogue has centered around cultural competence. The
tradition in batterer intervention programs is to avoid questions of =
race,
class, culture and ethnicity and to focus strictly on gender oppression. =
As
Maureen Manning-Rosenfeld points out: "I have been told by numerous men =
that
their culture, or religion, condones their violence to their partners
(Christians, Muslims, African-Americans, Asians, Latinos, and even =
Caucasian
Southerners)." This overlooks the fact that men who batter have a =
vested
interest in presenting their behavior as the social norm for their =
milieu
and that they frequently present stereotypic and one-sided views of =
their
cultures. Is it wise to surrender culture/race/class/ethnicity to men =
who
batter or their apologists? Is that not overlooking cultural strengths =
or
aspects of manhood in many cultures that support respectful and =
egalitarian
relationships with women? =20
I grew up in Cuba. My father was physically and psychologically abusive =
and
embodied traditions of machismo in many ways. His first cousin is =
Jorge, a
contemporary of my father's whom I have known for 50 years. Jorge is
respectful and nurturing to his partner and family and is an egalitarian
decision-maker. He is not violent, coercive or controlling. Jorge and =
my
father were both imbedded in their culture as Cuban men. Jorge is not a
feminist. He derived his sense of manhood from his milieu in Cuba in =
the
1930s onward, and he was somehow able to create a sense of manhood that,
along with his positive characteristics, was also proud, assertive and
fun-loving. In my culture, I see men who embody both of these =
polarities of
manhood. When I established batterer intervention programs for Latinos =
in
Boston in the 1990s, I saw something similar emerge amongst the men I =
worked
with: many group participants realized that within their cultural
traditions and life backgrounds they had clear choices and models of
oppressive as well as nurturing and responsible manhood. This was =
crucial
in their change process.
I believe batterer intervention programs, as well as prevention and
education programs, should help men acknowledge and re-connect with
traditions and values from their life experience and cultural background
that also promote functional and non-oppressive relationships with =
women.
This is one piece of a cultural competence approach. It is also =
important
to add, not by way of apology but by way of clarification, that
acknowledging culture/class/race/ethnicity does not involve a simplistic
cultural celebration model. There are aspects of culture that =
facilitate
oppression. Our job is to be honest about both parts. Rhea Almeida
embodies this understanding.=20
3. As much as I enjoy and appreciate the engagement with cultural
competence, it is not the central concern of our articles. Can we =
expand
the dialogue? Julia and I presented a critical view of batterer
intervention programs and our society's approach to men who batter their
partners. One of our core concerns is that batterer intervention =
programs
that are closely tied to referrals from the criminal justice system have
become the primary focus of our energy and funding to address men who
batter. Our argument is that this approach reaches very few men, and =
that
many battered women refuse to or cannot use the criminal justice system =
as a
resource against their abusers. Should we continue making the criminal
justice system the principal avenue of intervention with men who batter? =
=20
Our point is (a) that we should diversify our approaches and expand
resources to community settings (into prevention and public education), =
and
(b) that we should change the curricula of batterer intervention =
programs so
that they achieve better success at attracting self-referred abusers.
Developing effective public education and prevention programs at the
community level would offer another avenue of support for battered women =
and
would empower men in community settings to challenge each other about
battering and male violence. In our full paper, to be found at
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussion2.php, we present examples of =
community
oriented and culturally based approaches that we and others have =
developed.
This argument raises many questions:
* Does it make sense to develop enhancements or alternatives to our =
criminal
justice/batterer intervention program approach to working with men who
batter? Can these alternative approaches affect the capacity of men to =
talk
to each other about abuse?=20
* How would accountability be defined for such initiatives? Can we have
accountability that encompasses battered women from diverse racial, =
ethnic,
and socio-economic backgrounds whose needs may not be served by the =
systems
we have created? =20
* Do we need to engage in an honest dialogue about how domestic violence
resources are used? Does it make sense to continue allocating resources =
so
unevenly to criminal justice responses when this system provides =
services to
so few battered women and so few batterers? =20
I look forward to the dialogue.
Thanks,
Fernando Mederos
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 2 17:36:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:36:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] The role of Anger Management in BIPs (from Sam Bachman)
Message-ID: <003a01c3292d$82d74900$3b77510c@jimmy88>
In response to Chris Huffine's note:
I have come to some of the same conclusions as Chris...that to appeal to
a wider group of potential clients, use of the anger management term is
acceptable, albeit, not without a few problems. After several years of
encouraging our local courts to use domestic violence program instead of
anger management language and continuing to see anger management
used...we decided to include it in our program name which helps lay
folks, men who don't see themselves as batterers, etc. access the
program without preventing another shaming label.
In our locality there are a number of very short term anger management
programs and a great number of men still end up going to such programs
instead of an actual BIP.
Our experience with groups of approx 75% court mandated vs. 25%
self-referred (for DV and "anger management problems with
partners/children/parents) indicates that by and large most of our
clients do see themselves as having an anger problem. And by the time
they complete the program, if not far before, they have learned what
constitutes abuse and have worked hard to learn safe and effective
skills to prevent abusive behavior.
The language and centralizing utilization of "power and control" ideas
in pro-feminist oriented batterer intervention programs is not the only
set of possible centralizing ideas. In ADAPT (and other programs
derived from Steven Stosny's "Compassion Workshop", we use the language
of self-empowerment and development of compassion (and self-compassion)
as an antidote to the unregulated hurt feelings that cause anger. When
hurt/shameful feelings are felt in the context of attachment
relationships (feeling one or more of the following: disregarded,
unimportant, accused, guilty/mistrusted, devalued, rejected, powerless,
unlovable) and these feelings go unregulated, many tend to blame these
feelings on others. Of course in male violence we see the male feeling
bad and blaming his partner.
One of the advantages to this approach is that we see and teach that
anger is not really the problem...but secondary to the unregulated
shame....so the solution is to help folks learn to self-regulate/heal
their shame. Then when one accepts responsibility for one's feelings,
anger does not result and neither does any form of coercive control,
emotional or physical abuse. Not only does this resonate with abusers
and victims, it gives them the opportunity to learn new and practical
skills that make them better partners, parents and even adult-children.
This approach better engages men and women court ordered or voluntary
and it both reduces violence and abuse and makes one much less likely to
tolerate abuse as a victim as well.
I mention these ideas not as self-promotion but to provoke our
collective thinking about how we view the problem. As I learned in
graduate school, how we define and conceptually think about a problem
will determine the nature of the solutions that we develop. I think
consideration of Stosny's compassion workshop model has much to teach
the field of BIP providers.
For a nice summary of Stosny's theory please see:
http://www.behavior.net/forums/archives/shameandaffect/1998/3_5-23.htm
He has some online articles available at this website:
http://www.compassionpower.com/articles.html
His book on the subject is, "Treating Attachment Abuse: A Compassionate
Approach" (NY: Springer Pub. Co., 1995).
Sam J. Bachman, MSW, Coordinator
ADAPT: Anger & Domestic Abuse Prevention and Treatment
sbachm@fairfaxcounty.gov
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 2 20:07:23 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:07:23 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Learning and Growing (from Bruce Wood)
Message-ID: <000b01c32942$97673690$3b77510c@jimmy88>
Well, after several weeks of "lurking" and following the discussion I =
would
like to offer some very personal observations on "BIPS"
I have been working with Assaultive Men in community, institutional and
First nations programs for over twenty years now. In addition I was =
involved
in the "first wave" of anti sexist men's groups in the 70's and 80's =
here in
Canada. My practice and approach have shifted and changed dramatically =
over
these decades in part through lessons learned from my First Nations
colleagues and also from the men themselves. I have also been confronted =
by
my own 'fallibility" as a man, partner, father and professional.
A serious consequence of what I call the "stern parent" approach to =
working
with assaultive men is the death of some of those men- partly =
attributable
to our inability to balance caring with 'accountability". Over the years =
I
have been involved with 8 men who have taken their own lives while
participating in "batterer intervention programs". Their deaths have
provided me with opportunity to examine my approach and our need to =
separate
out groups of individuals whose actions we/I abhor. Collegial responses =
to
these deaths have ranged from "well now he can't hurt another woman" to =
"
How sad for the children".
The Duluth model rolled across Canada in the 80's and 90's gathering up =
many
men's programs in it's wake. Here too the acceptance of this education =
model
was such that programs not using the Duluth approach were called to =
account
for their difference. Over time the Duluth model (particularly as it =
applies
to direct work with assaultive men) has been dropped by one program =
after
another throughout western Canada. I cannot answer for all the programs =
who
made this choice but I know that for many the approach was seen as
"uncaring", "inflexible", "paternalistic"," joined too closely with the
criminal justice system", and "negating important aspects of culture and
acculturation in First Nations communities". One colleague with a North
Vancouver program described the experience as one where she was invited =
to
view the men in the program as "subjects/ objects" rather than as human
beings.
In Canada there is a growing movement to change our work with men who =
batter
starting from within ourselves. This means changing the way that we as
facilitators, trainers, groups leaders and counselors relate to the men =
in
our programs. Some of us have confused ourselves for police officers =
while
others have worked with men from a position of righteous indignation. =
Most
of us have not wanted to see any commonality between ourselves and men =
who
assault women. In the 1980's when we would picket pornography shops =
wearing
turkey costumes or demonstrate in front of all men's social clubs we
received great press coverage and positive remarks from some in the =
women's
community yet our actions rarely engaged the men we wanted to address.=20
The "open hands" approach to this work invites men to join with us in
changing themselves and then the societal conditions which support woman
abuse. They are unlikely to go beyond where they are compelled if our
attitude and approach are disrespectful, condescending and distant. The
"open hands" or respectful intervention discussion taking place in =
Canada is
being led by people like Dale Trimble, Harry Stefanakis, Todd Scott and
myself. Our insights have been informed by the work of First Nations =
women
and men who have stood up and called us to account for using the tools =
and
tactics of power and control in BIPS. How sad to think that for myself =
(and
others) it took over twenty years to figure out that adult men can be
challenged with respect and in dignity.
Bruce Wood MA
Changing Men Consulting
Saskatoon
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jun 3 16:07:38 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Stereotypes & Cultural Competence (from Barbara Lambert)
Message-ID: <000e01c329ea$4206e4e0$1578510c@jimmy88>
I was moved by the message from Phil Mortell and his struggles with the
shelter programs as he treats the men who batter. I have run into those
same stereotypes in California where the BIP program was next door to =
the
Outreach Program for the survivors. I would go to their facility with a
survivor to seek services for her and felt as though I was being knifed =
with
their eyes, they somehow identified me with part of the problem instead =
part
of the solution. We tried to get their assistance with our BIP program =
so
that the program would remain accountable and continue to hold the =
offender
responsible. We all recognized that it is easy to become seduced by the
offender's rhetoric. However, we were unsuccessful.
Here in New Mexico, I started a BIP and was eagerly welcomed by the
local shelter and later invited to become part of their board of =
directors.
I was stunned but ever so grateful for the support behind the scenes as =
the
BIP got off the ground. It was the shelter director who was able to get =
the
prosecutors and judges on board with what I was trying to do. Since =
then,
our program has given birth to two more programs at different agencies =
and
we've been successful in getting state legislation passed that opens the
door for mandatory 52-week treatment for batterers.
I often find myself running into the question "Do you think it =
works?"
The stereotype that offenders are untreatable is pervasive. My =
supervisor
wants me to concentrate on the mental health needs of the community and
seems unable to recognize how this one issue impacts so many other =
health
and mental health issues. (I work at a rural hospital.) I suspect she =
sees
this as a criminal issue only when the dynamics are far more before the
issue becomes criminal.
I applaud Maureen Manning-Rosenfeld's approach. Regardless of =
ethnic
culture when I start talking to men about what they are teaching their
children, they do begin to wake up. This seems to be the best way to =
help
the men achieve Kohlberg's next level of moral development. The men
identify with what they witnessed as children, the promise that "I'll =
never
be like..." and how it paradoxically causes focus on what they don't =
want,
and then begin to see how they are repeating the same pattern thereby
setting up their son's and daughter's future. In the groups I =
facilitate,
there is a combination of psychosocial education and psychotherapy. I =
go
with a topic to discuss, if necessary, but quite often take the lead of =
the
men and the topics they bring up during the check in. By being open to
their needs, I have seen some miracles. I've also had to dismiss some =
folks
for lack of cooperation/attendance. I've also seen that some offenders =
have
to do the program twice.
If we ascribe to learning theory, then what has been learned can be
unlearned once it is brought into the light of day. This is true of
facilitators, offenders and the general public. But we have to point =
out
what is violence, all violence not just physical violence, so that =
people
have the opportunity to wake up. I often point this out to people by =
asking
when did a romantic pass become "he hit on me". The work continues...
Barbara Lambert, LISW
Choosing Harmony
blambert@rmchcs.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jun 3 21:39:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:39:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Stereotypes & Cultural Competence from Barbara Lambert (from Karen Andrews)
Message-ID: <000a01c32a18$8f5e00b0$5777510c@jimmy88>
To all, thank you so much for the opportunity to learn from all of you!
This has been a fascinating series of discussions so far, and I look
forward to the ones to come.
As an advocate for women I have been a part of the battered women's
movement and the anti-rape movement for many years now. In the past few
years I have had to come to terms with the fact that both movements
essentially grew out of the white feminist movement and left women of
color behind; along with other marginalized communities. Many of us are
re-looking at the tenets of the movement through that lens and finding
that our interventions and long-held beliefs about the "right way" to do
this work are based in mainstream white privilege. That has been hard
to do, but you do it if you believe in social justice.
I think this discussion again forces those of us who have been in the
field for many years to look at what we do through a different lens.
Barbara, your comments and those of Bruce Wood help me to continue to
challenge my attitudes towards not only men who batter, but batterers'
treatment providers as well. Victim service providers historically see
little hope for change with perpetrators, and view perpetrator treatment
programs with suspicion. In our defense, we take our responsibility to
the victims we serve seriously, and are ever aware of the fact we are
dealing in life and death matters. In the years I have been doing this
work three of the clients I worked with have been killed. In those same
years we have seen four of our clients' partners commit suicide, and you
always wonder if but for a narrow stroke of fate our client might have
missed being killed as well.
Our agency has been coordinating a domestic violence impact panel for
the past two years now; a still somewhat unusual and controversial
undertaking for a victim service provider. Controversial because most
impact panels focus on the impact on the adult victim, and it is rightly
seen by the battered women's movement as inappropriate to make victims
responsible for trying to change the behavior of perpetrators. We have
taken an entirely different approach similar to the one you are
describing. We try to remind the panel participants of their own
history of victimization/witnessing domestic violence and the impact it
had on them, and then ask them if they want to pass this legacy on to
their children. We base this on the premise that this is a learned
behavior and that it can be unlearned.
I have been lucky to have colleagues in the Native American community
here in the county who have helped me grow. I was told a story about a
man who lay dying and his grown daughter came to see him one last time.
In her childhood this man had battered her mother and it had affected
her tremendously. As she sat with her father, he could see that she was
angry and asked her why she was angry. She told him about how his abuse
had affected her. The man acknowledged what he had done, but also told
her that it was not right that she was treating him as if she was better
than he was. I never stand up before my largely male audience at the
perpetrator impact panel without remembering that story, because it
really reminded me that it is imperative to separate behavior from a
person's humanity, and that I am not "better" than my audience.
Karen Andrews
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 15:18:17 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:18:17 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Musings (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <000801c32aac$87877990$1278510c@jimmy88>
Dear colleagues and fellow activists:
I would like to share some thoughts from my perspective as a prevention
specialist, who works with men before they become involved with the
justice or treatment systems.
I agree with Fernando's frame of "self-in-struggle" and see my own
growth as tied to my ability to work with men. Much effort revolves
around how to be an ally - to women in the movement, and as a straight
white male, to men and women from groups that have been marginalized. It
is inevitable that I will make mistakes because of my ignorance and
privilege, so my commitment is to minimize them and learn from them.
Accountability to those who I am trying to be an ally to is critical, as
is demonstrated in the case studies and paper. For example, when I
developed an all-male rape prevention program, the workshop was also
offered annually to the women's community so that they would know what
we were doing and be able to comment on it and share insights. Many
comments to this list demonstrate how those from groups with more
privilege must listen to, learn from and honor the wisdom of those with
less. Thus, a second commitment is to work on and be aware of my
privilege and to use it in service of ending it. .
Along with other contributors, I try to understand and empathize with
men's emotional realities and to create a safe space where they can be
expressed. Thus, men in prevention workshops can feel free to express
feelings of powerlessness, of unfairness, their false fear of false
accusation, etc. In empathizing I may not agree with their
interpretation of their experience, and my goal is to provide them with
a different explanation for what they are feeling. As men are able to be
emotionally honest, they realize that what they thought about each other
was not true - i.e., that the perceived norm for masculinity is not as
uniform or as supported as was thought. Breaking down the myth creates
the opportunity to act differently.
In terms of language, although I think in terms of "power and control,"
initially I prefer phrases like "both people must be equally free to
act" to reduce defensiveness.
Sincerely,
Alan Berkowitz
Independent Consultant
www.alanberkowitz.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 15:23:13 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] on Stosny (from Randy)
Message-ID: <000901c32aad$37f640e0$1278510c@jimmy88>
In response to Sam Bachman
I am writing this to you all for I am one of the people that this=20
discussion is about. I am currently in a group that uses a lot of Stosny
ways of thinking with compassion through self regulation, and I believe =
that
it works well if the persons hearing it want to learn it. The group that =
I
am involved in use both anger and control in its group name, witch is =
called
the men's O. P. A. C. group or (out growing anger and control). I guess =
I
should also let you know that I have been involved in this program now =
for
three and a years, first year mandated, I am now a mentor in the groups =
and
I have seen both mandated and non mandated men succeed in this program. =
I
must also mention that I personally feel that another important element =
to
this program is that it is also faith based. while I have read the many
different approaches to the early intervention I feel that one issue =
should
be brought about in this discussion is that when a person is and has =
been
abusive, which is usually a life long issue and struggle ,and all of the
sudden he finds himself wrapped up in the legal system, and yes this is =
are
own fault, the first thing that usually happens is that he ends up in =
jail
and then the real anger starts to take place personally feel that this =
is
the point that early intervention should start as mentioned in some of =
the
responses outreach needs to start there as well.
thank you all for letting me have my say
randy
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 15:30:14 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:30:14 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] The role of Anger Management in BIPs (from Louise Machen)
Message-ID: <000a01c32aae$32ee4ce0$1278510c@jimmy88>
In response to Sam Bachman when he writes:=20
"I have come to some of the same conclusions as Chris...that to appeal =
to=20
a wider group of potential clients, use of the anger management term is=20
acceptable, albeit, not without a few problems. After several years of=20
encouraging our local courts to use domestic violence program instead of =
anger management language and continuing to see anger management=20
used...we decided to include it in our program name which helps lay=20
folks, men who don't see themselves as batterers, etc. access the=20
program without preventing another shaming label."
Sam brings up an issue here that I think many of us struggle with: How =
do
we create the best possible program, hold ourselves accountable to =
victims
while we hold men fully accountable for their actions, while still =
working
within a system that does not yet choose to get it? For me, =
capitulating to
those who still want to think of intimate partner abuse as an "anger
problem" is not the answer. Sam mentions further on:
"In our locality there are a number of very short term anger management=20
programs and a great number of men still end up going to such programs=20
instead of an actual BIP."
This is, I think, a direct result of good programs not standing firm on =
this
one. If I call my BIP an Anger Management program, why shouldn't the =
judges
be confused enough to send ALL batterers to anger management? Aren't we
then contributing to batterers getting away with brief and inappropriate
treatment that will serve neither them nor their victims? =20
Here in Maryland, and I imagine in many places, we regularly get =
challenged=20
by judges who feel that our programs are too long, or the fees too high, =
or
who wade into waters like, "Isn't he being forced to incriminate himself =
if
you ask him to talk in group?" This is a reflection, I believe, not of
people who don't understand the dynamics [we've educated all of them], =
but
of people who do not take this issue seriously, whose only real desire =
is to
APPEAR to do something about these assaults, rather than to ensure that =
men
are sent to a program that will most greatly benefit them and their
partners. At heart, the community still sympathizes with these men, =
still
chooses to buy into the notion that "it takes two to tango," and is
reluctant to punish a man who was "provoked." As one judge here said of =
our
program length, "26 weeks? Why that's punitive!" Imagine.
So when we make our programs "lesser;" when we tailor them to what the=20
judicial community, or God help us, the men themselves would prefer, =
aren't
we betraying the victims and the women's groups who have worked so hard =
and
long to bring this issue to the forefront?
Stosny's program is a good example of this. While I don't doubt that =
some=20
good things are accomplished there for some men, a 13 week program that
claims miraculous results is just what the courts want -- short and not =
too
onerous. And doing minimal confrontation while telling the men that =
they
batter because their inner child is wounded is just what the men want -- =
to
skate.
I do agree with Sam that we need to work to find ways that accomplish =
what
we need to in ways that encourage men to take part, that avoid shaming =
and=20
celebrate their moving forward. This is, I think, the real challenge of =
our
work, particularly as we move to include men other than those who are
court-ordered. I just can't agree that capitulation is the way to get
there. We should be leading the way, not muddying the path.
Louise A. Machen
House of Ruth
Baltimore, Maryland
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 17:41:52 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:41:52 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Issue of money in BIPs (from Tom Chen)
Message-ID: <001d01c32ac0$9666e900$1278510c@jimmy88>
I really appreciate the great responses that I am reading. I am
wondering if someone can briefly touch on the issue of money in BIPs.
For people that are not court ordered and do not have insurance
policies that cover BIPs, do they often not enter the programs because
of fees that run the range of $150/hr for 36 weeks? For the people
that are court ordered and are required to pay for the services, does
this manifest itself as resentment in the sessions? I am assuming that
victim services are publicly funded or charity based, can the same be
done for BIPs?
Sincerely,
Tom Chen
Amherst College Men's Project
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 18:14:07 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:14:07 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: some reflections and questions to move the discussion forward (from Andy Peck)
Message-ID: <002301c32ac5$177da520$1278510c@jimmy88>
The questions posed by Fernando Mederos and Julia Perilla are daunting. =
I=20
find them profoundly important. Concretely, I think the case studies =
give=20
us good clues toward solutions. Here are some reflections these =
questions=20
have inspired for me, more about the process of dialogue than those=20
concrete answers.
I sometimes lose sight of what at other times I believe are the larger=20
goals of my work -- that work being an aspect of my life -- that life =
being=20
shaped by its historical and communal context -- that context belonging =
to=20
a universe that is ultimately loving.
Like others, this discussion has reminded me that when I limit my goals =
to=20
affecting "men who batter/men who rape" or even to "ending men's =
violence,"=20
when I isolate them or that behavior, I have a greater tendency to miss =
the=20
fact that I (or my organization or my institution) am part of the change =
that needs to be made, the change being made.
Put another way, the goal of my work is not to corral those "men who=20
batter" or "men who rape" and "hold them accountable." The goal of my =
work=20
is not even really to end men's violence or intimate partner violence,=20
particularly not in the narrower understandings of the word=20
"violence". The goal of my work is to fulfill my role(s) and=20
responsibilities in a process of social transformation embodying =
principles=20
of peace, love, and justice (principles which clearly need to be =
defined,=20
though there isn't space to do that here). In seeking these roles and=20
responsibilities, my identities as a white, straight, middle-class,=20
American, man are highly relevant -- not as a way to differentiate =
myself=20
from others but to become accountable to my interconnections with them.
To the extent that engaging and utilizing the criminal justice system=20
furthers the above goals, I think it makes sense to do so. Like others=20
have suggested, however, I fear that this system has never really =
embraced=20
social transformation in these terms -- and is in many ways predicated =
on=20
contrary principles of coercion, retribution, and punishment.
There is a principle taught in many classes for men who batter, and that =
I've found so important for my own life: To consider not only the=20
intentions but the effects of one's behavior, not only the motives but =
the=20
consequences associated with one's actions. And that this awareness is =
a=20
vital link to change. Shouldn't this same principle apply to the =
policies=20
and decisions made by our institutions and organizations, claims to=20
enhancing "safety" and "justice" notwithstanding? I see the intent=20
(unfulfilled so far, in my opinion) of the present discussion as an =
attempt=20
to do this and I am thankful for it.
And, as is the case in many classes for men who batter, before the above =
principle can be realized participants have to learn to listen,=20
particularly to the voices and experiences of those marginalized by=20
dominant cultural traditions. Inviting feedback from others is the only =
way to get certain information that can broaden one's humanity or the=20
humanity of one's policies.
Some questions there, then (reframing those that have already been=20
asked): To whom does the criminal justice system listen? In gathering=20
information to craft policies that enhance "safety" and "justice," what =
are=20
its sources?
In my view, until the answers to those questions change fundamentally, =
or=20
unless our efforts are directed toward that fundamental change, I agree=20
with a central implication of the current discussion: our precious=20
resources need to be placed elsewhere. I don't say that lightly. Hard=20
compromises are probably unavoidable. Yet, first things must also come
first.
Peace to all,
Andy=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 18:46:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:46:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Community-based/Criminal Justice-based responses to male violence (from Richard Newman)
Message-ID: <002801c32ac9$90ed74e0$1278510c@jimmy88>
I would like to respond, tentatively and fuzzily, to the following
question, which Fernando Mederos' asked in his "Moving the Discussion
Forward" email:
>>Should we continue making the criminal justice system the principal
avenue of intervention with men who batter?<<
One of the myths of criminal justice intervention--not only in terms of
violence against women, but also drugs, homicide and other similar kinds
of problems--is that if we catch the perpetrators and devise serious
enough punishments for them, the fear of those punishments will be
sufficient to wipe out the problem for good. The criminal justice
system, in other words, on one level sees violence as something that can
and should be eliminated from society, not as something the capacity for
which exists in all human beings and that is in fact therefore part of
what makes us human. As a result, it seems to me, the criminal justice
system response does not leave much room for forgiveness, and I do not
mean a "turn-the-other-cheek" kind of forgiveness, but rather
forgiveness that is earned--from oneself and the people one has
hurt--through the hard work of personal transformation.
The notion of community, on the other hand, suggests that each member of
the community is responsible for and to every other member; it is, or
ought to be, a model which holds that your quality of life should be as
important to me as mine because your quality of life will shape your
participation in the community and so the quality of life of everyone in
the community. As well, if we truly exist in community, and if we take
the notion of community seriously, then the question of what it means to
shut someone away from the community, i.e. putting them in jail, takes
on a whole different meaning because that action in itself is a
violation of the community. And so the question gets raised: how do we
welcome that person back? What does it mean to forgive someone who has
violated the community? What does the person have to do to demonstrate
that he or she--though in the case of this discussion, he--has earned
the right to be welcomed back to the community? In shit scenario,
criminal justice, in other words, becomes not that which keeps order in
the community, almost as if it existed apart from the community, but
rather one of the tools through which the community orders itself. The
difference is crucial.
I do not work directly either with batterers or survivors, and I am,
frankly, therefore a little nervous about having addressed this question
at such a level of abstraction, but unless one believes that violence is
alien to what it means to be human--which to me is not the same things
as saying that people, in this case men, are inherently violent, i.e.,
likely to act violently--then it seems to me we leave these large
questions aside at our peril. The questions of cultural
competence/sensitivity/awareness that have been raised here, for
example, take on even greater significance when considered in the
context of a community-based response, as does the question of what is
involved in cultural change and how cultures can and do change, often
through very conscious actions on the part of those who want change to
occur.
There's a lot more percolating in my head about this, but I think I will
stop here and wait to hear what others have to say.
Rich Newman
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 18:51:23 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:51:23 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Issue of money in BIPs from Tom Chen (from Chuck Gallun)
Message-ID: <002901c32aca$4de835d0$1278510c@jimmy88>
In reference the query from Tom Chen -
We charge $15.00/hr. We also offer to allow participants to do community
service (2hrs for each hr of group). In 10 yrs, only one person has opted
to do community service. In our community, most of the money for victim
services, comes from a portion of the fines that convicted offenders pay.
Regards, Chuck Gallun, SAFE Project, Pottstown, PA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 20:40:03 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:40:03 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Issue of Money (from Trudy Bennardo)
Message-ID: <000201c32ad9$7aec9260$2e77510c@jimmy88>
An attempt was made to use community service in lieu of fees which ended
because case management was too intense. Many men used community
service instead of fees. In the city of Pittsburgh, PA the fee
structure for court ordered or volunteer clients is a $40 orientation
fee and the remaining 15 classes are according to a sliding scale from
$20 to $50 per group; lower fees are given with appropriate
documentation and a small number is scholarshipped at the request of the
judge.
Trudy
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 21:18:34 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:18:34 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Issue of Money (from Loren Council)
Message-ID: <000301c32ade$dc01d600$2e77510c@jimmy88>
In response to the money question. In Williamsburg VA we charge 50 for =
the
intake then 20 for each session (16). But to your other point. There =
is
some resentment in the groups about the money, but not nearly as much as =
to
time, the courts, etc. It does present a real challenge for some of the =
men
who are un- or underemployed, but given the scarcity of resources
alternatives are moot at this point.
I'm thinking about the more abstract parts of this discussion as well =
and
greatly appreciate what people are saying. I hope to join in there as I =
get
my thoughts in order.
Thanks, Loren
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 4 22:05:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:05:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Issue of money in BIPs (from Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <001201c32ae5$5d5d7870$2e77510c@jimmy88>
When we're talking about costs, can we please address both what the
participants are charged (hourly fees) and where the other funding for =
the
programs comes from? That is, how much of the providing organization's
costs are underwritten by the fees, and how much by private support,
city/county/state/federal grants and contracts?
That $15-$50/hour certainly wouldn't seem to cover the full costs of the
program to the sponsoring organization...
In response to Tom's suggestion that public / charity money go to BIPs =
like
it does to victim services, there already does seem to be a fair amount =
of
public money going in that direction (spoken from the perspective of =
someone
in victim services, facing way more need than we can possibly meet).
-Kelly Anderson
Madison, WI USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 00:35:16 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:35:16 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Reminder: two days remaining for Discussion 2 (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000701c32afa$566472c0$2e77510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
There are only two days remaining in our second discussion "Innovation
within Batterer Intervention Programs: Community based approaches to
enhancing safety and accountability". This discussion will end Friday, =
June
6th at 5 pm US Pacific time. Thank you to those who have contributed to
this interesting discussion. =20
To those who have remained silent so far, we encourage you to =
participate
soon so others will have the opportunity to read and respond to your
posting. As a reminder, please keep you emails fewer than 600 words, =
please
describe the topic of your email in the subject line, and please sign =
your
posting with your email address if you would like others to respond to =
you
directly. =20
There are still a number of questions raised by our facilitators that =
remain
to be discussed, here are a few from the last posting from Fernando =
Mederos:
Does it make sense to develop enhancements or alternatives to our =
criminal
justice/batterer intervention program approach to working with men who
batter? Can these alternative approaches affect the capacity of men to =
talk
to each other about abuse?=20
How would accountability be defined for such initiatives? Can we have
accountability that encompasses battered women from diverse racial, =
ethnic,
and socio-economic backgrounds whose needs may not be served by the =
systems
we have created? =20
=20
Best Regards,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 03:49:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:49:00 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Too early to abandon the CJS ship (from Ward Urion)
Message-ID: <000001c32b15$67494af0$0f78510c@jimmy88>
The goals of the criminal justice system (CJS) haven't been to promote
the promotion of peace, love and justice. It attempts justice but it is
challenged just to accomplish mediocre justice. The battered women's
movement was successful at lobbying representatives across the country
to take action on crimes against women even though the majority of
society was not (and arguably still is not) up to speed with the ideals
of this movement. As a result, the CJS is in the middle of trying to do
behavior modification on a very large scale and to the lowest common
denominator. It will, therefore, always be doing poorer than it ought,
taking up dramatic resources while attempting to stem the tide and
respond to critical issues with the speed of a slug.
But the resources that have been devoted to the system thus far have
been useful in several indirect fashions. I wonder if this discussion
would be going on were it not for the platform that the CJS has provided
the movement in forwarding new insight into violence against women to
the public at large or if there would have been the money necessary to
attract people to the movement to begin addressing men's violence
against women in such a broad systemic fashion. Entropy and ignorance
is still having its drag on reforms. The time that it will take to turn
centuries, if not millennia, of oppression of women is dramatic in
comparison to the 40 plus years that work has been underway and the CJS
fulfills a role of holding ground won. While impatience and
intolerance of the mediocre progress that has been made through the
criminal justice system is warranted, understandable, and good, it
doesn't mean that we're at a point where we can let momentum take it
where it should go, because momentum doesn't exist.
One would think by now that we could cut the strings with the CJS, but I
don't think that would serve the interests of the movement to end
violence against women. Is it time to open to other arenas to begin
work to end violence against women? Absolutely! It is past time that
we step up efforts with institutions of faith and education, etc. around
prevention of violence against and support of women. These various
arenas for opportunities have money and responsibility to put money and
effort into stopping a problem that no doubt their members, et al are
feeling the effects of. We could partner with those in the church,
schools, etc. to combine efforts with what is already happening even if
it means having to fight about semantics, politics and other tics to
broaden the sphere of influence.
The CJS indirectly provides a stage and an audience of many influential
folks to continue the "work" around this important issue while holding
ground won. I wish it weren't so. As one who has been doing this work
for some time in the CJS, there have been times when I've thought we
should abandon this lame horse as a vehicle for change. Hopefully, like
with this forum, people come forward in an attempt to fix it, realize
they can gather their resources and choose to use another venue to
address the problem. Until such time that the seeds of change are
strong and viable we need the CJS to maintain. And while in the mean
time it will feel like pushing Jell-O up hill, it's worth the effort if
for no other reason to attract attention to the struggle.
Ward Urion
Court-Based Victim's Advocate
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 03:52:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:52:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: questions posed by Fernando Mederos (from Sally Jackson)
Message-ID: <000101c32b15$e5605870$0f78510c@jimmy88>
"Does it make sense to develop enhancements or
alternatives to our criminal justice/batterer
intervention program approach to working with men who
batter?"
I believe we are all in agreement that it not only
makes sense, but is imperative if we as a society are
going to end violence. All of the studies that
batterers cannot change are under the current system,
which often hold men accountable, let alone teach them
anything.
Can these alternative approaches affect the capacity
of men to talk to each other about abuse?
That would, hopefully, be an outcome of community
education/BIP programs. The point of this forum was
to discuss men's involvement in ending violence. One
of the most basic thing any man can do is talk about
it with other men. DV flourishes in secrecy, the
women's movement has long ago made this point. Men of
privilege should be using that privilege to see that
this issue isn't pushed to the back.
"How would accountability be defined for such
initiatives?"
Accountability needs to be strictly adhered. BIP
programs could be done concurrently with jail time,
but they should not replace it. BIP programs should
coordinate with victim services, with safety of the
victim first in EVERYONES agenda. We all know as we
develop these programs that there will be a certain
number of men who will come to the program just to
convince his victim that he is "changing" without any
intention of truly learning, growing, or
participating. Program directors need to be honest
about this while communicating with the person(s)
providing victim services.
"Can we have accountability that encompasses battered
women from diverse racial, ethnic, and socio-economic
backgrounds whose needs may not be served by the
systems we have created?"
The intrinsic problem with programs created by people
of privilege is that they create them to suit their
needs. You want accountability that encompasses
everyone - ask women from diverse backgrounds what they
think. There is in a National Coalition Against
Domestic Violence, Coalition's at the state level, and
a network of shelters that provide services to the
above mentioned people. Come up with a system, and
before implementing it, ask people how it could be
improved. Seek, and ye shall find.
Sally Jackson
Madison, WI
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 05:22:02 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:22:02 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] More reflections and questions for discussion (from Julia Perilla)
Message-ID: <000201c32b22$663c82f0$0f78510c@jimmy88>
I have been following the dialogue with great interest and would like to
focus on two issues that appear of special relevance to this forum. =20
The first one is the issue of the mistrust between BIP providers and =
women
who work with survivors. As Fernando and I pointed out in our longer =
paper,
the programs that we chose as the framework of our discussion are quite
different, but they share the commonality of having well-established and
strong collaborations with women who work with survivors (and in one =
case,
with their children). As participants in this forum have pointed out, =
the
reasons for the mistrust are both historical and pragmatic. The =
parallel
but separate paths of the two initiatives in this country made it =
difficult
for many providers and advocates to get to know one another as people
striving towards a common goal and fostered a climate of mistrust, even
hostility. Those of us who came from outside of the battered women's
movement in the US had the advantage of not knowing about what =
constituted
the "correct" approach to the issue; we simply did what needed to be =
done in
our communities, guided by the voices of battered women with whom we =
worked.
We did not need to explain in our ethnic communities the idea of men and
women working together to address a community problem - the challenge =
came
from mainstream providers. We were often seen as increasing the danger =
to
battered women by going outside the parameters of what had been the =
accepted
norms. It took a lot of time, discussion, and bridge building to allay =
the
concerns of the dv community in this regard. For programs rooted in the =
US
battered women's movement, the trajectory was different. It was the
awareness of and commitment to the need to maintain the battered women's
reality central to the work of the BIPs that made their alliance and =
ongoing
involvement with women advocates a cornerstone of their work.
My questions regarding this topic are the following:
1. How can those of us who work directly with men who batter maintain =
our
accountability to battered women and those who work with them, WITHOUT =
this
type of alliance with women advocates?
2. Given the very real and valid concerns that have been expressed in =
this
discussion about the difficulties and challenges of building bridges =
between
advocates and BIP providers, what avenues are open for changing the =
current
state of affairs?
3. How do current CCRI strategies help or hinder this process? Beyond =
this
type of response, what other paths are possible to attain our common =
goals?
Do alternative ways of allocating funds have a role in this process?
The second point I would like to address is a more subtle but, from my =
own
perspective, vital issue in our work with men who batter. Several forum
participants, including Mark Robinson, Harry Brod, Bruce Wood, and =
others,
have brought up the idea that in our work with men who batter we must, =
in
essence, start with ourselves, not setting ourselves apart from them, or
using hierarchical and power based strategies while asking the men not =
to do
the same with their partners. I worked with battered Latinas for five =
years
before starting to work with Latino batterers in 1995. Just as the =
women in
the group I facilitated gave me the words to put in context the fact =
that I
was a survivor of dv (something that my university training, my family =
of
origin and my community had not done until then), my work with the men
helped me to become aware that I too was capable - and at times willing =
- to
use violence. This made me keenly aware of my own humanity and the =
humanity
of those with whom I was working. I think perhaps this is one of the
reasons why in our work with men it is easy to be lured into collusion,
because we hear from the men many of the rationalizations and thought
patterns that we ourselves have used at times. This, I think, is also =
the
reason why our constant contact and collaboration with women advocates =
for
whom the reality of battered women is an ongoing issue, is essential to =
our
work. I need the presence of women advocates to "keep me honest" so =
that I
will continue to challenge and confront - in respectful ways - all forms =
of
violence, whether it comes from the men or from myself. Beyond the time =
the
court mandates batterers to attend our programs, what will keep men
continuing to work on their violence? How do we attract men to do this =
work
before they use violence against their partners? I believe true social
change requires new paradigms and strategies that are informed by our
experience thus far and the innovative strategies and ideas that are
emerging in many places. As Bruce Wood points out, we need to "change =
our
work with men who batter starting from within ourselves."
My questions about this topic:
1. What is the role of BIP facilitators' self-awareness and reflection
in achieving our goal of eliminating domestic violence? What place does =
it
have in current CCRIs?
2. How feasible is it to change cultural norms and standards regarding
domestic violence from within a hierarchical and power-based =
institutional
structure?
3. What would need to change in our approach in order to create
intervention/outreach models that reflect the more egalitarian and just
stance that we are advocating for relationships?
I look forward to our continued dialogue.
Julia Perilla
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 05:24:27 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:24:27 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: CCRI (from Barbara Lambert)
Message-ID: <000301c32b22$bc41b0d0$0f78510c@jimmy88>
I appreciate Karen Andrews struggles in dealing with a coordinated =
effort
among all the parties involved in "treating" domestic violence. We do =
need
both the BIP's and Survivor advocates to keep each of us accountable to =
the
work. We are both "victim advocates", I just happen to define "victim" =
a
little more broadly to include not only the safety of the survivor and
children, but also the offender's childhood victimization. If one =
assumes
the offender learned the behavior, then we must consider his =
victimization
as a child when he watched the violence between his parents. We must =
deal
with the shame that is generated from these experiences, but that is =
hidden
by his anger - his only way to feel in control of his environment.
=20
The need for a CCRI is imperative, but takes on going education by the
facilitators of the BIPs. I spent a wonderful lunch with our family =
court
DV commissioner today. He was very open to my suggestions about how to
improve his observations, make his rulings more balanced, getting the
nonverbal messages from the survivors and treatment recommendations. We
also discussed the financial consequences of having to take a class and =
how
this becomes a therapeutic issue (accountability, communication skills =
with
a female) even with sliding fee scale options. If he continues in this
capacity, we might make this a quarterly event. He's also been involved =
in
our program evaluation so we can better meet his needs and improve our
communication.
=20
Maybe I'm "lucky" in that there is presently no mandated treatment for
DV offenders so this is very fertile ground. I also dislike the term =
"anger
management". This is but one of many components of the BIP. However, =
the
courts refer to us as this (their need to deny their own perpetration??) =
and
it does leave the door open for those who cannot see themselves as
perpetrators just yet (those who are volunteer vs court mandated). =
Because
we are rural (population 20,000) and remote, there are no anger =
management
classes in the area. I know what I do, and I speak out in the community
about the differences between the two. However, I will use the back =
door of
"anger management" for as long as I need to in order to do the work of
domestic violence intervention.
=20
I also appreciate Randy's comments. I have longed to have someone who
is recovering as a batterer to be a co facilitator. I believe that =
these
are the men that must ultimately do the challenging of other men. Thank
you, Randy, for continuing your recovery. These gentlemen and survivors =
in
recovery are important people to have when developing community
accountability regarding domestic violence.
=20
Those of us who come from "privilege" and work with those without
privilege must be open to being taught. Only then can we truly tailor =
the
programs to their needs. I work primarily with Native American males. =
I've
been challenged about my "privilege" several times and always use it to
discuss how the 500 Years War continues in our area. (I live in Gallup, =
New
Mexico, very near to several reservations - Navajo, Zuni, Acoma, Laguna =
-
and hence a battle front. Anglos make up 14% of the population.) It is
wonderful fodder for discovering how the minority has assumed the =
position
of the oppressor within their own culture and how this continues to =
impact
the children.
Barbara Lambert, LISW
Choosing Harmony
blambert@rmchcs.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 05:30:54 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:30:54 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: questions posed by Fernando Mederos (from Sandy Davidson)
Message-ID: <000801c32b23$a3732d30$0f78510c@jimmy88>
I registered for this discussion because I'm deeply committed to ending
violence against women and children and as an Ojibwe woman, I am =
certainly
interested in discussion about race, class, culture, and
ethnicity...although I've been a little shy about writing, I have been
reading each and every entry. =20
I think this topic is difficult to talk about because we are so guided =
by,
and entrenched in, westernized notions...policies, practices, research,
forms...even the "language" we use to address this subject in this
forum...and these notions create many challenges in addressing the
interventions that do not fit within these parameters. =20
Western culture is systematically imposed on every other culture through =
the
use of language, programmatic guidelines, values and policies. Even the
research provided to guide these institutions is not founded in the =
value
systems of the people it impacts the most. So it's not surprising that =
most
interventions fail to account for diversity. Most institutions, =
therefore
most interventions, superficially equate culture with race when the fact =
is,
culture is a way of life guided by customs, beliefs, and values that are
deeply engrained and very diverse. Interventions that fail to =
acknowledge
this both intentionally and unintentionally do a great disservice to the
very people they hope to assist.
I think the discussion papers presented and the resulting discussion is =
a
huge step in moving beyond these institutionalized, one-size-fits-all
interventions that are, for the most part, outdated and mostly =
ineffective,
particularly for communities of color. =20
We find it challenging to talk about institutionalized racism, =
colonization
and cultural incompetence but unfortunately, it's even more difficult =
"undo"
systems that have much to gain by maintaining the status quo. But for =
me,
and for many people I know...the grieving and near loss of language, =
customs
and values has turned into a source of strength and a fierce desire to
reclaim a way of life that is founded on respect for all living
things...respect for women, for children...a way of life that values
tolerance, acceptance, generosity, and humility...these are not bad =
values
to reclaim.=20
I think when we find a way to help our Native men understand and reclaim
these values, we will see a decrease in battering and other forms of
violence.
I've thought for a long time that we have not adequately addressed
interventions for men of color. Yes, I believe it's about power and =
control
when men of color and Native American men batter.these dynamics seem to
prevail in all cultures. And I certainly believe in accountability but I
think the powerlessness, grief and underlying feelings of helplessness =
that
mask their "anger" is different. If this is true, then certainly
interventions would look differently for these batterers and why I
appreciate the efforts put forth by the facilitators of this discussion.
This discussion is a huge catalyst for change. Even posing the =
question,
"Should we continue making the criminal justice system the principal =
avenue
of intervention with men who batter?" tells me that we are in the =
process of
change. This is good because we're moving beyond the one-size-fits-all
mentality and seeking solutions that are both culturally relevant and
expanding beyond what we have become familiar with.
Our systems change work should include a concerted effort to allocate
resources that will expand the groundbreaking efforts begun by the =
founding
mothers of the battered women's movement but will not deplete the =
already
insufficient funding allocated to address violence against women. As a
society, we have made monumental changes in terms of research, systems
change, heightened awareness, acknowledging the link between battering =
and
all systems of oppression. but it's obvious we have a long way to go. =
Early
advocates worked tirelessly on shoestring budgets, with perseverance and
grassroots organizing to make change happen. They "listened" to the
community of battered women and have strategically defined =
interventions,
legislative fixes and other social change efforts based on their needs.
It's an excellent model that could be incorporated as we seek to treat =
the
individual batterer as well as address the systemic problems that plague =
our
efforts.
I look forward to even more discussion
Sandy Davidson
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 15:41:59 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:41:59 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Issue of money in BIPs from Tom Chen (from Pat Kelleher)
Message-ID: <000901c32b79$01800470$1d77510c@jimmy88>
Re: Posting from Tom Chen=20
I have several comments. At our mental health agency that also runs 15=20
groups weekly for batterers, we do not bill insurance companies for two
reasons: 1) there is no axis 1 diagnosis for beating your partner, and =
2)
Our belief system is that an insurance company should not have to pay =
for an
individuals criminal behavior.=20
Group sessions are 2 hours/40 weeks and the normal group rate is =
$25/week.
We also provide some free or reduced rate slots. However, the minute we
request community service in exchange for a free slot, they usually come =
up
with the money. My experience is also that regardless of whether they =
are
required to pay or go for free, they are resentful just to be there.=20
I won't even touch "charity funded" programs, unless the funding is only
used for partner contacts and advocacy for victims.
Pat Kelleher, Massachusetts
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 15:51:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Too early to abandon the CJS ship (from Pat Lupson)
Message-ID: <000c01c32b7a$51f374e0$1d77510c@jimmy88>
Responding to Ward Urion's issue with the criminal justice system (CJS). =
Here's an example of how the CJS is taking a positive approach to =
domestic
violence. For the past six (6) years I have been going into prisons =
(local,
state and federal) speaking directly to the inmates about the impact of=20
domestic violence (DV) and murder resulting from DV has on society.
June 9, 1993 my daughter (26 years) and two grandsons (3 years & 7 =
months)
were murdered in an arson fire by our daughter's husband. This was a =
direct
result of ongoing DV. I talk to the inmates about how the only person we =
can
control is our self - we talk about how DV is all about control and the
ultimate form of control is murder. Every time I see in at least one of =
the
offenders a light that goes off - saying, "I get it - I understand what =
I've
done."
Our position is if just one of those guys in each class - walks about of
there and never raises his hand again in anger, picks up a gun again, =
does
drugs again, drives drunk again, then he has done honor to our kid's =
memory.
We know it's working - the reports from the prison officials are very
reassuring.A0 Many states use this impact of crime concept in their=20
correctional facilities. It's just another way to get to those that have
already demonstrated their anger.
We also speak before government officials that enact our laws; parole =
and
probation agents; police officers; DV agencies and shelters - any one =
that
will listen to how violence and anger can destroy a family.
Our son wants us to also go into schools and talk directly to students =
about
the reality of DV and violence and what it can lead to - a 7 x 9 cell!!=20
That's a little harder - it seems school officials don't want to address =
the
negative.
Thanks for all the energy that's being put into this discussion group =
and to
all those that are working to help educate the world about violence. You
might just prevent another Gina, Shaun and Joshua's murder and a mother =
and
grandmother's heartache.
It's just a thought!
Pat Lupson
Remembering the True Victims
www.rttv.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 16:23:11 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:23:11 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More reflections and questions for discussion from Julia Perilla (from Karen Andrews)
Message-ID: <000d01c32b7e$c3d95620$1d77510c@jimmy88>
I personally doubt whether we can ever really effect change while
operating from within a system that is inherently sexist, racist,
homophobic, etc. The battered women's movement here in the US is coming
to terms with the fact that it was a mistake to tie our efforts so
closely to the criminal justice system, and it sounds like the
perpetrator treatment movement has come to the same conclusion. That at
least gives us common ground to work from! So where do we go now?
I know that the battered women's movement is looking more towards faith
communities, health care providers, and other places where domestic
violence victims (and jury pools!) live their lives. The anti-rape
movement here in the state of Washington has adopted a community
development approach to sexual assault prevention and is trying to reach
out to the grassroots, community-based organizations who are also doing
the work but have not been included in the mainstream,
institutionalized movement. When you ask members of marginalized
communities what prevention looks like from their perspective it is very
different from our approach. Even the concept of safety which is what
we base everything on in the battered women's movement looks very
different through that lens, again because we so connected what we do to
the criminal justice system. We're asking ourselves a lot of hard
questions now...but this is also an opportunity for real growth and
change, so it is an exciting time as well.
Karen Andrews
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 17:17:21 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:17:21 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] cost of BIP's (from Marie Kepler)
Message-ID: <001701c32b86$5394ab50$1d77510c@jimmy88>
As an advocate for domestic violence victims in a rural area where
poverty is high I have ran across many issues of the cost for batterers. =
Our local BIP costs $25 a session. There is no sliding scale. This has=20
been an issue across the board from the beginning. Compared to other =
areas,
people reading this may think that is a minimal cost, but again we are =
in an
area where poverty is an issue. Many people work for minimum wages or
slightly higher if they find work at all. Some batterers do have =
resentment
for the cost. It is usually the victims who hear about it not anyone in
service community.=20
This also can place a strain on victims due to the fact that for a lot=20
of them $100 a month is a large part of their budget. That is money=20
that would buy milk and diapers for the baby or food for the family for=20
the whole month. I have heard regrets from victims that have reported=20
because of both issues. The criminal justice system in this area also =
has
issues with the money. Our local county attorneys are not willing to ask =
for
BIP because they feel the cost is too high. The judges are hesitant to
sentence because of the cost.=20
Then we have the other faction (sometimes with in the same agencies) who =
are saying, "If they wanted rifle shells, beer, or fishing gear they=20
would not have a problem finding twenty five dollars a week." They also =
feel that the cost of the program is not as high as court costs and=20
fines for assaulting their partner. This is not true as our court=20
system is not doing a very good job on prosecuting batterers - they=20
still say victimless prosecution is not possible. When victims refuse to =
testify they fine them for giving false information. One person in an=20
agency here commonly asks the victim (if she mentions the cost and how=20
it effects the family) "what is your life worth?"=20
At this point I am listening to both sides and trying to think of=20
solutions. I see both sides of this argument. In my utopia there is a=20
way to hold batterers accountable and get them the help they need to end =
the violence without leaving the victim feeling guilty or sanctioned=20
because of reporting.
Marie Kepler
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 17:46:12 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:46:12 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Peer Counseling/Support? (from Roger Niesen)
Message-ID: <001c01c32b8a$5b9357d0$1d77510c@jimmy88>
A few years ago I was a student (social work) intern with a domestic
violence project. After the first semester I received a very favorable
evaluation. Shortly after the evaluation the director and staff read a =
paper
I had written for a related class and subsequently informed me that they
could no longer work with me. The subject of the paper was a suggestion =
for
an alternative/additional model of working with men committing domestic
violence, one including "peer" support. My therapeutic perspective (I am =
a
therapeutic child care worker) was at the center of the agency's =
objection.
The director expressed regret that if they are not able to work with a =
man
like me, they may have great difficulty relating to and enlisting =
support
from other men as well. I replied that that concern is well worth =
worrying
about.
This experience seems to illustrate what is being talked about in this
forum. I was discouraged about change then, and am pleased to see by =
this
forum that such discussion and thought is taking place. Below is the =
concept
in abbreviated/excerpted form. I would like to know if anyone is =
familiar
with any peer support programs.
In the area of domestic violence (DV) there is a necessity to put
considerable effort into prevention, otherwise there will be no end, or
reduction in the numbers of people affected, nor easing of the pain. One
part of that effort is community education- a widespread effort to =
inform
people, especially youth, in the dynamics of couples relationships, =
cultural
expectations, and power and control issues. The other part of the =
prevention
effort deals with the abusers. They must be stopped and they must change
their behavior, or abuse will recur. How best to do this has been a =
great
question. A number of theories and programs have been tried, and the =
results
are still not very satisfactory. Abusers are quite resistant to change.=20
.If challenge to unacceptable behavior is to be presented by the entire
community, this should include the community and culture of the abuser.=20
.If we are demanding or asking men to achieve profound personal
transformation, we must also be aware of the scope of emotional demands =
that
process requires. If we expect change in a man's nature to occur, we =
must
help him learn to meet his practical and emotional needs in acceptable =
ways,
and this cannot be done without providing emotional support, just as we =
must
provide the same for women in the empowerment process. This requires a =
level
of compassion and understanding which has understandably not been =
prevalent
in DV efforts. The art of providing the necessary therapy is in =
combining
confrontation of the behavior with acceptance and understanding of the
human. Indeed, a lack of feeling such acceptance, belonging, and =
security
may be the initial emotional source for the violent behavior.
.To prevent DV, we would also hope to encourage abusers to seek and =
accept
help prior to committing violence. Barriers should be minimized to =
encourage
participation.
A peer counselors program might meet some of these needs. If men who had
been abusers could complete adequate training and become mentors, much =
could
be done to fill some of these gaps. Challenging, supportive attention =
could
be offered for minimal fees. Community involvement would be widened, and
role models who had gone through the difficult process could attest to =
the
improvement in their lives.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 17:53:57 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:53:57 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] more thoughts (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <002401c32b8b$70ab9f50$1d77510c@jimmy88>
Dear Friends and Colleagues,
I would like to add a few more thoughts to this very inspiring and
enlightening discussion.
Many have spoken about the need to see and affirm the humanity,
spirituality, and feelings of men who have committed violence, without
condoning or enabling the violent behavior. I would like to suggest
that when we don't do this that we are objectifying men. I feel
hesitant to offer this comment because I don't want to ignore, diminish
or trivialize the profound ways in which men who commit violence against
women (and also the larger culture) objectify women - or the ways in
which cultures of privilege objectify the cultures they oppress. The
best way I have learned to think about this dilemma is to use a phrase
coined by Harry Brod (thank you Harry!) which is : "the disadvantages of
the advantages of being a man."
I find this to be a profound phrase because it on the one had
acknowledges men's privilege while on the other hand it affirms that our
humanity and spirituality have also been damaged by our life
experiences. I would like to suggest that this phrase could also be
used for dominant cultural identities, and that there are spiritual and
emotional "disadvantages" of having privilege.
With respect to the criminal justice system issues, I am slightly
familiar with the concept of "Restorative Justice" and it seems to me
that it is a way of using the judicial system in a manner that is more
affirming of community and of humanity. Can anyone who is more familiar
with this approach say something about this?
Finally, I am struck by how many of the issues discussed here are the
same issues we face in designing primary prevention programs and
interventions for men to prevent violence against women. For example,
men trained to lead workshops that incorporate a consent model
invariably realize in retrospect that they/we may have had sex without
consent in the past. When we realize that there are degrees and a
continuum of perpetration then it becomes more difficult to objectify
and separate ourselves from the men who the system identifies as
perpetrators. Similar to batterers groups, men in "prevention"
workshops are hungry to have honest open discussions with other men
about what it means to be a man and how we have been hurt by a
definition of masculinity that feels unhealthy.
Many thanks to all,
Alan Berkowitz
Independent Consultant
www.alanberkowitz.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 18:25:09 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:25:09 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: cost of BIP's (from Vietta Helmle)
Message-ID: <002f01c32b8f$cc3b6c70$1d77510c@jimmy88>
Here in high priced San Jose, our batterer intervention programs charge =
on a
sliding scale that ranges from $20 per session (2 hours) to $70. We
recently did a little analysis of payment practices of group members. =
It
turns out that whether the group member is on the low end or high end of =
the
scale, they keep their payments up to date at the same rate. =20
We thought some of the group facilitators were letting participants fall =
too
far behind. The facilitators' argument was that the poorer guys =
couldn't
pay because of the current economic problems in Silicon Valley! Well, =
rich
or poor, 40% of the batters were keeping their payments up to date. =
And,
rich or poor, 60% were letting their payments slide as far in arrears as =
the
rules and the facilitators allowed. =20
I doubt that these rates are any different for batterers than for the
general population with their credit card debt--it is a matter of the
individual's priorities. However, income is a factor and I think it =
should
be taken into account. California requires 52 weeks of intervention. At =
the
low end it comes to $80 plus per month for a year. This is a stiff =
penalty,
even here. As a result of racism and oppression, lower income people =
and
people of color are more likely to be arrested, charged and prosecuted. =
In
a very low income rural or coastal area where the middle class is very =
small
or has disappeared, a sliding scale seems like an important =
accessibility
issue for participants. At the same time, in mainstream western =
culture,
money talks. For some groups of batterers, having to pay money for group
services is a powerful way to take responsibility. That, of course, is =
not
necessarily the case for many other communities and a wide range of
individuals from all groups.
Vietta Helmle
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 21:02:27 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:02:27 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re:posting from Karen Andrews (from Natalie Sokoloff)
Message-ID: <000401c32ba5$c763cab0$3549510c@jimmy88>
I would like to reinforce what Karen Andrews said about ultimately not
being able to work from within the system, especially the criminal =
justice
system (though I think we still need it now in some ways and for those =
women
who want to make use of it as they see necessary) as well as to support =
the
statement that when you ask marginalized communities what prevention =
looks
like, it often quite different from mainstream approaches. I have tried
to honor those different perspectives and approaches in my forthcoming =
book
on Domestic Violence: At the Intersections of Race, Class and Gender
(Routledge, 2004). The book contains a section on suggested =
alternatives;
but much more is needed to be done in this area. We need to make =
concerted
efforts to hear the voices of battered women and their children and work =
to
make grass roots alternatives much more funded and accessible to the =
large
groups of women who are in need of them.
Natalie Sokoloff
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 5 21:07:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:07:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: restorative justice (from Jeremy Simons)
Message-ID: <000501c32ba6$6bf96da0$3549510c@jimmy88>
Ahh.... so what about the CJS? A good question, especially for me as a
Restorative Justice (RJ) coordinator in Denver. We are working in
partnership with a neighborhood crime and safety committee, a non profit
Victim Offender Mediation Program, and City sponsored community court =
(as
well as other providers) that intends to take justice back to the level =
of
community. This means that offenders in a neighborhood will be =
addressed in
that neighborhood and provided alternatives to traditional prosecution =
and
community support and monitoring. Victims will also receive community
support and wrap around services. We are informed by the principals of=20
restorative justice in how this partnership goes forward. This means we =
start out by focusing on 2 basic principals of RJ:
1 - Offenders take responsibility for their actions and the harm caused =
to
victims
2 - Offenders are accountable directly to their victims and will =
ACTIVELY
work to "make things right" (repair the harm), as DEFINED BY THE VICTIM =
OR a
community representative when victims are unavailable.
It is apparent that RJ processes may not be appropriate for all =
situations,
but the principals are still good guide posts.
RJ has in the past been in conflict with the CJS system that does =
nothing to
repair harm, often marginalizes victims, provides no real =
accountability,
and does nothing to reform or modify the behavior of offenders. =
However,
for us, RJ and CJS must partner, because the "system" (which =
incidentally is
filled with many people who DO care), does provide certain due process
safeguards and rights. This prevents authentic the community justice =
that
we are working for from becoming vigilante justice.=20
RJ also addresses the issues of diversity because it is not really =
anything
new, but goes BACK to how communities often used to handle misbehavior.
This has allowed RJ to become a big tent that includes many indigenous =
forms
of justice such as peace circles and more. I believe RJ can greatly =
benefit
and inform the work of DV, in fact the local juvenile judge informed us
recently that he would be referring "dv" cases to us for victim offender
conferencing. This gets back to a basic question of definitions and
language because I think there may be a difference between violence that
happens in a domestic arena and chronic domestic violence that is an
ingrained pattern. I would be interested in hearing if people see a
distinction or not in this and whether BIPs or other interventions =
should
therefore be structured differently.=20
Peace,
Jeremy Simons
jeremysimons@centura.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 00:32:39 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:32:39 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Thanks to Julia & Fernando (from Ivan Wilson)
Message-ID: <000001c32bc3$2372a980$a157510c@jimmy88>
Thanks. Very much of what Julia & Fernando write matches the experience
of my colleagues and me in the whole violence-alteration field. I choose
to give merely three examples where I have personal knowledge.
* A friend used to lead classes (on economics) in a major prison.
Ten years later he faced major surgery and met the anaesthetist
beforehand. That man identified himself as having been a member of my
friend's classes. My friend exemplified respect, not only economics. It
had taken that time for a degree in medicine and specialty in
anaesthesia to be completed, and the man's life had changed irrevocably.
* A member of one of our groups, who used to be a member of a gang
specialising in wholesale distribution of illicit drugs (with
predictable effects on the family), wrote to me this week. He says "I'm
sure that a lot of inmates changed how they viewed the outside world as
a result of your guests (to the program). I know that's true for me".
* A member of a family violence group led by friends says "You
saved my life". That is true of him, of his wife, their three children
and their partners - and of countless others through how they relate to
them.
Each of these examples involves attitudes that Julia and Fernando
describe. In my view there are changes coming, slowly, to the criminal
justice system and society that have power to change great slabs of
harming of individuals, families and groups in our societies.
Ivan.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 15:40:18 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:40:18 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Where's the focus? (from Wally Roth)
Message-ID: <000f01c32c41$ef5ea700$7777510c@jimmy88>
In our program we assume that the men do their violence to their =
partners,
from emotional to physical, whenever they fear that their partners are
getting the upper hand. Male-role training requires that men stay on =
top, so
they get and give other men support to do whatever it takes to keep =
their
dominant position, relative to women. Many of the men do their physical
violence after their female partner attacks them physically. "If you =
want to
fight like a man, I'll fight you like one", is the thinking. =
Unfortunately,
women are being encouraged to fight back. Or is it that they see little
choice but to take matters into their own hands and try to even things =
out?
Whatever the rationale for this apparent increase in women's violence to
their male partners, we are hearing more and more men saying that their
partners are attacking them. While most men are not scared for their =
lives
(with some exceptions), they are afraid to "lay down their arms" for =
fear of
being destroyed themselves. When the only model of living we know is one =
of
a hierarchal system that punishes those of lesser importance, it is a =
tall
order to ask men to change their life's lessons.
Without expounding further, we asked our Peer Advisory Committee members
(women advocates and women who've experienced abuse) about this question =
of
women's violence. They were very aware of this problem and admitted to =
being
in a dilemma as this took them away from the "victim" position many =
women
are placed in. In collaboration with these women, we came up with a =
brochure
for men to address this delicate issue. It continues to hold men =
accountable
for their behaviors. http://www.hotpeachpages.org/resources/4men.htm
Many women have phoned us to ask if we had programs for them because =
they
wanted to stop their violence. Most have expressed disappointment when =
we
told them that we don't know of any.
My point is that we are living in a culture that thrives on violence as =
a
means of getting and keeping our dominant position. We do this as =
countries,
as races, and so on. We must not just ask men to stop their violence, =
but we
must address our society's "need" to use violence in the name of good.
Many contributors have offered some ways of doing just this. Perhaps we
aren't doing enough, though. We need to ask our politicians, our church
leaders, and our court judges, and other community leaders, to consider
their roles in perpetuating a violence-based society, as well, if we are
truly respectful of the men who have been caught "battering".
Thanks for listening,
Wally Roth
Alternatives Program
Saskatoon, SK Canada
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 15:45:02 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:45:02 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Comments to Share (from Fernando Mederos)
Message-ID: <001001c32c42$98daddd0$7777510c@jimmy88>
Dear Colleagues;
I remain amazed at the breadth of experience that people have and the
acuteness of the comments. There is approximately a day left for =
comments,
so I encourage those who have been reading and thinking in the sidelines =
to
jump in.
As I see it, the discussion is revolving around four key issues=85
Compassionate/holistic encounters with men who batter in batterer
intervention programs. This is an emergent and sometimes apologetic =
voice
that I see embodied in people like Chris Huffine, Sam Bachman and Bruce
Wood. This involves a series of steps, from changing the names of the
programs (Men and Anger instead of batterer intervention program) to
engaging with the men in a more three-dimensional and connective manner.
Bruce Wood calls it going from a =93stern parent=94 approach (which at =
its worst
is unbending, paternalistic and labeling) to an =93open hand=94 =
approach.
Julia, I think, articulates the core of the =93open hand=94 approach =
when she
talks about beginning to see her own potential for violence, through =
working
with men who batter. I would add that an open hands approach should be
holistic=97that it should recognize and pay some attention to life =
challenges
that many men who batter have, because life challenges can act as =
formidable
obstacles in the change process. Life challenges are issues such as
oppression, exposure to many forms of childhood abuse and deprivation,
exposure violence in the family of origin, in public life and in the
political sphere, absent or abusive fathers, poverty, under- and
unemployment, etc. When I first ran a group for Latinos, 11 out of 15 =
men
complained of being stopped, pulled out of their cars, searched and
manhandled by two police officers in my neighborhood. I had been taught =
to
see this as =93batter-babbling=94 (abusers trying to deflect attention =
away from
themselves). However, we took another approach. We asked ourselves in =
the
group:=20
=93If you are enraged by acts of oppression like these, how do you =
respond
constructively and assertively to these circumstances? How do you keep
yourself from adopting an angry and challenging tone at home? How do =
you
keep yourself from turning your anger onto your partner and children? =
How
do you remind yourself not to become the bad cop at home? You may see
yourself as a man who is oppressed and wants to struggle against =
oppression.
How do you support your partner? Is she oppressed too?=94 =20
Opening ourselves to such dialogues is crucial. An open hand approach =
folds
within itself a feminist perspective, clarity about the reality of male
supremacy and about the men=92s responsibility for their behavior. It =
also
involves recognizing that the abusers are complex people. In my view, =
the
better we do this, the more effective we will be with men, but it is a
complex tightrope. =20
Money. There are a few examples of programs that receive adequate =
support
from government agencies and a few others that are funded by virtue of =
being
a part of a larger institution that is solvent. However, it is more =
common
for programs to have no public funding and to struggle economically, =
trying
to collect fees from many men who are indigent or who say they are =
indigent.
This is a result of the historical decision not to provide funding for =
men=92s
programs=97primarily out of fear that funding for such programs would =
lessen
resources for women=92s services. The risk is that this may shortchange
critical program functions. A BIP may have a hard time paying someone =
to
provide compliance information to probation departments. It may have
adopted an excellent curriculum, but counselors/group facilitators may =
have
insufficient training and little or no ongoing supervision. It also =
makes
it very difficult to maintain close relationships with the battered =
women=92s
movement, which used to be a core part of our work. In Massachusetts, =
many
programs have adopted sliding scale fees of $25=E0$65 or so per session, =
with
a $175 registration fee which includes an orientation and an extensive
confidential partner contact. A key issue is that men who are indigent =
can
receive free services if they agree to do 5=E07 hours of community =
service per
week in return. Probation departments set up and monitor community =
service.
Under those conditions 80%+ of court-mandated men pay. However, this =
still
leaves programs struggling. Should we revisit the decision to provide
little or no funding to BIPs? Does the battered women=92s movement have
sufficient political influence to resist any resulting tendency to take =
away
funding from battered women=92s programs? =20
Dump the criminal justice system? Neither Julia nor I advocate this
position. The criminal justice role in the societal encounter with =
men=92s
violence against women is essential. Undoing this institutional =
framework
would remove crucial and life-saving protections for many battered women =
and
their children. It is a safety net and it is na=EFve to think =
otherwise.
Some men need to be restrained and removed from society (with the hope =
that
they get some educational programming while in jail). As a group
facilitator and administrator for a BIP, I have been responsible for
providing the information that led to many men=92s incarceration. For =
many
others, the real possibility of suffering consequences for partner =
assault
gets across the message that our society has taken a stand. =
Establishing an
effective coordinated criminal justice response or maintaining existing
programs is very important. However, the point that Julia and I try to =
make
is that the institutional responses and programs we have developed are =
used
by very few battered women and reach very few men who batter. In our
article, we advocate the extension of programming for men into community
settings and the adoption of culturally competent and holistic =
approaches in
order to draw more men voluntarily into batterer intervention programs. =
Culturally competent programming. Some people are elated by this
possibility, a few are skeptical and others don=92t touch the topic. =
Cultural
competence is not for people of color, it is for everybody. There is
enormous regional, class and ethnic diversity among European Americans,
among many others. I hope it is not presumptuous to offer an exercise =
to
help people reflect on these issues: =20
Gather in small groups and answer the following questions by turn:
1. Thinking of one=92s family of origin and neighborhood, were there
traditions, values, relationships and life circumstances that made women
more vulnerable to oppressive relationships with men and made it hard =
for
women to get support and resist abuse and oppression? Did this also =
involve
notions about ideals for womanhood? =20
2. Were there traditions, values and life circumstances that enabled men =
to
be oppressive and abusive toward women? Did this also involve notions =
about
manhood?
3. Were there traditions, values, relationships and life circumstances =
that
empowered women and protected them from or helped them resist oppressive =
and
abusive relationships with men? Were there ideals about womanhood that =
were
helpful? =20
4. Were there traditions, values, relationships and life circumstances =
that
encouraged men to be respectful and to have egalitarian relationships =
with
women? Were there traditions, values, relationships and life =
circumstances
that restrained them from being abusive to women? Were there manhood =
ideals
that were helpful?
5. How do we these issues in our peer groups (those we think are like
ourselves) now? =20
It helps to do such exercises in small groups with co-workers and with
people from all the groups that one works with. For most people, this =
helps
us appreciate that culture and life circumstances can both open the door =
to
oppression and serve as a source of resistance and of models of positive
relationships that may be very particular depending on class, race,
ethnicity, sexual orientation and so on. That goes for own cultures as =
well
as others=92. For me, this type of exercise was the first step in =
getting a
more balanced view of my culture and understanding how to use culture as =
a
source of inspiration for change.
The missing piece. It is my impression that it is hard to for people to
engage with the need for programming and services that step outside of
batterer intervention programs. It is even harder to engage with the =
idea
that the institutions we have created reach very few men who batter and =
that
many women avoid these institutions. According to the Findings of the
National Violence Against Women Survey (Tjaden & Thoennes, July 2000)
regarding intimate partner violence, women reported to the police only
one-quarter of all partner assaults, one-fifth of all rapes and one-half =
of
all stalkings: =93These findings suggest that most victims of violence =
of
intimate partner violence de not consider the justice system an =
appropriate
vehicle for solving conflicts with spouses.=94 (pp. v) =20
Friends in the Boston police department tell me that approximately 90% =
of
women who call the police refuse to prosecute. Likewise in Boston, =
women
drop a large proportion of temporary restraining orders. Even though =
the
criminal justice response in Boston is considered by many to be well =
above
average, a huge proportion of women does not use the system or opts out =
of
it. Advocates tell me that it is not primarily fear of abusers (though =
that
is certainly a big factor), but the fact that many women are not =
prepared
to prosecute, leave their partners, have them arrested or get permanent
protective orders that require separation. Many also fear deportation =
of
the abuser. This means that very few men ever reach batterer =
intervention
programs if arrest is the primary means for them to get there. How much
impact are we really having on men who batter in general? On men who =
could
escalate and become batterers? On men in communities who could restrain =
and
influence their peers away from abusive and oppressive relationships? =
Can
we dialogue about this?
Men and women who work in this field will have to work together very
intensely in order to create new approaches. As Julia points out, men =
and
women work separately and this is a fertile ground for distrust and even
hostility. We don=92t get together often enough and experience the =
reality of
sharing common or very similar goals. ALIANZA, the National Latino =
Alliance
to Eradicate Domestic Violence, began with a series of meetings between =
men
and women. Latinas who had worked in the battered women=92s movement =
for a
long time were committed to working with Latinos who had a similar
background. They made it happen. It took some very difficult and =
intense
conversations, but we all wanted to bring domestic violence into
communities, we wanted to heal families, and we wanted to move forward =
in a
way that recognized our diversity and our oppressions, even our own =
internal
oppressions. We will never finish this work, but we have created deep
bonds. Julia and I were part of that process and are bearers of that =
bond.
It transforms our work and our analysis and it sustains us.
Again, thank you for this nourishing dialogue. Please send your =
thoughts in
if you haven=92t.
Tjaden, P. & Thoennes, N. (July, 2000). Extent, Nature And =
Consequences Of
Intimate Partner Violence: Findings From The National Violence Against
Women Survey. U.S. Department of Justice, Office Of Justice Programs, =
810
seventh street N.W., Washington, DC 20531. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov=20
=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 15:55:45 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:55:45 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: restorative justice (from Jeremy NeVilles-Sorell)
Message-ID: <001101c32c44$18379540$7777510c@jimmy88>
The problem I see with restorative justice and DV is that one of our =
major
obstacles is community attitudes towards violence against women. For =
many
years people have generally accepted that violence against women is a =
social
problem and we've been work to change belief and value systems among men
going through BIPs by doing critical thinking on how these beliefs get
formed. Now when we recognize how difficult it is to get people =
involved in
non-violence work, i.e. the "Big Tent" discussion, and we know that most =
of
the general public has little understanding of the dynamics of DV and =
carry
the same sexist and victim blaming attitudes that perpetuate this social
problem.
Many people feel that there is potential for a RJ response and =
personally I
like the concept but the major problem is that the community is part of =
the
problem so how can they be expected to hold a perpetrator accountable? =
In
working with Tribal communities and Alaska villages I've heard many =
reasons
a to go with restorative justice models and stories of communities
implementing RJ initiatives. In most of the situations the women get =
blamed
by those participating in the circles because the community and family
members are involved and they are not skilled in handling DV situations. =
If
community members could really hold offenders accountable we really =
wouldn't
be having these conversations because the social standard would be much
higher and we wouldn't tolerate all this violence against any member of =
the
community.
I believe there is still a lot of work to be done and the need to pursue
various ways to address these issues. I don't think people should try =
to
make the criminal justice system something that it is not and it is =
pretty
clear that rehabilitation is something it does not do - it pretty much =
just
hands our punishment - that's it. With the early work here in Duluth =
the
CJS wasn't even really doing that when it came to DV and many people
recognized that all that would happen is men would sit in jail and not
change a bit. That is why the men's groups here got started - to help
change attitudes and beliefs. Warehousing people in cages doesn't do
anything to change attitude other than not wanting to get caught next =
time
and returning to jail - but some people do need to get that jail time.
It was a bit disheartening to hear some of the earlier comments on how =
the
"Duluth Model" was being applied in other places because that doesn't =
even
sound anything near to the intend of the way it gets carried out here.
Another co-worker on this group had asked that Ellen Pence and/or =
Michael
Paymar reply to some of those comments because the CCR intervention is =
to
ensure that the systems are doing their role in providing safety for =
women
and that the courts are the ones to hand out the punitive consequences =
not
the BIP. Duluth is a beautiful place but it is not Utopia - we still =
work
hard to address violence against women here in this community just like =
many
other people do across the country and it is ongoing work.
I think that our collective efforts are about making social change and =
in
order to do that we must learn and evolve just like the work addressing =
DV
and SA. I also believe that each community needs to develop a response =
that
is effective for them - what ever model they choose to employ because =
the
common denominator is that we need to change social attitudes in order =
to
see an end to the violence. If we can't do that then no approach - RJ,
CCRI, whatever - will be effective in providing safety or =
accountability.
There is no doubt there is a lot to work to do and other venues to =
pursue
beyond CJS. We all must continue to do what we can but not at the =
sacrifice
of safety.
Miigwech,
Jeremy NeVilles-Sorell
Mending the Sacred Hoop
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 16:02:21 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:02:21 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] advocates and BIPPs (from Tony Switzer)
Message-ID: <001201c32c45$05937020$7777510c@jimmy88>
Julia asked, "Given the very real and valid concerns that have been
expressed in this discussion about the difficulties and challenges of
building bridges between advocates and BIP providers, what avenues are =
open
for changing the current state of affairs?"
Here at the Texas Council on Family Violence in Austin (we are the state =
dv
coalition) we recognized this gap although we didn't articulate it in
exactly this way. Part of my job here involves working with and =
monitoring
29 BIPPs across the state (we are funded by the CJS). One of the =
unusual
things here is that 26 of the 29 BIPPs are operated by shelters (one of =
the
other three is run by a legal advocacy program for victims of dv). =20
Specifically, we observed that some of those BIPPs even though =
administered
by the shelter organization reflected less than supportive attitudes and
policies concerning their own BIPP. Some of these attitudes and =
policies
were from the place of "batterers can not change". In other places and =
from
other persons we saw female victim advocates seeming to take the =
position
that male staff were not to be trusted, were hopelessly sexist, etc. (I =
am
considerably oversimplifying here, sorry, it is late). =20
Of course, some of these people and organizations had been through bad
experiences with men and male dominated institutions. These attitudes =
and
policies were not irrational and out of the blue.
But, we noticed (we being my male co-worker and the strong, wonderful =
women
we work with here) that a common element in a lot of this was men being =
told
to be accountable for their sexism and to just stop it. OK, fair =
enough, we
men need to do that. However, what we noticed for our state was that =
there
really were few or no organized venues for men to tackle their sexism.
We created an event to try to address that gap. In April of 2000 we =
held
the first Forum on Men's Work to End Violence Against Women. This was
consciously planned as a mixed gender training event. We brought in =
several
presenter/facilitators to guide us during the three day event. Our =
mixed
gender team internally that planned the event over a five month period =
was a
time of struggle where I, and others, had to confront our sexism and the
legacy of living in a male dominated society. We planned the logistics =
and
agenda, but wound up working on ourselves and confronting issues of =
gender,
race, class, and sexual orientation.
The event was an uneven success. We drew equal numbers of men and =
women.
We spent time in separate gender caucuses and time together speaking as
honestly as we could to each other. It was a wrenching emotional =
experience
for many of us. =20
We did a second and third men's forum and are planning another for 2004.
All three so far have drawn equal gender numbers. We have succeeded in
creating a venue for men and women to speak honestly about gender
oppression. The events were good, but far from perfect; we think we did
better each time
Though most of the attendees have been from the service provider =
community
(shelters and BIPPs) we have stressed and relentlessly pushed forward =
the
notion that service provision though necessary is not a strategy to end
violence against women. We have advanced the idea that organized
communities can stop violence. And by "organized communities" we have =
tried
to be clear that CCRIs are only one aspect or example of a community.
The effect of these three men's forum events as well as other factors =
has
been noticeable in programs across the state and especially within this
organization. More shelters that run BIPPs are coming to appreciate and
integrate their BIPPs into their overall mission within their =
geographical
communities. We see and hear of instances of male and female staff =
being
able to work together on a more honest basis, that is, men being more
accountable and women ....I hesitate to speak for women around the =
state,
but I do think there has been a shift for the better in some way. =
Please,
Texas women, write in, I have been way wrong before and could be again.
Tony Switzer=20
Coordinator
Men's Nonviolence Project
Texas Council on Family Violence=20
tswitz@tcfv.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 16:07:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:07:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Too early to abandon the CJS ship (from Tony Switzer)
Message-ID: <001301c32c45$ad1d73e0$7777510c@jimmy88>
Almost all of the posts to this seminar are about moving away from =
exclusive
reliance on the criminal legal system. However, there is nothing wrong =
with
trying to leverage the considerable resources now poured into that work.
Texas Council on Family Violence (state coalition) contracts with Texas
Department of Criminal Justice to monitor batterer programs, provide
technical assistance to them, do training, and more.=20
Below is an example of how some of that money is usefully spent. It is =
also
an example of approaching men in a non-blaming manner.
We did some focus group research with Texas men several years ago. We =
were
looking for what messages, messengers, and media were likely to reach =
Texas
men about dv. After several versions of brochures and radio PSAs field
tested lukewarm we synthesized what we heard in the focus groups and
launched the Men Make Choices/Hombres de Verdad Escogen campaign.=20
We found that with a rather neutral attention grabber-Men Make Choices =
in
bold (what traditionally raised male would disagree with that =
statement?)-we
could get guys to pick up the small tri-fold. Inside was a checklist of
behaviors that constitute abuse (calling bad names, threats, hit, slap,
shouting and cursing, etc.) plus the sub-headline "Not All Men Are =
Abusive"
and other text.
The piece was aimed at providing information to men and appealing to =
them to
voluntarily seek help if needed at a local BIPP. The radio PSAs =
utilized
the same focus group derived messages with a call to action (seek help =
at
this number).=20
In a very limited test of the materials we found that used in a focused
campaign in a medium sized city in a rural area they were effective in
doubling the number of men calling voluntarily to the BIPP. We also =
found
that the materials did not have the same effect in a large urban =
setting.
There are many factors that we think may have effected the latter =
outcome,
but we took heart from the rural outcome. It appears that an energetic
campaign with a non-blaming approach can generate a positive effect.
If you want to see the Men Make Choices materials (in English and=20
Spanish) look on our web site at =20
http://www.tcfv.org/programs_for_batterers_MMC.html=20
Tony Switzer
Coordinator
Men's Nonviolence Project
Texas Council on Family Violence
tswitz@tcfv.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 17:06:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:06:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re:postings from Karen Andrews and Natalie Sokoloff (from Lonna Davis)
Message-ID: <000001c32c4d$eb27e4b0$0d79510c@jimmy88>
Unfortunately, I am coming into this dialogue a bit late- it looks like =
it
has been quite rich! I am writing specifically in response to Karen and
Natalie- I think it is fundamental for us to continue to hear the voices =
of
women and their families to help us re-define safety and security. I =
also
want to share a project that I've been working on the last few years =
called
the Activist Dialogues. The Dialogues are a partnership project between =
us
(the FVPF) and the Institute on Domestic Violence in the African =
American
Community, The National Latino Alliance For the Elimination of Domestic
Violence, The Women of Color Network, The Asian and Pacific Islander
Institute on Domestic Violence, Incite! and the National Network To End
Violence Against Immigrant Women- with P. Caitlin Fullwood as the lead
consultant- Each of the partners created dialogues within their own
constituencies to hear the voices of women of color (both inside and
outside of the systems) Although the project was focused on helping =
women
caught in the child welfare system, there was considerable dialogue =
about
all of our systems, crim jus, shelters, Bip's etc..I was extremely =
honored
to be part of this project and will have the report published by the end =
of
the summer. In a nutshell, there were remarkable connections made by =
women
who worked in systems and women who were involved with the them- it =
seems to
me, that keeping these connections going and viewing the potential for
allies on the inside should not be thrown out quite yet -especially in
supporting community based prevention responses.=20
Lonna Davis, Family Violence Prevention Fund-=20
ps. Natalie- looking forward to your book.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 19:59:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:59:00 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Comments to Share (from Dave Mathews)
Message-ID: <000201c32c66$1344fb00$3877510c@jimmy88>
What a great summary of this discussion from Dr. Mederos.
I would simply like to add my 2 cents worth in regards to a couple
postings:
Restorative Justice (or as I now refer to it as Restorative Practices):
I think this arena needs to be further explored and better thought
through on how to apply the principles and philosophy to our work in
domestic violence. There is a wealth of learning from this thinking we
could do and I think it lends itself to assisting us in being more
creative in our approaches with men who batter. I'd be glad to expound
on this particularly in the next discussion on men who batter and are
parents.
I am more trying to view my work from the perspective of being one
essential component within the whole necessary machine. A story I heard
years ago better describes my position:
A person was walking alongside a river on a beautiful day and heard
crying from the river. Looking towards the shouts this person sees
another person drowning. The person on the bank jumps in and saves the
other person and while resuscitating this person looks out in the river
and sees three more people crying for help. This person jumps in and
drags the three people out and starts resuscitating them and in the
meantime hearten more people crying out for help in the river. I have
felt very much like this person running in to save these people (I would
guess that many of us have these feelings of being overwhelmed by this
sort of situation). The positive side though is the person then starts
thinking, "where are all these people coming from?" and decides to walk
up stream to find many other people jumping in and saving others too. As
this person proceeds to the source of the river, this person sees some
people being pushed in and some jumping in on their own and some being
pulled in. And there are many people trying to prevent these people from
entering the water using many different methods.
My lesson from this story is that I believe it important to see my work
a one part of the overall work being done on the river. There is a
continuum of care, even for men who batter. The criminal justice system,
courts, preventionists, interventionists and even those who are at the
mouth of the river handling the most difficult results of people getting
past the rest of us must do our parts. We also must see the value of
everyone else's efforts as we work together.
This story really lead me to be challenges to not only continue my
direct service work with batterers but to understand and contribute to
the primary prevention efforts that I believe are necessary to add (not
substitute) to the work on the river.
This is why at DAP we are continuing to broaden our approach working
with all the family members in more than the one size fits all way.
I salute those who contributed their case studies, the discussion
participants and the authors of the initial paper for this discussion. I
am honored and appreciative of your work on the river.20
Respectfully to all,
Dave Mathews
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 20:01:43 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_More_reflections_and_questions_for_discussion_from_Jul?=
=?iso-8859-1?Q?ia_Perilla_=28from_Juan_Carlos_Are=E1n=29?=
Message-ID: <000701c32c66$79d2f2a0$3877510c@jimmy88>
It has been very stimulating to follow this discussion. Thank you to
Fernando and Julia for their wonderful and insightful article. In my =
short
twelve years in the batterers=92 intervention field, it has been amazing =
to
witness significant shifts in practitioners=92 philosophy. In my =
experience,
a few years ago it was next to impossible to proclaim that men should be
supported (as well as held accountable) in renouncing their violence =
without
being labeled a colluder or accused of putting the victim=92s safety in
jeopardy. It seems that nowadays more and more professionals are =
realizing
how important it is to create a balance between help and confrontation,
especially when working with men of color. The simple fact that this
dialogue is happening constitutes undeniable progress.
The idea of balancing support and accountability when dealing with men =
is
not new. In fact, it is at the center of the Family=92s Violence =
Prevention
Fund=92s Men=92s Program, whose motto is =93Invite, not indict.=94 FVPF =
has=20
worked in parallel and complimentary tracks to reach men and boys in =
various
settings, including schools and sport teams (Coaching Boys into Men),
specific communities (It=92s Your Business) and within batterers =
intervention
programs (Fathering After Violence Project). The framework of their =
work
has been based on the ideas that men will respond better when engaged in =
a
respectful and culturally appropriate way. At a local level, in addition =
to
the case studies described in the paper, it is worth mentioning the =
Men=92s
Resource Center of Western Massachusetts, which since 1982 has been
diligently and quietly gaining attention for a balanced approach to =
working
with abusive men. (Disclaimer: I worked there for more than ten years).
Its batterers intervention program, Men Overcoming Violence, started in =
1989
working exclusively with=20
non-mandated men. Since 1992 they have accepted court-mandated clients, =
but
also=20
managed to maintain a large proportion of =93voluntary=94 men in their =
ten
weekly
groups. Check their website at www.mensresourcecenter.org
Other Men=92s Resource Centers have adapted the Massachusetts model to =
their
own realities. Particularly interesting is the case of the MRC of =
Northern
New Mexico in Taos, where cultural competence and support for men=92s =
basic
needs have received particular attention, not unlike what Fernando and =
Julia
propose in their article. This center has also maintained a high
proportion of racially diverse, non-mandated program participants. =
Their
site is www.mensresource.org
These examples, of course, shatter the paradigm that many have in the US
that men will not =93voluntarily=94 participate in batterers=92 =
intervention.
Another wonderful contradiction to this idea is CORIAC, a program in
Mexico City for men who are abusive. Since in Mexico there is not =
mandate
for abusers to attend BIPs, this program (and others in that country) =
has
had to come up with ways to engage men voluntarily. They have done it =
with
great success by any measure. More than a thousand men have signed up =
to
attend their program in the last seven years. If you speak Spanish, you =
can
check their website at www.coriac.org.mx
In closing, I=92d like to add that what these programs have in common is =
not
only a supportive, respectful and positive attitude towards their =
clients=92
process of change. They also share a belief that there is not a radical
difference between men who batter and men who don=92t.=20
Blessings to all and continue your hard work.
Juan Carlos Are=E1n
Consultant to the Family Violence Prevention Fund
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 20:52:40 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:52:40 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Expansion Beyond the CCR (from Scott Miller)
Message-ID: <001101c32c6d$941d6e40$3877510c@jimmy88>
Expansion beyond the CCR
The Duluth Model has traditionally been about improving the criminal =
justice
response to DV. The Duluth Model advocates change in the system and =
then
monitors the change for effectiveness on behalf of battered women and =
their
children. However, the teams within MPDI have recognized the problem of
only dealing with men who enter the CJS and are attempting (on limited
budgets and resources) to expand this. One way we have successfully =
done
this is to involve the Evangelical faith community. It is a culture =
that
wasn't safe to talk about in our regular men's nonviolence classes so we
created a separate class for this group of men. At least half of the
members are referred by churches and include self-referrals of lay =
members
and church leaders. It is another example of taking the curriculum we =
use
and adapting it to a culture not specifically addressed in the text.
However, the tactics and struggles are all the same but the motive, use=20
And practice of the tactics can be different. When we begin to expand =
the=20
faith network to other churches, we expect to see intervention grow not =
only
in our predominately white community, but also in the African American
community through an African American Men's Nonviolence Class.
County Social Services and social service agencies have taken an =
interest in
both our Father's Nonviolence Class and Young Men's Nonviolence Class.
Scott Miller
Team Leader
Domestic Abuse Intervention Project
smiller@duluth-model.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 22:31:39 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:31:39 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Safety and accountability (from Martin Dufresne)
Message-ID: <001f01c32c7b$665b87e0$3877510c@jimmy88>
I wish to thank Fernando and Julia for their paper and for having set =
key
criteria: safety for women and accountability. As we know, these are
important benchmarks to keep in mind when men express frustration at =
women
or at systems that insist on standards and the rights of victims.
Despite having been stimulated by the discussion, I can't help wishing =
that
these criteria had been more central to it. It often struck me that if =
this
had been an exchange among BIP clients, most counsellors would have =
taken
the responsibility to challenge this process as at best ineffective and =
at
worst risky for the women involved.
I especially wish that more had been said about victims' safety, a =
concern
that I know is central to our work. Our experience here in Quebec is =
that
partners are killed all the time by men whom have been diverted to =
programs.
I couldn't help keep these women in mind these last few weeks, as
accountability to them was marginalized.
It's a strange contradiction that women are often blamed for "going =
back" to
an abuser, for being too trusting, but that other women, feminists, are
equally blamed for not being trusting enough, even when the credibility =
and
livelihood of their services are under fire. Shouldn't we take on the
responsibility of resolving that contradiction?
I sincerly hope that we will do this in future exchanges and that every
stakeholder will feel safe to take part. I know this because I, frankly,
didn't.
In solidarity,
Martin Dufresne
Montreal Men Against Sexism
martin@laurentides.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 22:44:17 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:44:17 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Culture and Accountability in the Duluth Model (from Scott Miller)
Message-ID: <002001c32c7d$29fe6d60$3877510c@jimmy88>
The Duluth Model has been mentioned a number of times and in the =
discussion,
it has been described as rigid, ignoring cultural issues, and too =
closely
tied to the CJS.=A0 I'm not interested in defending the model as much as =
using
what I see as the misperception to illustrate the struggle many of us =
have.
Culture
The Power and Control Wheel has been translated into at least 27 =
different
cultures and languages, all by the cultures themselves.=A0 The P&C Wheel
represents the experiences of hundreds of women who were battered by =
their
partners and obviously has made sense to many women around the world who =
are
victims of DV.=A0 The curriculum (Creating a Process of Change for Men =
Who
Batter) that surrounds the P&C Wheel and Equality Wheel is definitely
European in its structure.=A0 However, because the themes themselves are
representative of many different cultures, the curriculum can be =
modified
(and we stress that) to each culture's needs.=A0 Mending the Sacred Hoop =
(a
fellow team at MPDI) has taken the Duluth Model and modified it for =
First
Nation Men so that many of the issues Sandy Davidson highlighted can be
addressed.
Here lies one of the struggles.=A0 Many of the people we train on the =
use of
the curriculum come to us with the idea that the role of a facilitator =
is to
disseminate information to those who need it.=A0 Instead, the curriculum
simply provides a way to talk about what they have come to understand =
about
their own struggle with power and control.=A0 Making the shift for many
professionals from a place of hierarchy to one of seeing the place we =
all
occupy on the continuum of power and control is hard because our =
education
training tells us that the teacher has all the answers and the students =
job
is to understand the world from the teachers perch.=A0 When in reality, =
we
need to stand with the men in a common struggle to embrace the =
non-violence
of the Equality Wheel.=A0 Despite our best efforts, people may use our
curriculum from a place of P&C like traditional educators.=A0 They may
perceive the "way" to understanding lies in the manual and not in their =
own
work.
Accountability
Along these same lines, the issue brought up concerning the struggle =
between
accountability and compassion plays out in much the same way.=A0 People =
who
come for training here have the option of observing a men's nonviolence
class.=A0 Consistently, the initial responses are things like "why =
didn't you
make all the guys talk" and "why did you let that guy get away with not
admitting any violence."=A0 People want to impose accountability on men
because that is consistent with how most of us have lived (there is that =
P&C
again).=A0 Imposing accountability is what the CJS is good at and it =
does
produce some motivation to change.=A0 However, internal change is going =
to
come about when it is safe.=A0 To be safe, an environment has to be =
created
where men can find their own accountability.=A0 Otherwise, they mimic =
the
teacher to get through (how many times have we all done this) and at =
best,
they have some new information but without the accompanying change we =
all
want.=A0 Confrontation comes to the men in the Control Log that we =
use.=A0 To
take a man or group of men through a control log challenges the
understanding they have of their belief system and forces them to =
confront
the impact of their choices on themselves and the people they love.=A0 =
Again,
people outside the group want the facilitator to confront but that can
reinforce the P&C world the men already understand: I'm the teacher and =
I
can make you say what you're supposed to.=A0 Challenge also comes in =
having to
deal with a female and male facilitator working and role modeling the
Equality Wheel.=A0 Many of these men will find themselves challenged =
just by
entering into respectful dialogue with a woman.
Our curriculum is based on Brazilian educator Paulo Freire's ideas about
education.=A0 He believed that to learn and change, there must be =
compassion
and belief in those involved in the work.=A0 Freire also challenges us =
to
believe that we all have parts of the answer to our liberation.=A0 It is =
a
challenge in this work because many think that men who batter aren't =
capable
of entering into dialogue.=A0 Posing questions that help us all get =
underneath
what we know, what we believe, how we view the world, ourselves and each
other.=A0 Dialogue helps get men who batter and facilitators to shift =
from
automatic to reflective responses that recognize the interrelationships
between our personal and cultural beliefs and myths about how we live =
and
act in the world.=A0 It is our understanding that in order to facilitate
nonviolent change, it must start with the facilitator who can bring that
experience to the men in group.
I hope this has added to the discussion,
Scott Miller
Team Leader
Domestic Abuse Intervention Project
smiller@duluth-model.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 23:41:56 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:41:56 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] An Evolving Field (from Dee Kennedy)
Message-ID: <002901c32c85$38250a90$3877510c@jimmy88>
A lot of the rich discussion here has supported my observations of =
batterer
intervention programs and a coordinated community response in =
Dorchester,
Massachusetts over the past 9 years. The batterer intervention programs
that I encountered 9 years ago, as a probation officer supervising a
domestic violence caseload, have grown over those years. They have =
become
more attuned to, and have consistently made concerted efforts to meet, =
the
needs of the men who go through their programs. Common Purpose made
batterer intervention programming a reality at Dorchester District =
Court,
when it opened local groups and offered a community service option for
indigent men. Its director, Mitch Rothenberg, was willing to take the
"risk" of offering community service. By making that a real option, he
allowed the probation department and the court to address real need and, =
at
the same time, expose those who were using "inability to pay" as an =
excuse
for not attending batterer intervention programming. When the economy =
was
booming in Boston, in fact very few probationers took the community =
service
option. That dynamic has changed significantly in the past year, when
opportunities for under the table jobs and day labor jobs have =
decreased.
And yet, Common Purpose and our other primary batterer intervention
providers (EMERGE and RoxComp) continue to work closely with the court =
to
ensure that programming is available to indigent clients. In addition, =
I
have seen a tremendous increase in these programs' attention to the
realities of these men's lives and circumstances, to the oppression that
they encounter in society and in the criminal justice system. In terms =
of
acknowledging the importance of culture, EMERGE offers an African
American/Caribbean group, a Latino group, a Vietnamese group, a =
Cambodian
group, a lesbian group and a gay men's group. Transition House has
established a Haitian program. The Massachusetts Alliance of Portuguese
Speakers offers a Portuguese group and a Cape Verdean group. We are
extremely fortunate to have these resources for our probationers and for
community residents. The days when programming was offered without =
taking
culture and social justice issues to heart are long gone in my =
neighborhood.
Instead, I see these programs making every effort to "push the envelope" =
to
meet the needs of the people in their groups, their partners, their
children, and the community. For example, three of our programs, Common
Purpose, EMERGE, and RoxComp, are currently working with the Family =
Violence
Prevention Fund to develop and pilot "parenting tools" that could be
imbedded in their curriculum.
Dee Kennedy
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 6 23:44:13 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:44:13 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] An Evolving Field - Continued (from Dee Kennedy)
Message-ID: <002a01c32c85$897da050$3877510c@jimmy88>
I have been heartened by the discussion of the need for prevention =
efforts
in this field. The criminal justice system, similar to the education
system, and the health care system, in my opinion applies a tiny bandage =
to
a wound that is hemorrhaging. It is so busy dealing with the high =
volume of
criminal cases that it processes, that it has little energy and =
resources
left to lend to prevention efforts. As many in the discussion have =
noted,
the criminal justice response is needed. And, while one might agree that =
it
is not meeting the needs of men who are physically abusive that don't =
enter
the system and their families, it unfortunately, has plenty of business =
with
the limited number of people that it reaches. I agree that prevention
efforts should be fostered and supported throughout the community, and I
agree that resourcing those efforts is a tremendous challenge given the
competing needs of so many systems.
Dave Mathews mentioned the people at "the source of the river" who were
trying to stop people who were jumping in. In Boston, we are fortunate =
to
have some great prevention efforts underway. The Boston Cares Network =
has
produced some wonderful public awareness campaign information targeted =
at
men that has been extremely well received in the African American =
community.
The Boston Public Health Commission, beyond hosting the two outreach =
workers
that educate men in the community and work one on one with men who have
restraining orders issued against them at Dorchester District Court, is
piloting a fatherhood curriculum that has domestic violence prevention
imbedded in it. The Men of Color Fatherhood Education and Violence
Prevention Project paired the expertise of the Domestic Violence Program
staff and that of the Father Friendly Initiative. Two 24 week =
curriculums,
one for African American men and a Spanish one for Latino men, have been
developed that deal with intimate partner violence and appropriate
parenting. I have been very impressed with their efforts.
I think that when there is open dialogue amongst advocates, batterer
intervention facilitators, the criminal justice system professionals, =
and
community based agencies, the work can be moved forward in a way that
appropriately meets the needs of individuals, their families, and the
community. Sometimes these discussions are difficult or awkward due to
issues of mistrust of each other's roles, expertise, experience, =
motives,
and the "systems" that are in place. People have cited examples of =
positive
interactions and others that have not been so positive. But, I would
encourage everyone to stay at the table because each of us has a =
perspective
that when brought to the collective helps advance the quality of the =
work.
I would guess that is how the programs that were cited by the authors
developed and continue to enhance programming for men and the quality of
life for their partners and families. Seeing groups run by Men Stopping
Violence strengthened my conviction that respect is a key component of =
any
programming that seeks to effect change.
Dee Kennedy
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat Jun 7 00:00:55 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:00:55 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] working with men and the CCRI model (from Rus Funk)
Message-ID: <002b01c32c87$ded1bbc0$3877510c@jimmy88>
I have been reading with great interest the comments on these topics. =
Thanks
to all of you for offering your input -- it really has been quite =
amazing.
A couple of thoughts that I have to add to the discussion.
Regarding working with men and the CCRI model:
It seems to me that there is much that could be learned about working =
with
men who batter from the work that is done both with men who sexually =
offend
and from the parent's anonymous models. From the programs that work with =
men
who sexually offend, there is a growing movement at post indictment,
pre-sentencing assessments. Assessments are done to determine if a
particular sex offender is best suited for prison (and a prison based
program to work with men who sexually offend), non-prison locked =
program,
non-locked residential program, or community based program. In this =
way,
victim/survivor and community safety is kept at the forefront as
considerations are made as to how amenable someone is to working to =
accept
responsibility for his sexually offending actions.
Similarly, "graduation" from a program is based not on some artificial =
time
line (although average "treatment" is 2 - 3 years) but is rather based =
on
how well one demonstrates that they are truly getting and internalizing =
the
messages from the program.
Working with men who batter, it seems comes from a different base (in =
part
because it is more often a civil response rather than criminal). But it
does seem to me to be worth exploring models to asses which men who =
batter
are more amenable to group, and which need to be sent to jail. In =
addition,
it would seem most appropriate to remove the time line of intervention =
and
based his demonstration of internalizing the goals of the group/program
>From parent's anonymous there is the development of "help lines" and
community-based support groups. As a parent who may be afraid of acting
abusively towards my child (I am not a parent, but work with me...), I =
have
a place to call to be accountable and not be abusive, and a place I can =
go
(in many communities) to talk with others about how to not abuse my =
child,
and my feelings of wanting to.
While I certainly have my concerns about this kind of model with men who
batter, it does seem to me that there is something to be said about
developing some kinds of ongoing grassroots ways for men to continue =
working
on their abusiveness. I know for me, struggling against my own sexism =
and
racism is an ongoing, every day battle. The day I don't think about is =
the
day I begin acting out my sexism and racism. Granted there aren't =
hotlines
for that, but being involved in this (and other) movements and struggles
provides me with the contacts and support I need to continue to do my =
work
and be accountable.
It seems to me that the same is likely true for men who batter. Once a =
man
has crossed the line of putting his hands one someone he claims to love, =
his
work to never do that again is a life-long, daily struggle. Where are =
the
supports for him to continue that work? or do we revert back to =
masculinist
thinking that he should "figure it out on his own?
The other venue that I would suggest is to develop ways to identify =
men's
abusiveness other than physical or sexual violence. The power and =
control
wheel has been around for decades, and still, THE way that men get
identified and enter a program for men who batter is via his physical
abusiveness -- for that is one of only 2 of the spokes of the wheel that
are, in most cases, illegal. By focusing in stead on other tactics of =
power
and control and ways for men to identify (with themselves and each =
other)
abusive dynamics, it seems to me that we can begin developing the =
capacity
of our communities to respond more quickly, more immediately, and more
effectively to ending men's violence (at least domestic violence).
In terms of increasing community capacity, it seems to me that we have a
natural beginning of a continency. Rather than looking at men who =
batter as
clients that need to be cured, perhaps if we understood them as partners =
in
the struggle. Several years ago, in Baltimore, MD, I helped to develop =
a
community-based program working with men who sexually offend.-- mostly
adolescents. One of the requirements of the program was that they come =
with
me to do community education programs with adolescent boys-becoming-men =
on
ending sexism and sexual assault. In part, this was based on the tenet =
that
people learn best when they begin to teach, and in part this was based =
on
the tenet that these guys owed something back to the community (the
"treatment" was offered at no cost to them). I know of programs working
with men who batter that similarly require that the men in the group
organize a men's action (a march, a speak out, some kind of public event =
of
men speaking out against men's violence) and another that requires the =
men
in the group organize a fundraiser for the local domestic violence =
program.
These kinds of efforts help men to also learn that in addition to not =
acting
abusively, there are ways that they can join the effort to stop the =
violence
before it starts. With some continued tweaking and development, it =
seems to
me that these men, then, could become primed to be ambassadors of our
movement into communities that we aren't yet reaching.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat Jun 7 00:01:52 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:01:52 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] working with men multi-culturally (from Rus Funk)
Message-ID: <002c01c32c88$0f0b0260$3877510c@jimmy88>
I terms of working with men multi-culturally,
I should begin by saying that I come at this work as a community =
organizer,
not a treatment provider (tho I do that) and not as an educators (tho I =
do
that too -- and see education as one series of tools in community
organizing).
As such, working to mobilize and organize men to end sexist violence =
means
understanding that men of different cultural backgrounds have different
relationship with, and experience of, sexism, sexist violence, male
privilege and entitlements. As such, it is important to take those
differences into account when attempting to work with different =
populations
of men. Sexist violence is not only a weapon of sexism, but is also a =
weapon
of racism, homophobia, classism and other forms of institutionalized
oppression. In order to work effectively with men from a variety of
cultures, with the goal of bringing them into the movement, I need to be
articulate about how rape, domestic violence, pornography and =
prostitution
are used against people of color in general, and women of color in
particular; in ways that are different from the ways they are used =
against
European American women.
In part, this also means being somewhat cognizant of the ways that in =
every
culture there are justifications to sexist violence, and in every =
culture
there are arguments against sexism and sexist violence. The arguments =
that
are used to say that this or that culture "allows" or "encourages" or
"justifies" sexist violence (or any form of sexist violence) is simply
inaccurate and raises the question of who is speaking in those cultures =
that
allows, encourages or justifies sexist violence (generally it is male
hegemonic voices). Once that is challenged, then we can begin =
recognizing
and holding up the culturally-based voices that speak out against sexist
violence.
Rus Ervin Funk
rusfunk@starpower.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat Jun 7 00:13:55 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:13:55 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Bringing Discussion Two to an End (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <002d01c32c89$afb4cfb0$3877510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,
We are now bringing Discussion Two in the "Building Partnerships to End
Men's Violence Discussion Series" to an end. Many thanks to everyone who
contributed the thoughtful postings for this discussion, and a warm thank
you to our facilitators, Fernando Mederos and Julia Perilla.
Our next discussion, "Building Bridges between Responsible Fatherhood
Programs and Programs working to End Men's Violence with Jacquelyn Boggess,
Jerry Tello and Oliver Williams will take place June 16th - 27th.
We hope to hear from all of you then.
Best regards,
PEMVnet Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 16 14:43:18 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:43:18 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Building Bridges Between Fatherhood Programs And Programs Working To End Men's Violence: An Interview With Jacquelyn Boggess, Jerry Tello, And Oliver Williams
Message-ID: <3EEDD786.9010809@mencanstoprape.org>
BUILDING BRIDGES BETWEEN FATHERHOOD PROGRAMS AND PROGRAMS WORKING TO END
MEN'S VIOLENCE:
AN INTERVIEW WITH JACQUELYN BOGGESS, JERRY TELLO, AND OLIVER WILLIAMS
A fundamental goal of the Building Partnerships to End Men's Violence
Initiative is to build partnerships between domestic and sexual violence
prevention programs and community based organizations that already reach
large numbers of men and boys. The many hundreds of programs working
with fathers in communities across the country represent one such
opportunity for collaboration. There are important reasons to promote
such collaboration. Research shows that the presence of a caring adult
male can have a long-term positive impact on children, improving their
academic success, mental health, and ability to establish healthy
intimate partner relationships. In this sense, father involvement
programs can be seen as integral to preventing domestic violence. At
the same time, however, the goal of father involvement raises important
concerns for battered women and their children, and for those who work
to secure their safety.
The interview that follows grapples with some of the challenges posed by
closer collaboration between people working to stop violence against
women and those promoting responsible fatherhood. For example, the
discussion offers strategies for addressing the tension between survivor
safety and father involvement. The interview describes the important
philosophical and programmatic differences between batterer intervention
programs and responsible fatherhood programs and points to ways in which
each can learn from the other. Throughout, the interviewees share their
ideas on cultural competence and make explicit the connections they see
between violence against women and other forms of oppression. The
interview is infused with a shared sense of optimism and a profound
respect for community driven solutions that recognize the
interconnectedness of all the people involved in them.
The interview was conducted in early 2003 by Dean Peacock, a consultant
for the Family Violence Prevention Fund's Building Partnerships to End
Men's Violence Initiative, with three practitioners who have been
working over many years to build bridges between the movements to end
men's violence and to promote responsible fatherhood. The interviewees
are: Jacquelyn Boggess of the Center for Fathers, Families and Public
Policy; Jerry Tello of the National Latino Fatherhood and Family
Institute; and Oliver Williams of the Institute on Domestic Violence in
the African American Community.
Dean: Let's talk a bit about the fatherhood field. I have heard both
Jacquelyn and Oliver talk about three distinct groupings of fatherhood
organizations.
Jacquelyn: I think for a lot of people the immediate response to
fatherhood groups is fathers' rights organizations. That is not the
kind of organization that we are talking about collaborating with.
Those in fathers' rights organizations tend to be men that have more
money. They tend to be men who are going to work their situations out
in a courtroom, and, frankly, do not attend the kind of fatherhood
groups that we are talking about.
There is a second category of fatherhood groups-responsible fatherhood
organizations. Some of the federal legislation in the late 1990s sought
to create and economically support this type of fatherhood program.
These organizations address financial matters like child support and
joblessness.
The third kind of fatherhood organization I would call "father
involvement." They are the kind that we are looking to collaborate
with; they are natural organizations that spring up in groups of men who
want to help other men in the community and have a community feel. They
are a place for men to go to talk about what they have been going
through, in their work and in their relationships. Father involvement
groups sprang up a long time ago, without much money. They existed on a
shoestring with volunteers, people just wanting to be helpful and to
change their communities.
Dean: You have all been part of this national discussion about the
importance of building alliances among people who are working with
fathers and people who are working to end men's violence. Can you each
talk a little bit about what you feel is important about bringing these
two fields closer together?
Oliver: I think that sometimes we have had these narrow compartments
that have shaped how we have thought about and done violence work. We
have had this perspective that what we do is to help battered women
leave the person who has been abusive to them. Once we have managed to
find a place for her to be safe, then our job is done. But sometimes
battered women return to their partners, or maintain relationships with
the fathers of their children. So sometimes you have an ongoing,
co-parenting relationship. For us not to attend to what that means in
terms of safety and accountability means that we leave a reality for
some battered women. A number of battered women do need to get away
from their partners. But many want their ex-partner to take
responsibility for and contribute to the well being of their children.
Jerry: Well, it is not the best perspective to begin with whether or
not we should build partnerships across programs. Community members do
not separate themselves based on the programs that they go to. The
community bases its connections on its needs. Fathers and brothers and
uncles and mothers and daughters and grandmothers are all connected, and
they all have issues, and they all have wounds, and they all have
strengths. What happens sometimes is that we, in our limited insight as
practitioners, begin to separate the community based on our needs. And
sometimes what that ends up doing is contributing to the trauma and
isolation, and inhibiting the healing that could be going on.
Dean: What would a community-based approach look like that attempts to
assist fathers to be both good partners and good parents?
Jerry: I think that looking at the whole does not mean there are not
parts of the whole that function sometimes separately and sometimes
interdependently. But, regardless of what part of the circle you
operate from, it's important to always have the perspective of the total
circle. In the programs that we do and train people to do, regardless
of whether we are calling it fatherhood, anger management, domestic
violence services or rites of passage, there are issues and themes that
are very much the same across the board.
Some men come in who are young fathers, and they have certain issues
that they are dealing with. Some men come in because they need a job.
But even in that, they've got to go home. So part of their job
preparation has to also include work on their family relationships,
because if things do not go well there, they are not going to have a job
for very long. Then we get court-ordered men and if you look at their
history, they have generations of baggage. And so they come in from a
different part of the circle. But wherever they come from, whether it
is little boys or young fathers or men who have been violent, everything
is looked at from the center of the circle, which is maintaining sacred
relationships. We need to have a similar focus of purpose, regardless
of what type of program we are doing.
Dean: That is a significantly different approach than most batterer
intervention programs take, where the man comes in typically because he
has been referred by the criminal justice system.
Oliver: Yes, I do think that that is true. When father involvement
staff do an assessment, they figure out that there is a range of things
that this person needs, and then they try to respond to that range of
needs. Some of the really deep, good programs will do cross-training
and will include domestic violence even when they are focusing primarily
on substance abuse or unemployment. In the fatherhood programs that I
have seen, they are trying to deal with the person and with healing and
restoration. I do not know if the reverse is true. Domestic violence
programs often do not expand the range of issues because they are there
to talk about the violence.
Jerry: In some fatherhood programs, the premise is that with education
and with motivation men can be better fathers. But when wounds are very
deep, lifelong violent wounds that have come from fathers and
grandfathers and great grandfathers, generations deep, those wounds do
not heal so quickly. Those wounds do not heal just from motivation and
education. Sometimes it takes a deeper type of intervention for more
accountable, healthy relationships to develop. I'm very concerned about
getting generic fatherhood programs to also try to heal men who have
very significant wounds.
Dean: Ideally, if we think about responsible fatherhood programs being
more sensitive to and more proactive about the issue of domestic
violence, and batterer intervention programs being more thoughtful about
fatherhood, what would we want to see first?
Jacquelyn: This is really an important question for me. We have to be
very careful about what we say that fatherhood programs can or should or
will do. I think you described where we are, Oliver, when you said that
everybody agrees that the collaboration has to be done. I would really
caution us, though, not to come up with concrete standards or plans
yet. I think there is so much talk that has to happen first.
Practitioners in fatherhood programs keep telling me with regard to
domestic violence, "I'm afraid. I'm afraid to do anything because I do
not want to make things worse. I do not want to mess up." In the end,
that is not where we want to be-the place where they are too scared to
do anything at all. In some cases, however, maybe that is where we want
to be right now, because we could mess up if we start too soon. I would
really caution that we slow down and talk about this over and over and
over again.
Dean: What do you think the substance of that conversation needs to
include?
Jacquelyn: The conversation needs to address whether fatherhood
programs should refer out for domestic violence services, for example.
Is that the way we should do it most often? If we are not going to
refer out, does that mean we need to have a certified person who works
in the fatherhood program? Does referring out work? Oliver and I were
in a meeting where people said if you refer someone out for services,
you lose them. If you are going to do provide services in-house, what
does that mean? I do not know. Those are not the answers. They are
the questions.
Jerry: I think there are some things we can agree on-that violence in
relationships is not acceptable, and that we all need to do something
about it. So that can be a resounding common voice, regardless of where
we are in the circle. Whether we are doing an intake or working with
somebody to get them a job, or working in a teen fatherhood program or a
batterers' program, we can all agree on that. If you are in the
fatherhood field, then you need to have somebody connected to child
welfare and to batterers' intervention and to the rest of the parts of
the circle. We need to recognize that everyone in the community needs
to take some responsibility, and then be connected to those people who
are better equipped to do what you cannot.
Oliver: I think that we do need to talk more about capacity building.
The issue of domestic violence needs to be part of the repertoire of the
people who are working in fatherhood programs and there has got to be an
assessment about capacity in this area. Different people and programs
have differing capacity to handle the intensity of domestic violence
work. This needs to be acknowledged and discussed. And different
skills are required depending on where the men are in the process of
taking responsibility for their behavior. Some men have a really hard
time taking responsibility for their own violence, and some have a hard
time speaking up about other people's violence.
Dean: One of the things we have not talked about much are the safety
concerns that come up quite frequently when we talk about men who have
been violent staying connected to the women through the children. So we
want the man to be a good father to the kids, but he has a history of
violence. What systems do we put in place to keep the survivors safe?
Oliver: We must recognize that there are questions around safety. In a
fathering program, just like a batterers' program, if a person is going
to be harmful to themselves or to someone else, you have got to report
the case. In visitation centers and other places, we have to think
about the potential harm that somebody could do. We have to put this on
the table. In criminal court, or dependency or family court, we have to
look at what a person has done to really change their behavior. We have
to ask the question, "What is the evidence of change?" I'm not so sure
that we ask this question often enough.
Jerry: I think it is about redefining what the expectations of
honorable relationships are. That definition needs to very clearly
specify that violence is not included. But it must go beyond that to
include a focus on nurturance. I think that is something that many
batterer intervention programs do not do. They talk about prevention of
violence and go through exercises to move men away from the violence,
but these steps do not necessarily take men to the nurturing part. We
need to do that work.
What we tell men is, "You've got to show up. Be present." That is very
hard for some men, especially some men of color, who get questioned and
checked all day long and have had that happen to them historically.
Just to show up, to be present with your total spirit, is a major
thing. We talk about being present in the life of your relationship.
After you show up, you have got to be able to pay attention. Pay
attention to what your partner needs. Pay attention to what your role
should be. Pay attention to when you need to speak up, when you need to
be quiet, when you need to be attentive, when you can be nurturing and
when you need to back off a little bit and give some space. Then you
have got to give your heart. You have got to give your love. Do it
with love. Do not do it with hate. Do not do it with anger. You have
got to do it with love. And love sometimes means shutting up.
Sometimes it means you follow. Sometimes it means being patient.
Sometimes it means speaking up, and sometimes it means taking the lead
or taking a risk. Finally, we tell men to give it up. Giving it up
means spiritually looking to a greater source, or recognizing that you
are not in control. Forget about control. It is about walking with
others, putting out your hand, and being a partner that is across from
another partner, being a partner to your child, a partner to your
relationship, a partner in your community.
Oliver: That is an interesting thing, Jerry, because it is the idea of
balance. That notion appears in conversations about what manhood means
for African American men. To keep your vitality, you must have
balance. You cannot let one emotion or facet of your being constantly
overtake you.
Jerry: People from different roots have their own rhythm and their own
song, and I think we need to honor that because the violence or the pain
that we bring to relationships comes through a certain history.
Therefore, when we are attempting to reconnect people or heal people, we
need to respect their culture and their roots, their ethnicity,
traditions and customs.
Oliver: We are dealing with people who carry different baggage, who
change at different paces, and who heal at different paces. I do not
know how to deal with this because there is no language for this in
batterers' treatment. But I think in fathering programs, because they
serve such a wide spectrum of men, there is. Sometimes when we talk
about batterers' treatment, we say, "Once a batterer, always a
batterer." That has influenced the way that we approach the work. We
have to find a range of ways to reach this population, and I do not
believe that we have developed all the ways that we can reach them. We
have to find different and better ways to identify and engage men who
may be violent and help prevent the problem. And maybe this is a thing
that I get from fathering programs. I think that there is hope.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 16 14:51:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:51:24 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion 3: Building Bridges between Responsible Fatherhood Programs and Programs Working to End Men's Violence
Message-ID: <3EEDD96C.7050803@mencanstoprape.org>
Dear Discussion Participants,
Today marks the beginning of Discussion 3 of the Building Partnerships
to End Men's Violence Online Discussion Series: Building Bridges between
Responsible Fatherhood Programs and Programs Working to End Men's
Violence. The overview for this discussion, sent in a separate email, is
entitled "Building Bridges between Fatherhood Programs and Programs
Working to End Men's Violence: An Interview with Jacquelyn Boggess,
Jerry Tello, and Oliver Williams." In addition to the overview, we ask
you to please familiarize yourself with the full paper, as well as the
case studies for this discussion, found on our website:
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussion3.php
The website also features biographies of the three interview
participants, and links to websites for the co-sponsors of this discussion.
We welcome your comments or questions regarding this paper. We hope you
enjoy this discussion and thank you for your participation.
Sincerely, PEMV-net moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 19 18:01:46 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pemv-net] Fatherhood groups and domestic violence service providers (from Pat McGann)
Message-ID: <5964129.1056045862208.JavaMail.nobody@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
I found Jacquelyn Boggess' distinctions among fatherhood groups -
fathers's rights, father involvement, responsible fatherhood - in the
interview with Dean Peacock helpful and interesting. In Washington, DC,
we've initiated dialogues between fatherhood groups and domestic
violence service providers, and part of this process has involved
sorting out and clarifying just what kinds of fatherhood groups are
engaging in these dialogues. The only groups many of the DV people were
familiar with were "father's rights" and so there was some distrust and
suspicion. But most of the organizations in the Metro DC
Male/Fatherhood Network are "father involvement," with a few that can be
categorized as "responsible fatherhood." Had we had Jacquelyn's
categories, we might have found the process of clarification a little
easier.
There has generally been excitement about the dialogues in DC on the
part all those involved. Everyone agrees that the goal is healthier,
safer relationships that benefit women and children, as well as men. We
further recognize that together, we can provide more comprehensive
services than apart. We've had to stress these shared values to help us
continue to work through some of the tensions. And we've had to
establish ground rules for discussion to create a sense of safety.
We've found that there are triggers - words or ideas that raise
people's sense of distrust - we've had to become aware of and avoid.
Some examples are: reunification, the male-basher stereotype,
statements about sexuality/sexual preference, and family violence, which
generalizes (minimizes) violence against women. Another challenge we've
found is maintaining the dialogues. We have no designated funding for
these dialogues, and all of us are busy. And some of the organizations
are dismantling because of lack of funds.
I'm wondering whether anyone else has initiated such dialogues and what
kinds of challenges they have faced, as well as the ways in which the
dialogues have been constructive. Or if you haven't initiated such
dialogues, why not? What's holding you back?
Best,
Pat
Pat McGann
Director of Outreach
Men Can Stop Rape
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 19 18:29:11 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:29:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion #3--An invitation to participate and some questions to consider (from the moderators)
Message-ID: <3797676.1056047508046.JavaMail.nobody@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
At its core, the Building Partnerships Initiative to End Men's Violence represents an attempt to move beyond a narrow reliance on the criminal justice system for solutions to domestic and sexual violence. Through a series of regional meetings held with key leaders in the field and through this online discussion series, the BPI aims instead to build alliances with organizations that reach large numbers of men and boys
and, through these, to promote greater community involvement in both intervening effectively to stop violence and to prevent it from happening in the first place.
The BPI discussion series launched this last Monday offers one example of this kind of alliance building-it focuses on work underway across the country to forge partnerships between those working to end men's violence and a diverse set of programs and practitioners working to promote responsible fatherhood. As Jackson Katz articulated in his first paper, the task of building partnerships entails a search for common ground and a willingness to look beyond immediate differences in ideology and sometimes practice.
We've chosen to profile the emerging collaborative work with fatherhood programs both because it is important work that deserves serious consideration and also because it illustrates some of the challenges associated with building a "big tent" approach to ending men's violence. On the one hand, father involvement can be seen as integral to preventing domestic violence--research suggests that the presence of a caring adult male can have a long-term positive impact on children, improving their academic success, mental health, and ability to establish healthy intimate partner relationships. On the other hand,
the goal of father involvement raises important concerns for battered women and their advocates. After all, men who batter often use their children as a way to maintain power and control over their partners.
Despite these differences, activists all across the country have found common ground. The interview and case studies that form the basis of this third online discussion point to some of the strategies that have made this possible. We hope that the themes contained within the interviews and the 5 accompanying case studies resonate with those of you striving to build "non-traditional" partnerships in your own communities. We hope also that you can find the time to share your responses to the interview and the case studies, and to the broader theme of building a "big tent" approach to ending men's violence. We're
especially eager to learn about your own successes and/or difficulties in building similar partnerships-whether it be with fatherhood related programs or other community based programs that reach men.
For those of you who haven't yet attempted to build partnerships with responsible fatherhood programs (or with other non-traditional partners)or for those of you who are struggling to figure out how to engage with this discussion, a few questions might be worth considering:
1. When working with men who have histories of being abusive to help them have better relationships with their children, how do we continue to prioritize the safety of battered women?
2. What can practitioners working with men who batter or stakeholders whose primary work it is to prevent men's violence learn from responsible fatherhood and positive male involvement programs?
3. What successes have you had in building partnerships or in
constructing a "big tent" approach? What has made it difficult to
establish these kinds of partnerships in your work?
4. What would help you to build partnerships in your community
(resources, technical assistance etc)?
We look forward to your comments.
BPI Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 19 18:36:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:36:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re:Fatherhood groups and domestic violence service providers from Pat McGann (from Valerie L'Herrou)
Message-ID: <842294.1056047921255.JavaMail.nobody@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
In Virginia there are a few of the "good" types of fatherhood groups you mention. These still haven't worked closely enough with SA/DV advocates, but some are starting to. The VA Dept of Health, actually, has helped by providing some trainings where some of the people who work with men in these organizations learn more about sexual assault so that they are not inadvertently passing along messages that reinforce gender stereotypes that further male violence.
There are also many of the "bad" fathers' rights groups here, and they've had a big impact on getting judges appointed who are in favor of fathers' rights. People without an understanding of the dynamics of abuse don't understand what's wrong with this. But statistics show that the men who are most likely to seek custody of their children after a divorce are batterers. Their aim is not to provide their children with "stable homes" (as they usually say) but to continue to control their exwives, through their children, after the divorce. Many of these men
also abuse their children directly.
The fathers' rights groups seem well organized and well-funded
(bringing busloads of men to the general assembly to lobby, for
instance) so it's no wonder that the advocate groups feel distrustful of them.
I think perhaps the fatherhood involvement groups need to learn why the advocates are wary of them, and become more educated regarding some of the terminology "triggers" you mention, as well as seek out the advocates and partner with them...
Valerie
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 19 18:42:13 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:42:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pemv-net] BPI fatherhood discussion--Restorative parenting (from Christina)
Message-ID: <4305326.1056048289210.JavaMail.nobody@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
I read the paper on the 'Restorative Parenting' program out of the Twin cities and I am interested in learning more about that-who can I contact? As a facilitator for a batterer's treatment program, I find that a large portion of our time is spent on parenting issues. Whatever has happened, and whether or not the participant takes responsibility for the situation that got them arrested, if they have children they are always interested in the parenting portion of the group. I am looking for 'tools' that these men can utilize in order to begin repairing their parental relationships.
Thank You
Christina
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 19 19:29:51 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Pemv-net] =?646?Q?Working_in_both_fields_(from_Juan_Carlos_Are=3F=3Fn)?=
Message-ID: <5786070.1056051147800.JavaMail.nobody@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Thank you for another great paper! Thumbs up to Dean, Jacquie, Jerry and O=
liver for covering the key issues involving this collaboration with great w=
isdom and eloquence!
This is a topic that is very close to my heart because I have worked extens=
ively both with fathers and men who batter. And, obviously, I=E2=80=99m no=
t the only person who has had such experience. I was trained at the Men=E2=
=80=99s Resource Center of Western Massachusetts (MRC), where these two fie=
lds thrive side by side. In fact, folks at the MRC (and other organization=
s=20
such as the MRC of Northern New Mexico and CORIAC in Mexico City) do not se=
e fatherhood work and batterers=E2=80=99 intervention as two different trac=
ks, but basically as two sides of the same coin. At the center of the MRC =
philosophy is the idea that stereotypical, traditional masculinity is toxic=
not only for men=E2=80=99s families, but also for the men themselves. The=
masculine=20
socialization box described in the work of Paul Kivel and Jackson Katz teac=
hes us that men have to be in control at all times and that we have to vict=
imize others if we don=E2=80=99t want to be victimized. But this box also =
directs us to repress our feelings and hide our vulnerability, which can be=
=20
very damaging to our health and spirit.
Unhealthy masculinity, therefore, encourages us to be controlling and viole=
nt with women, children and other men and it also forces us to be less huma=
n by ignoring our feelings and those of others. I think this analysis=20
can accommodate the seemingly divergent goals of different programs for men=
, such as stopping violence against women and children, making men better f=
athers and supporting men in their process of growth and change. These goa=
ls are not mutually exclusive. In my view, the problems often start when=
=20
our fear leads us to believe that one goal must supercede the others.
I have found that this approach has even helped me to build bridges with ot=
her men=E2=80=99s groups that have not been discussed in these series, such=
as the followers of the mytho-poetic men=E2=80=99s movement.
I don=E2=80=99t want to sound na=C3=AFve about the problems that can create=
mistrust between the different camps, like the =E2=80=9Ctrigger=E2=80=9D l=
anguage (and supporting beliefs) that Pat McGann describes. However, as th=
e interviewees concur, if we genuinely want to build bridges we need to sta=
rt looking at the potential=20
commonalties that there are between these groups. And my experience is tha=
t those are not too hard to find.
Blessings to all,
Juan Carlos Are=C3=A1n
Boston, Mass.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 15:15:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:15:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] The modifier "responsible" (from Jeremy Simons)
Message-ID: <000201c3373e$ca06f720$3301510c@jimmy88>
I take some issue with the title of this discussion "RESPONSIBLE =
fatherhood
programs". Is there an underlying bias that puts the word "responsible" =
in
front "fatherhood programs," apart from separating the "bad" programs =
from
the "good" ones. Does it conveys on the surface that "fatherhood" is
intrinsically irresponsible? =20
If we turned it around from the fatherhood perspective, are all DV =
shelters
"good", that is, in terms of "male bashing" or other excesses? Should =
we in
the "responsible" fatherhood movement only work with "responsible" DV
programs? I have not heard of any "responsible" teen moms or parenting
programs, just teen moms programs and parenting programs. Does this tie =
in
to a larger bias or discounting of fathers? Is the idea of "fatherhood" =
too
close to patriarchy that we need to modify it with "responsible?" =20
As a concrete example, this past spring, there was an interview with a
police officer in the Denver Post who had returned children who had been
staying with in-laws to the mother because "children are supposed to be =
with
their mother". Unfortunately, as the in-laws had tried to tell the case
workers and police, she was off her medications and not ready to be
parenting. A few days later, she committed suicide by driving off a =
cliff
with the children and a niece, killing one of them.=20
In Denver, we have a progressive and unique Fatherhood coalition =
composed of
government social services, individuals, non-profit parenting programs,
educational programs, criminal justice representatives, faith based =
groups
and more. Usage of the terminology "responsible" fatherhood is one that =
we
have tried to discourage in the popular consciousness because we want to
convey that fatherhood, without modifiers, is good. Is this somehow =
related
to that other popular stereotype of the "dead-beat dad", that recent
research has shown was more like the dead-broke dad. I guess the bigger
question is what to do with these simplistic, often pop-culture-inspired
(thanks to Jerry Springer), clich=E9s and stereotypes. If they help =
mobilize
people (especially politicians)=20
to act, should we make the most of it?
Jeremy Simons
young fathers=20
case manager
jeremysimons@centura.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 15:22:22 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:22:22 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] common ground among programs (from Jacquelyn Boggess)
Message-ID: <000301c3373f$bf981bb0$3301510c@jimmy88>
It is very good to see this interest in the topic. I am also happy to =
hear
people's experience with fatherhood work and with collaboration between
fatherhood service providers and battered women's advocates.
Valerie gave us some of her experiences, and I think that it is very
important for us to be mindful of the issues she encountered. Because =
both
of these "sides" have worked in parallel fields, because their paths =
have
tended not to cross, and frankly, because our society has reinforced =
each
side to see each other as a part of the problem, there can be a lot of
tension and insecurity in the collaboration.=20
It must be acknowledged that some fatherhood programs have traditionally
included an element of peer support that suggests that the duty of =
fathers
and, in some cases of husbands and partners, is to accept and exercise =
their
"responsibility" to control, and direct individual family members. This =
is
an issue on which various advocates for low-income men and women--on an
individual basis and on an individual programs basis--will likely find
themselves of divergent opinions. This issue and its resolution will be =
an
important aspect of the broader conversation.
Given the difficulty and the work of the discussions to come, it is not =
easy
to figure out why we should work together. Why jump through this new =
hoop?
We all certainly have enough work. One way to approach these =
collaborations
and to clarify our purpose is to look again at "fatherhood" programs. We =
are
all fairly clear on the "father's rights" groups. They are not social
service programs, they tend to denigrate battered women and their =
advocates,
and they are mostly concerned about custody and child support. Frankly, =
I
see no reason to work with them.
The lines between the other to types of programs often get blurred. For
these two, it is better to distinguish them as to their goals. The =
first
type of fatherhood program goal is to provide services that "encourage" =
the
"healthy two-parent family." This should sound familiar as a goal of the
1996 welfare reform law. For those interested in funding and promoting =
this
kind of program, the goal is now "healthy married families." Federal
government funding requires that programs provide services that =
"encourage
healthy marriages." The pursuit of this goal, just like the pursuit of =
the
goals of "fathers rights" programs can, in many cases, conflict with the
safety needs of women and children. =20
The other type of fatherhood program goal is to provide services to men
(most particularly very low-income men) such as employment and training,
parenting education, and peer support. One may or may not call this the
"good" type of fatherhood program, but as an advocate for individuals in
low-income families, it is a goal I support.=20
=20
So does this mean that every "good" fatherhood program is good, or =
available
for serious collaboration work to help stop violence against women and
children. No, not necessarily. This is true, especially considering the
fact that though many community fatherhood programs began with the goal =
of
social services for men and their children, more programs are accepting
government funding, and as a result this goal can be subordinated to the
goal of marriage promotion.
Still, for women's advocates these type of fatherhood programs may be a =
good
place to start. It may also be an important place to start because this
collaboration can lead to a united front against funding requirements =
(and
TANF policies) that disregard the importance of violence prevention, and
employment/training and education (for women and men) in favor of =
marriage
promotion.
To start our discussions on some common ground, I have tried to =
articulate
some social welfare policy notions on which advocates can agree. That
agreement might include the following premises: (1) safety from family
violence is of paramount importance; (2) fatherhood programs are not
batterer's intervention programs; (3) there is some value for low-income
fathers, their families, and for society to provide them with employment =
and
other social welfare services; and (4) the great majority of the men and
women who would be affected by these government fatherhood policy =
decisions
are poor, as are their children. =20
Do we all agree on these? and What are other points of common ground?
Jacquelyn Boggess
Senior Policy Analyst
Center for Fathers, Families, and Public Policy
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 19:30:54 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:30:54 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: common ground among programs (from Valerie L'Herrou)
Message-ID: <000801c33762$786f5230$d80a510c@jimmy88>
Regarding the posting from Jacquelyn, thanks for your cogent summing-up =
of
issues. I agree with all of your listed premises and would add one: that =
the
overall, paramount mission of any program should be: to further the =
safety
and well-being of children.
Also regarding Jeremy's question about the modifier "responsible":
I think that rather than implying that fatherhood is intrinsically
irresponsible, modifying "fatherhood" with "responsible" takes the
value-neutral term "fatherhood" and turns it into a positive: =
"responsible
fatherhood."
Unfortunately, it doesn't take much to be a father. But it does take
something to be a responsible father. I assume the goal of your program =
is
to help young fathers to be responsible fathers, not just fathers.
Unfortunately, again, the father's rights groups make the argument that
their status as fathers is enough to gain them rights. But the flip side =
of
rights is responsibilities.
Not all mothers are responsible, but, biologically, they are more often =
put
in the position of *having* to be responsible. (It has also been shown =
that
hormonal changes that happen in women's bodies during pregnancy and
postpartum create bonds between infant and mother that foster
responsibility. Research also suggests that fathers who are emotionally
connected to and physically present with mothers and infants as they go
through these hormonal changes may also be more likely to develop these
bonds).
Causes, social or biological, aside, statistically -- sorry -- =
dead-beat,
dead-broke, or not, far too many fathers are, all too often, not =
present,
not responsible, or even abusive. The point of organizations such as =
yours,
I think, is to change that. To help fathers to be responsible. No?
Valerie L'Herrou
Coalition Projects Director
Virginians Aligned Against Sexual Assault
http://www.vaasa.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 19:33:57 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:33:57 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] raising the standard...(from Jeremy NeVilles-Sorell)
Message-ID: <000901c33762$e5030950$d80a510c@jimmy88>
I like that this topic is following after the "big tent" discussion and
batterer's intervention program because I feel that this is an =
opportunity
to bring more community based groups together to raise the social =
standard.
When I was coordinating the Visitation Center we had a father's group =
that
was primarily focused on educating men on how their violence against =
their
children's mother impacts their kids directly. The facilitators (I
personally wasn't a facilitator) would frequently state that all of the =
men
wanted to be better parents and prior to attending the group never =
realized
what they were teaching their children. This was the only court ordered
group that once the men completed their court required 12 groups they
actually continued coming - this was opposite the BIP participants who =
would
be out of there ASAP. One particular man had attended 86 groups over =
the
course of three years at the time I switched into a different program =
(so I
don't know how many he ended up with in total). Unfortunately, budget
constraints lead to inconsistent groups (we'd run them for several =
months
then cancel them, than on again, etc.) and currently we'd like to get =
those
going again.
I like Jeremy Simons comment on doing away with modifiers - but I think =
that
is a goal to work toward because we aren't there yet. We do live in a =
world
were father's have rights and mother have the responsibility. Father's
still "baby sit" their own kids - hell, Sears has just been running =
their TV
ads for their annual 24 hour sale and its always the kid messing up the
house and the father's saying "where is your mother!" and the commercial
closes with the narrator saying "it's only for one day guys." So to me =
that
still reaffirms we need to state men have responsibility. How many men =
try
to brag about spending time with their kids or paying child support? =
That's
what your supposed to do! I don't know about anyone else but I know a =
few
people like that. You see, I think as men and as father's we still =
gauge
our success in small increments. If we are doing one thing better that =
how
we were raised then we praise ourselves for it (this was a frequent
statement in father's group too). I also see men getting a lot of =
praise
for being with their children when a woman next to him could be doing =
the
same thing and we don't think anything of it. I did that myself one =
morning
coming to work (and it was after working in the visitation center for 3
years) where I saw a man pushing a stroller down the street and thought =
"oh,
that's so nice to see a father out with his kid" and my next thought was
disbelief for actually thinking that! How many time have I've seen =
women
pushing strollers and never once did that same thought cross my mind.
I really feel some excellent work can be done by working with father's
programs or adding effects of violence on children to BIP curricula. Us
guys are not really prepared from youth to become responsible parents so =
as
adults we need the support to model better parenting and respectful
relationships so our children don't need to follow the same haphazard =
method
of being a Dad.
Miigwech,
Jeremy NeVilles-Sorell
Mending the Sacred Hoop
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 19:38:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:38:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] working with fathers (from Ron Liszak)
Message-ID: <000f01c33763$79b99000$d80a510c@jimmy88>
Great discussion so far. My work includes working with young fathers as =
part
of the Futures program in Missoula Montana. Futures is a family =
empowerment
program for teen parents, I work as the young fathers advocate. As part =
of
my job, I facilitate a father's support group. I also work with them
individually, sometimes in the jail. Soon after starting this work I =
became
aware that I needed to address violence and attitudes toward women as =
part
of my ongoing mission. My agency was generous enough to send me to
trainings, including Mentors on Violence Prevention (MVP), and the Wise =
Guys
male responsibility curriculum. I think it is crucial for people working
with men on any level to speak about violent attitudes, language that =
puts
down or bashes women, and sexist comments. Men need to learn how to
intervene when they know that other men they know are hurting women. =
Young
men especially can be helped to see their own biases in their attitudes
about the "mans role in the home and relationship". They can be made =
aware
of the choices they make and their responsibility to form nurturing
interactions with their families and other people they come into contact
with. They also need to learn to nurture themselves.
As practitioners, we need to focus on the good in the men we work with.
By accepting and supporting them, we are in a position to give them the
tools they need to become supporting and accepting of the women in their
lives and to be able to speak with other men they come into contact with
about the issue of men's violence against women that we all come up =
against
again and again in our society. It is a very small but important =
investment
to provide a little training in prevention to the people working in
fatherhood projects. Some of the men we work with are abusive on some =
level,
some are not. This gives us a good chance to establish peer support =
toward
change. In my work with young fathers, I have found that most young men =
are
receptive to ideas that come from a trusted, non judgmental mentor, and
willing to help their peers when given a new way to be.
To further educate myself, I have become a member of the Missoula Family
Violence Council. Getting involved on this level has allowed me to =
further
understand and support the work of the DV practitioners in my community.
They are also getting to know me and we are forming ways to collaborate =
and
continue our work in harmony. I believe that if at all possible, people =
who
work with fathers should make themselves available to the DV community =
as a
resource, and to foment learning and familiarity on both fronts. We are =
all
intermingled.
Ron Liszak
Young Fathers Advocate
WORD / Futures
Missoula MT
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 21:16:52 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:16:52 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] responsible fatherhood (from Jacquelyn Boggess)
Message-ID: <000501c33771$45dadfb0$d80a510c@jimmy88>
I would like to make a quick comment on the "responsible fatherhood"
discussion. Personally, and as a representative of my organization, I =
do
not use the modifier "responsible. Here is why.
Again I would like to return to my point about government funding. =20
Government fatherhood funding has (so far) been for very low-income
families. I think that the government programs use responsible as an
admonition to poor people in general, not just fathers. Again I will =
refer
you to the 1996 welfare reform law which gave states option to use =
"personal
responsibility plans", remember the title of that law "The Personal
Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act" suggested that under=20
AFDC poor women who received cash benefits were in that position because
they had been irresponsible.
Generally, poor people are not irresponsible people or irresponsible =
parents
(at least no more so than people in other socio-economic categories), =
they
are people who may have some difficulty providing all the things =
children
need (money, attention, and supervision, and emotional support), because
living in poverty can be stressful, depressing and distracting.
This, of course, does not discount or contradict Jeremy's point about =
how we
have traditionally divided gender roles in our society. Women have had =
to be
responsible for children in all socio-economic categories, we must be
mindful of that reality. Most of us are not interested in supporting or
duplicating the traditional model. How do we support people (men and =
women)
educate those who need it as to their human rights (not necessarily =
parental
rights) and responsibilities, and then not make outside judgments as to
their parenting. On a personal note, this has been the most difficult =
part
of my work as a feminist who is a family policy advocate for both poor =
women
and men. From the perspective of a woman, it seems that if she is
economically secure, and safe from violence, she is in the best position =
to
judge his responsibility as a parent.(?) Perhaps this is a question, and =
not
the answer.
I think this part of the discussion illuminates the crux of the matter.=20
How do we advocate for poor men (and in most fatherhood groups they are =
poor
men of color) in a society where women and children have suffered in, =
and
been hurt by individual men and by the patriarchal structure? This is, =
of
course, complicated by the fact that men of color have been oppressed by
this same societal structure.
Jacquelyn Boggess
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 21:18:49 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:18:49 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] What about rape? (from Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <000601c33771$8bb5de90$d80a510c@jimmy88>
This discussion has been both interesting and frustrating so far...
When the violence against women focus narrows to DV, and BIPs are =
considered
"prevention" (they're intervention, not truly prevention -- come on, =
it's in
the NAME!) -- I believe we lose sight of a tremendous opportunity for
fatherhood programs to help men redefine masculinity, the way they =
interact
with their children, and the messages they send sons and daughters.
This would go far to begin dismantling the cultural system that supports
violence against women -- both rape and domestic violence.
Fathers can -- and should! -- do so much more than simply not batter =
their
wives/partners. They can send healthy messages about sexuality, they =
can
protect their children from sexual abuse, they can model egalitarian
relationships and shared power, they can demonstrate respect for the =
women
and girls in their lives.
Were there a local chapter of Dads And Daughters in Madison, I would =
jump at
the chance for the Rape Crisis Center to partner with them to reach
fatherhood programs with a whole new message... being a "responsible
father" means working to create a world worthy of your child's future.
Kelly Anderson
Madison, WI
RCCDirector@tds.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 21:23:47 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:23:47 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Setting the standard (from Susan Farris)
Message-ID: <000701c33772$3d6a4540$d80a510c@jimmy88>
I would agree that much of the media hype about fatherhood does not send =
the
message that fathers can or should be able to provide care for their
children. I am disappointed as well with the commercial about the 24 =
hour
sale(although I think it is JC Penny's not Sears). However, I have also
seen "father's rights" organization posters that only show the father
playing with the child. This seems to send the message that all it =
takes to
be a good father is to play with your child. I would think that both of
these messages would be alarming to fathers. Fatherhood is about many =
more
things than just babysitting, playing and entertaining children. =20
I have worked with batterers for over 5 years and when we discuss the
effects of their violence on their children, some men will become very
accountable and concerned about repairing the damage. This part of the
curriculum can be very moving for them as they recall the effects on
themselves as well. I have even heard some of the group participants =
talk
about how hard it is to be a coach now that they know something =
different
because of the way some coaches demean the young men by labeling them as
sissy, acting like a girl, etc. The only way these things can change is =
for
all men (as well as women) to look at how society is responsible for the
continuum of violence against women and it is up to all of us to attempt =
to
end it. Collaborations, destroying walls and building alliances are the
best way to become unified in this effort.=20
=20
Susan Farris LMSW
Family Crisis Center
Bastrop, TX
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 20 23:52:49 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:52:49 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Responsible Fatherhood Programs (from Dianne Hampton)
Message-ID: <001c01c33787$0f0d5330$d80a510c@jimmy88>
Many programs that promote "responsible fatherhood development" revolve
around the child's well-being. Given their limited resources, many of =
these
programs attempt to incorporate a wide-range of strategies, reflecting =
the
multiple domains of fathering which goes far beyond "biological =
fathering"
and provide the types of service delivery and collaborative case =
management
which influences the personal, relationships and environmental factors =
that
impact the ability of men to be self-sufficient and responsible to their
children, partners, families and communities.=20
Responsible fatherhood development programs at a minimum should focus on =
the
safety, emotional, and developmental well being of children; encourage
fathers to become financially and emotionally responsible to their =
children;
improve familial, parental and community partnerships; provide =
opportunities
for fathers to learn from positive role models and peer support; educate =
on
the importance and effectiveness of healthy and balanced parenting as a
team; encourage fathers to establish paternity; work to secure jobs with
wage growth potential and career development; provide assistance with
education, employment, economic barriers and community systems; measure
program outcomes; provide opportunities for staff development and =
training;
and have at least a policy and procedure for addressing issues and =
referrals
for domestic violence. Many of the low or no-income fathers, who =
volunteer
to attend these programs, face challenges around health and mental =
health,
education, trust, shame, employment, etc. They express their desire to
become more involved with their children just as the mothers have
articulated in the focus groups conducted by the Family Violence =
Prevention
Fund that Juan references in his FAVP initiative. =20
This weeks discussion further challenges our communities to shift the
paradigm of the traditional response to domestic violence from an
intervention and criminal perspective to find innovative prevention and
intervention strategies through fostering the cross-fertilization of
community-based programs and resources that strengthens the fathers and
mothers in ways they need to nurture and enrich the lives of their =
children.
Our children are the "common ground." =20
Dianne Hampton
NPCL
Washington, DC
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 23 14:22:37 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:22:37 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] On the relationship between fatherhood and masculinity/manhood (from Rich Newman)
Message-ID: <001501c33992$e62bbb60$9502510c@jimmy88>
Kelly Anderson wrote:
"When the violence against women focus narrows to DV=3D85I believe we =
=3D
lose sight of a tremendous opportunity for fatherhood programs to help =
men
redefine masculinity...."
And Jacquelyn Boggess wrote:
"How do we advocate for poor men (and in most fatherhood groups they are
poor men of color) in a society where women and children have suffered =
in,
and been hurt by individual men and by the patriarchal structure?"
In 1995, David Blankenhorn wrote a book--the argument of which I want to
make clear up front that I do not support--called "Fatherless America:
Confronting Our Most Urgent Social Problem." An unapologetic polemic in
favor of traditional fatherhood and masculinity, with slight revisions =
to
account for changes in social attitudes towards women's place role in
society, the book defines Blankenhorn's version of responsible
fatherhood--"the man who puts his family first" (5)--as the apotheosis =
of
masculinity. The only way to be a "real man," according to him, is to be =
a
good father and the only way a society will turn men--who "do not =
volunteer
for fatherhood as much as they are conscripted into it by the =
surrounding
culture"--is to have "an authoritative cultural story of fatherhood =
[that]
fuse[s] biological and social paternity into a coherent male identity." =
(3)
I will say not more about the book itself except that, for Blankenhor, =
this
identity can pretty much be summed up as
provider-protector-more-or-less-ruler-of-the-household.
I read the book for a project I was working on and found the experience
frustrating and infuriating, for while I disagreed not only with his
ideological stance, but also with almost every one of his conclusions, I
realized that as long as I used his vocabulary--meaning that as long as =
what
I was trying to do was argue with him about a vision of masculinity that
included a different vision of fatherhood--I would find it difficult to
create an alternative vision of masculinity/manhood that was as coherent =
as
his, and I realized as well that this inability would be for him =
evidence
that he was right: He attributes the problem of male violence, among =
others,
and for example, to the collapse of the traditional fatherhood narrative =
and
the absence of anything as compelling or coherent to take its place. To =
put
it plainly: I needed and didn't have a vocabulary for talking about what =
it
meant for men to help conceive and parent children that did not at the =
same
time refer and in some way validate the traditional values I was trying =
to
argue against.
My point: If fatherhood and motherhood are no longer, respectively, the
ultimate expressions of masculine and feminine gender identities--as I =
think
we would all probably agree they are not--then what are they? If they =
are
merely words for the activities that men and women engage in when they
parent children, and the frames of mind they bring to those activities, =
and
if those activities are no longer sex-role segregated, then why use =
terms
that imply sex-role segregation? I think that Kelly Anderson is right: =
any
discussion of what it means for men to help conceive and parent children
that does not include a serious redefinition of what it means to be a =
man is
an impoverished one by definition. That this discussion may not be of
immediate use to people who are working right now with men who are =
invested
in traditional roles to try to get those men to be responsible fathers =
does
not mean the question should not be addressed.
Rich Newman
newmanr@ncc.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 23 16:58:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:58:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion #3--An invitation to participate and some questions to consider (from Karen Andrews)
Message-ID: <002e01c339a8$ae853400$9502510c@jimmy88>
In response to question # 1.. "When working with men who have histories =
of
being abusive to help them have better relationships with their =
children,
how do we continue to prioritize the safety of battered women?"
In my experience men who abuse their partners are only willing to engage =
in
counseling/treatment if there is some kind of commitment to either =
remaining
involved or entering into joint counseling/treatment from their partner. =
As
a means of assessing sincerity I give women an accountability list that
gives them guidelines for how tell if their partner is truly taking
responsibility for his=20
violence. It was written by Barbara Hart of the Pennsylvania Coalition=20
Against Domestic Violence, and is as follows:
"A man who has battered a woman becomes accountable when:
He has acknowledged to the battered woman and to their community of=20
friends and family that he has assaulted and controlled a woman, and=20
that he has committed acts of violence against her;
He has admitted the pattern of abusive control which tyrannized her;
He has admitted that his behavior was unprovoked and inexcusable;
He knows his behavior was criminal
He understands that his behavior was not caused by stress, chemical=20
dependency or any other outside factor;
He knows he was not out of control;
He admits that he intended to control or punish her;
He deeply regrets his actions;
He recognizes the pain and suffering he inflicted on her;
He accepts full responsibility for his acts;
He acknowledges this without expectations of approval from her;
He understands he is not entitled to her forgiveness;
He recognizes that the woman may never trust him again and may remain=20
afraid of him forever;
He can enumerate the losses suffered by her and her family;
He does not expect protection of his name;
He realizes he needs the help of his family, his friends, and his=20
community to prevent further use of violence;
He knows he needs to find others to support him in non-violence;
He knows clearly there is nothing in the relationship with the woman=20
that caused his battery;
He knows that he is at risk of battering other women in the future;
And he realizes that the battered woman should not have to hear any of=20
these points from him unless she desires it;
In addition, if the battered woman has left him:
He agrees to limit contact with her, her friends, and family;
He agrees to stop chasing and tracking her;
He agrees to avoid the places she frequents, and to provide her with=20
plenty of space away from him;
He agrees to stop collecting information about her;
He understands the need to pay restitution, which could mean child=20
support and maintenance/alimony, and agrees to support her in this=20
restitution for as long as she needs it, to replace the losses she has=20
sustained;
And finally, he refuses to manipulate their children to discredit her.
When you as a man who has battered a woman can do all of the above, then =
and only then are you accountable to the woman you have battered, to=20
battered women as a group, and to yourself."
[me again!] I've been told this is very tough, but I think it has to be=20
tough to acknowledge the seriousness of violence against women and the=20
devastation it causes. It also covers all the ways in which=20
perpetrators continue to try to manipulate and control even when they=20
are supposedly working on this. It will keep us honest as we look at=20
parenting issues with perpetrators. Anything less also sends a message=20
to kids that perpetrators get away with abusive behavior.
Karen Andrews
Mount Vernon, WA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 23 17:28:59 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:28:59 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] redefining masculinity (from Jaime Gallardo)
Message-ID: <003001c339ac$ef44d690$9502510c@jimmy88>
Rich Newman wrote:=20
"I think that Kelly Anderson is right: any discussion of what it means =
for
men to help conceive and parent children that does not include a serious
redefinition of what it means to be a man is an impoverished one by
definition."
I worked with a Latino fathers group in Seattle, as part of a parenting
project in a largely immigrant community. As I worked with the fathers I
found that most of that work involved redefining what it means to be a =
man.
Whether they were good fathers or bad fathers was not the issue. The =
bulk of
their distress was buried in their definition of what it was to me a =
man.
This raised issues around: (1) showing your feelings, intimacy, to =
endure
pain(2)isolation (going it alone (3) competition (4) working till you
dropped dead (not caring about your health), among others.=20
>From the moment a male child is born they are set up for this kind of
oppression. So as men we are conditioned to not show our feelings, to go =
it
alone, work till we drop and so when we want to feel loved, get close, =
we
are trapped and so we are drawn to isolation patterns--addiction,
pornography.
So once they began to deal with issues of masculinity, they could solve =
the
issues that blocked them to be better fathers --closeness, staying
connected, loving and playing with their children, for example.
Peace,
Jaime Gallardo
San Jose, CA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jun 23 18:49:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:49:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: some questions to consider (from Dave Mathews)
Message-ID: <001501c339b8$20a7f630$9502510c@jimmy88>
I think what Ms Andrews has shared here is extremely valuable. These =
ideas
for men to work on as developed by the PCADV are wonderful specific
reminders about the work needed to be done by these men and how =
extensive it
must be.
I would add a couple thoughts to these. First, while this list of =
specific
things for the man to do is pretty complete it is directed more at what =
he
must do to be accountable to ... whom? Yes the formerly battered woman =
and
other battered women. It only implies that he should be accountable to =
the
rest of the community. If we do not make the connection that he is also
responsible to the community we continue to place the victim/ survivors =
in a
potentially difficult situation. Having him accountable to the community
means more than going to jail, it means that he better understands the
impact of his behaviors not only on those who were directly abused but =
also
how others in his community were affected and what he can do to repair =
some
of the harm to the community or community members.
Essentially, acts of violence break relationships. Within the family =
these
behaviors break the relationships between partners but also between the
parent and the children. Part of the accountability process for fathers =
who
are batterers needs to be processes that clearly make certain they
understand what lines they have crossed and how it has affected other
immediate family members. Additionally, it is important to have them use
processes that assist them in knowing how to be accountable for these
behaviors among other family members and community members. I have found
that batterers who are fathers will actively work towards restoring =
their
relationships in an appropriate and safe manner with their children if =
they
have a fairly concrete understanding of how to do this.
Again, the list Ms Andrews presents is a good start but falls short of
providing specific processes for restoring the relationships with their
children. Further it has the man identify these things to stop doing or =
do
something else and has little to do with understanding the community =
effects
or understanding how to restore and begin to repair the impact his =
behaviors
have had on the community. After all this issue of domestic violence is =
not
only a women's issue. We as a community must own it and figure out ways =
to
build into our systems (formal, informal, cultural) ways to truly hold =
him
accountable. I believe simply putting this responsibility on the court
systems (although obviously they have a role) allows batterers to escape
increased measures of accountability.
Finally, I have been in meetings where the words have been uttered, "Men
don't seek help unless they are court ordered or pressured by their
partners, and more so the former." I would hope that as professionals
working with these men, regardless of their initial motivation we at =
least
allow ourselves to understand why this might be the case. More =
importantly
though, we need to reflect on where this statement comes from. When I =
hear
it stated I have nodded vigorously in agreement, then feel my gut twinge =
and
my self talk go, "So Dave, how well have you been communicating the =
message
to men and fathers that 1) it's okay to ask for help 2) they're not =
alone 3)
there are resources they can access?" I guess what I am saying is that I
believe I have to examine whether making this statement adds to =
solutions or
just closes down discussion and minimizes creativity for ending =
violence.
Dave Mathews, DAP
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jun 24 15:23:34 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:23:34 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Putting our sacredness at the Center of our work (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <001401c33a64$94793d60$447d510c@jimmy88>
I would like to thank the authors of the Fatherhood paper and all others =
who
have reminded us to place sacredness at the center of this work and at =
the
center of the circle - however we define it. At a minimum I assume that =
we
all affirm the sacredness of life in standing up against violence and =
harm,
whatever word we use. I feel that in the dominant culture most of us =
have
lost sight of how to talk about spirituality and do our work at the same
time. Personally I feel that I am expected to closet this part of =
myself
all too often in the contexts that I work in and unfortunately I often
acquiesce. But if I make myself less whole by doing this how can I
contribute to other men's healing from their own fragmentation? Many of =
the
contributors to this list - particularly people of color - have pointed =
out
that to do our work we can't loose sight of this sacred dimension and =
its
powerful healing and organizing potential. Creating a "big tent" might
include defining the sacred in an inclusive enough way that we can bring =
it
into our work and our discussions without requiring that we take a stand =
on
what it means to us individually. Thanks again to all of you who are
modeling for the rest of us how to do this.
Alan Berkowitz
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jun 24 17:46:13 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:46:13 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Putting our sacredness at the Center of our work (from Stacy Rodgers)
Message-ID: <003501c33a78$8251eec0$447d510c@jimmy88>
Re: posting from Alan Berkowitz=20
Well said. I think looking at the under girding of the AA and NA models
where there is an acknowledgement of a higher power has consistently =
been
successful. Also the significant research that is becoming available on =
the
role of faith in medical and emotional recovery supports this notion. =
Being
a person of faith I, too, often recognize the tenuous position that we =
are
often faced with in trying to help families heal without the aid of the =
role
that faith and belief in a higher power plays. When individuals ask =
you,
how did you "recover" or overcome your adversities in life, our own
testimonies reflect the role that strong faith and belief plays. For =
many
of us there is no way to "tell our story"/reflect upon our valley
experiences without articulating our faith. =20
I am happy to say that in twenty years of working with at-risk families,
(mothers, fathers and children) I, too, can attest to the role that =
faith
plays in the road to recovery and reconciliation. =20
Thanks for your candid discussion. It is greatly appreciated.
Stacy Rodgers
Baltimore MD =20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jun 24 22:29:02 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:29:02 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Putting our sacredness at the Center of our work (from Mark Brown)
Message-ID: <000201c33aa0$04628650$f955510c@jimmy88>
I am someone of a quite personal and mostly private faith, a father and =
a
rape crisis center worker. Though I rely greatly on my own sense of
sacredness to do my job, help others and deal with the things I see, I =
often
feel marginalized by the confident and outspoken statements of my =
coworkers
who all share a common religious belief.
I'm very encouraged by the idea of defining faith/sacredness in an open
enough sense to fit within a "big tent" approach. I hope that this idea =
can
spread so that even those who believe in a faith that is in the majority
will speak in a way that allows for/accepts a different experience of
sacredness.
As for the father role: I believe many aspects of traditional =
fatherhood
can and should be preserved, but they should be stripped of qualities of
dominance and male exclusivity. To act as a protector of those who =
cannot
protect themselves is admirable. However, this is not an ability or
responsibility exclusively of men. Also, men must be careful that they =
do
not assume someone is helpless/need to be protected simply because of =
that
individuals role in traditional society (i.e. woman, child, minority, =
etc.).
Also, protection must have as it's goal empowerment. One acts to =
prevent
immediate danger, then empower the individual with the skills necessary =
to
protect her or himself in the future.
I'm not sure if any of this is clear, or if anyone agrees. However, I =
do
feel strongly that we must begin by reexamining and redefining =
traditional
male roles, taking the good, dropping the bad and recognizing that these
roles do not belong to men alone. Also, we must incorporate roles
traditionally reserved for women such as nurturer, communicator etc...
I feel that if we maintain our center as the sacredness of life and =
active
nonviolence through the creation of peace, if remain constant to this
concept and manifest these qualities daily, the redefinition and =
recreation
of manhood/fatherhood will progress naturally and last.
Anyway, I'm interested in any feedback.
Mark Brown
Sexual Trauma & Counseling Center
Greenwood, SC
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jun 24 22:32:14 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:32:14 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] How militarism affects our cultural ideas about masculinity and fatherhood (from Sandy Mitchell)
Message-ID: <000301c33aa0$76cb28f0$f955510c@jimmy88>
I'm really appreciating all the thoughtful postings about the issue of =
DV
and fatherhood, I've been doing DV treatment groups for men for 12 years
now, and the longer I do this work, the more I believe that addressing
parenting issues is a huge need for our whole culture, and certainly for =
men
who've committed acts of DV and have children.
Many of you have spoken to the need for men to be accountable for the =
effect
their acts of violence have had on their children, and to other relevant
issues relating to fatherhood and masculine identity as well. I agree
completely with those sentiments. Now I think it's time for us to look =
at
one of the ways we learn as men to endorse violence.
I want to suggest that there's an aspect of how male identity is formed =
in
our culture that hasn't been brought up as yet (unless I've missed a
posting).=20
What I'm speaking of is how our cultural ideas of masculinity are tied =
to
militarism; which I think is a MAJOR contributor to our cultural =
acceptance
of violence generally - and to DV as one of the forms of violence our
culture suffers from.
I believe I live in a culture that celebrates militarism and violence. =
Not a
day goes by that my daily papers don't have at least one prominent photo =
of
the cultural icon/archetype that I've come to think of as the "Brave
American Soldier/Hero/Liberator and his Faithful, Trusty Weapons." We =
are
inundated with cultural messages that celebrate violence, so long as =
it's
being done to 'unworthy victims;' who just happen to be: anyone we don't
like.
I've been around since the Sixties, so I've seen our country cycle =
through
many, many 'cycles of violence' directed at supposed or created enemies;
from Vietnam through Iraq. I've seen how, in each historic event of =
military
adventurism our country engages in, we're assaulted repeatedly through =
all
the cultural media with ideas of our military always being the good =
guys,
depicted always only as liberators, etc.
Each time the bombs start dropping, I ask myself the same question: =
"Lets
see, now - I'm supposed to try to teach these guys to abhor violence =
done in
the home - but the culture is teaching them that when they turn on the =
news
and hear we're bombing the hell out of some 3rd world country (again),
they're supposed to cheer. How do I make this work?"
Being a man, by conventional U.S. standards, seems to have an awful lot =
to
do with believing whole-heartedly that violence is a perfectly =
acceptable,
indeed, a 'manly' way to solve conflicts. This has been modeled for us =
by
every U.S. administration in my memory. Sons grow up fed a diet of =
military
manliness, in every generation, and the only general cultural agreement =
we
have about violence seems to be: "Violence is bad when it happens to ME. =
If
it happens to you - well, that depends on whether I think you're a =
'worthy
victim' (someone I like) or an 'unworthy victim.'
I don't see much evidence that we're confronting this pernicious model =
of
manhood in the DV treatment field. If I'm wrong about this, I hope =
you'll
point out where this is happening. I'd love to talk to folks who think =
this
is something we need to deal with.
Peace,
Sandy Mitchell, DV Therapist
Highline/W. Seattle MHC
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 16:12:53 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:12:53 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: sacredness from Mark Brown (from Shannon E. Smith)
Message-ID: <000a01c33b34$a2af9520$fe70510c@jimmy88>
As another with non-traditional and private spiritual beliefs, I =
appreciate
Mark Brown's words. I, too, often feel marginalized by those around me =
who
share a common belief and feel compelled to vocalize their beliefs.
I think that our sacredness and spirituality are certainly at the core =
of
who we each are as humans and need to be addressed, especially in the
healing process. But, an openness to the nuances and differences in =
each
person's beliefs must exist for true healing to occur. If one is made =
to
feel that her/his experience is not valid because her/his beliefs aren't
those of the majority, she/he will feel flawed and unaccepted.
I also share in the belief that our traditional gender roles and =
stereotypes
need to be left behind, while we all adopt more positive, peaceful, and
nurturing behavior.
Truth be told, I think that if all of us spoke up, we'd probably find =
that
we're not as much in the minority as many would like us to believe.
Peace.
Shannon E. Smith
Community Educator
Sexual Assault Crisis & Resource Center
Chattanooga, TN
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 18:36:48 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:36:48 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: sacredness, fatherhood and militarism (from Laura Cooley)
Message-ID: <001301c33b48$bd8cef00$fe70510c@jimmy88>
Really appreciate last several postings on sacredness, father hood and
militarism and see these 3 topics as intertwined heavily with each =
other.
It does not appear to me that the full value of understanding the
consequences of violent actions on children is utilized, as this is a
powerfully motivating behavior, perhaps even the most motivating factor.
Same goes for sacredness. As a newcomer to this field, I am disappointed =
in
the lack of integration regarding sacredness, which should not surprise =
me,
given its role in American life. The work seems inordinately difficult
without it. And for myself, it includes any definition that someone I am
working with has of it. I have no wish to define it for others and find
helping those to elucidate what it is for them most fascinating and =
useful
to the process of changing behavior. Eliciting what is sacred to group
members is an excellent opportunity to address tolerance, feeling
threatened, learning the skills necessary for accepting others as well =
as
self. I have found no group, no matter how hindered by mental illness,
dysfunctional behavior, etc, not willing to engage in this dialogue. =
Hope
our dialogue continues.
Regarding militarism, I want to relate remarks made recently at a sexual
assault training in Vermont. An attendee, who is an employee of =
Dartmouth
College, stated that the rape rates on campus rose significantly when we
attacked Afghanistan and invaded Iraq, as reported by three different
entities within Dartmouth. I am wondering if anyone else has tracked =
such
rises, or has noticed anything of that sort.
I most definitely think it is something we need to deal with, as our =
culture
is largely devoid of awareness about its indulgence of violence. To =
quote
Sandra Bloom "ours is a culture organized around violence."=20
(Bloom, S, Creating Sanctuary, an Evolution Towards Sane Communities, =
1997
Routledge)
'On Killing, the psychological costs of learning to kill in war and =
society'
by Lt Col Dave Grossman is an incredibly informative book on the nature =
of
killing and the consequences of teaching how to kill and violence in our
world, which is on the rise in multitudes of countries that keep =
records.
(Grossman, D , On Killing, the Psychological Costs of Learning to Kill =
in
War and Society, 1995, 1996, Little, Brown and company).
Understanding the consequences of violent behavior on your children, =
violent
behavior of our military and leaders and living unconnected to a sense =
of
sacredness appear to me to be most crucial to our work. Placing men's
violent behavior in the context not just of our culture, but of our
culture's militaristic and historical violent behavior seems crucial to
orienting men to the world they are living in. "You can't get to where =
you
want to go without knowing first where you are" seems applicable. It =
seems
hard to challenge their beliefs and to educate them about "society's"
endorsement of violence without the historical perspective of our =
culture's
military behavior and the consequences.
I do believe we have our work cut out for us........ acknowledging
consequences does not seem to be desirable activity.
Laura Cooley
BIP facilitator as 2 weeks ago
Here's to hoping that we all keep the faith.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 18:45:44 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:45:44 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] spirituality (from Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <000001c33b49$fcc81bd0$fe70510c@jimmy88>
There's an important distinction to be made between us holding our own
spirituality (in whatever form) as something that brings us sustenance =
and
proselytizing through our work.
Being the professional and the "helper" imbues those of us in this field
with a certain level of power, and it's essential that we not imply to =
our
clients that what worked for us is "The Way" -- even if (particularly =
if) we
happen to believe that it is.
>From an empowerment perspective, the appropriate answer to the question
"What worked for you?" (the professional) is: What worked for me worked =
for
me; let's talk about what will work for *you* -- with your individual
beliefs, experiences and cultural background.
The comment about the NA and AA models working well is one example -- =
those
models, with God in the center, work fine for some people -- and not at =
all
for others. (In particular, 12-step programs can be very damaging to
survivors or child sexual abuse; the "taking responsibility" step needs =
to
adapt to the sense of guilt and shame they're often holding over =
something
that WASN'T their responsibility)
Being honest about our identity in the workplace is important -- as is
respecting the beliefs and *differences* of those we work with -- both
colleagues and clients.
Kelly Anderson
Madison, WI USA
rccdirector@tds.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 18:48:55 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:48:55 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] more on spirituality (from Valerie L'Herrou)
Message-ID: <000101c33b4a$6e7de930$fe70510c@jimmy88>
And also weighing in...
as someone who finds that many programs for helping people seem to be
either faith-based or that the motivation for some of the people to be
involved is their religion, I would hate to see an emphasis on this for =
the
very marginalization that you folks are attesting to. I'd hate for there =
to
be nowhere for people to go if they were not comfortable with religious
language, or to feel guilty that they were mouthing words that they did =
not
mean.
I find language such as "acknowledging a higher power" very alienating.=20
I know that people think that's more inclusive than "believing in god" =
but
to me it's no less an affront. And while I understand that their faith =
is
important in many aspects of many people's lives, I also think it should =
be
a private aspect--something that they can seek to affirm in their own
religious communities as they see fit, not a prerequisite for =
participating
in a program.
And, I know you're all going to say "it's not a prerequisite!" but, if =
you
are one of a few abstaining from participating in the religious aspects =
of a
group, that's where the discomfort and alienation come in. A person =
cannot
wholeheartedly participate -- must either detach or feel like a =
hypocrite.
Also, while I know that many people have good intentions about not =
stressing
christianity, again--someone can be strongly spiritual but come from a
different tradition where it can feel that practices based on christian
traditions marginalize their own faith.
So, I would really hate to see spirituality-based programs become too
prevalent, or to see this become too important or too emphasized in =
existing
programs. What I would like to see are programs that explain how =
different
religious teachings of various faiths don't have to be seen as enforcing
traditional gender roles (hard to do that in religions where women =
aren't
allowed to fully participate in all functions!)
Valerie
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 20:54:21 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:54:21 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Thank You to Kelly Anderson (from Liz Kinsworthy)
Message-ID: <000201c33b5b$f465f090$fe70510c@jimmy88>
I agree with what Kelly said and the reality is that many abusers use =
their
"spirituality" to impose themselves on their S.O's and to seduce yet =
another
listener into thinking they have reformed. As a survivor, I know for a
fact that the 12 step programs blame the DV victim and this is =
emphasized by
the "taking responsibility" language in their materials. I attended =
many an
Al Anon meeting while my ex went to AA (the only "social" event where I =
had
contact with others). At one point, during one more meeting where I
couldn't stop crying, a very wise woman came up afterwards and said, =
"honey
there is nothing here in this program that's going to help you-you need =
to
get out of your marriage". She ended up going to court with me when my =
ex
challenged the restraining order. 20
One AA phrase that gets laughed at and bandied around is "we don't have
relationships, we take hostages". My ex use to call me Patty =
(referencing
Herst) and openly said I was his hostage. I lived under 24/7 =
surveillance
and did not have the choice to eat or sleep unless he approved. After =
being
free for a year, I approached the Arizona 12 step offices to ask them to =
put
DV information in their meetings. No, they said. So I wrote a flyer =
about
my ex and spent a week putting them on the windshields of those =
attending 12
step meetings which he frequented (he was out of the state). Risky, =
yes,
but that meeting site then allowed a National Hotline poster to be =
posted.=20
Countless survivors around the nation report how their ex's used =
religious
writings, etc., to perpetrate and create a cover. I'm now inherently
suspicious of anyone who says they "Believe" anything. I think it's =
much
more reasonable for people to keep their beliefs to themselves and just
simply treat people reasonably well. My "spirit" was so damaged by the
torture, I, as a childhood raised Protestant, turned to the Catholic =
church
and asked for an exorcism. I ended up finding what I needed in the =
books,
"When Men Batter Women", "Trauma and Recovery", "The Betrayal Bond" and
"Telling The Truth", a book of sermons on DV and rape for ministers
(references below).=20
Actions/behaviors by batterers are what need to be measured and over an
extended period of time. My hope for all of you working with abusers
(people who have repeatedly and soberly inflicted torture on other human
beings) is that you not get fooled by what they purport to believe. I =
was
once a mental health therapist with an inherent belief in the potential
goodness in everyone-that was erased when I experienced first hand,
repeated, calculated emotional and physical torture. Some human beings =
are
too damaged to change - that is now one of my strongest beliefs and I
believe it's a necessary one if we are going to truly look out for the =
good
of the community.
Best regards,
Liz Kinsworthy, MC, RN, CS
Domestic Violence Healthcare/Community Educator
lkinsworthy@msn.com (Tucson, Arizona)
References
"When Men Batter Women", Neil Jacobson, PhD. & John Gottman, Ph.D., =
1998.=20
"Trauma and Recovery; the Aftermath of Violence--from Domestic Violence =
to
Political Terror", Judith Herman, MD, 1992=20
"The Betrayal Bond; Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships", Patrick
Carnes, Phd., 1997=20
"Telling The Truth; Preaching about Sexual and Domestic Violence", =
editor
John McClure and Nancy Ramsey, 1998, United Press Church.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 21:02:12 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:02:12 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: sacredness at the center of our work from Mark Brown (from Dave McIntire)
Message-ID: <000301c33b5d$0d798190$fe70510c@jimmy88>
In response to Mr. Brown's post, he said he wasn't sure if any of what =
he
was suggesting was clear. Very clear and articulate. Thanks!
I agree that much of the negative consequences of "men as the sole
protector/provider" is unintended and quite confusing to those men who =
are
earnestly trying to do good work with an "old school" mindset. They miss
that empowerment is the best outcome because, frankly, most of us were =
never
told what the outcome should be. Men are told to take up for women and
children and those who are in more imminent need but then never told why =
and
how to do so without doing more damage. Richard Foster talks about =
service
in Celebration of Discipline and has a whole list of the differences =
between
true service and self-righteous but in the end he says that true service
edifies both the giver and receiver while self-righteous service =
destroys
that relationship. (Chapter 9, Celebration of Discipline by Richard =
Foster,
2002. Harper San Francisco).
The key is educating men in the majority that their role is better =
served
walking beside rather than cutting the path. As a white, heterosexual,
educated, upper middle-class fella, cutting a path is the easier job.=20
Walking beside requires humility and knowledge that ultimately, its not =
my
"problem" to solve, its their life to live. As far as your concerns =
about
faith-I agree its a slippery road. My training and previous vocation was
ministry and I know from experience how a group can "take no prisoners" =
in
the name of faith. I do however keep coming back to the fact that when =
push
comes to shove, everyone thinks of themselves at some level as a =
spiritual
being. I've found it useful to use that in explaining the harm young men =
do
to women when they demean them at whatever level. Even if you take into
consideration literal versus allegory-the God in Genesis calls man and =
woman
"very good"-they were something of worth and value.=20
To demean that creation is unacceptable. I think its also important to
remember that in dealing with batters. The behavior should be condoned =
and
they should be held accountable-but at heart they are a "very good"
creation. I know other traditions don't use the Genesis story but I =
would
guess all of them affirm the "very goodness" of a human being in some
manner.
Hope mine makes sense.
Humbly,
Dave McIntire
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jun 25 22:22:12 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:22:12 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] focusing back on fathers (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000b01c33b68$3a6bd990$fe70510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet participants,=20
There are just over two days left for our current discussion "Building
Bridges between Responsible Fatherhood Programs and Programs Working to =
End
Men's Violence". Thank you to those who have contributed so far, and we
would like to encourage others to participate soon. =20
We are posing the following topics and questions to help guide the =
remainder
of our discussion. We feel the conversation has veered a bit from the
fatherhood conversation and would like to now move on. We would love to =
hear
more from those working with fathers about the potential and challenges =
in
your work.=20
1) Father involvement versus victim and child safety:
In his case study Juan Carlos Arean writes, "As with any intervention
involving abusive men, their partners and children, we are aware that =
there
are risks in implementing this project.Predictably, the number one
consideration has involved safeguarding the physical and emotional =
integrity
of the mother and the children". Given this, what program approaches are
those of you in batterer intervention programs using to reach men in =
their
capacity as fathers who have been violent? Do you, for instance, ask
questions about children's exposure to violence, the impact that this =
has
and how men are responding to this? Do you include activities on father
involvement and, if so, how do you balance the goals of victim and child
safety with the goals of promoting nurturing and loving relationships
between men who have battered and their children? For practitioners =
working
in fatherhood programs, how do you go about engaging men in discussions
about violence against women? Similarly, how do you promote the notion =
that
men have a unique role to play challenging men's violence against women? =
How
do men in fatherhood programs respond to these discussions?
2) Fatherhood and prevention - the positive potential=20
How can we reach out to more men in their roles as fathers? In the case
study on Dads and Daughters, Joe Kelly states "No man is at a more =
teachable
moment about gender justice than when he has a daughter". In other =
words,
men can be motivated to take a stand against domestic and sexual =
violence
out of concern for the safety and well being of their daughters (and for
other women in their lives). Recognizing this, how can we assist fathers =
to
build a world where their daughters don't face the ongoing threat of
violence and where they are not subjected to a barrage of dangerous =
messages
about body size? What are some of the ways we can expand our thinking =
about
the potential of fathers as partners in prevention efforts? Are we =
missing
opportunities to engage men as fathers in health care service provision, =
or
throughout the birth process, for example? Some research indicates that =
the
more time men spend taking care of children, the less likely they are to =
use
violence. What does this tell us about prevalent social norms and gender
stereotypes about "fatherhood", "motherhood" and "care giving"? =20
3) Teen fathers=20
Are there PEMVnet participants working with teen fathers, single =
parents, or
other groups of fathers that have been left out of this conversation so =
far?
For young men and teen fathers, are there specific issues that you'd =
like to
discuss? What type of services are being provided to young fathers that
address the intersection of violence and fatherhood? On the one hand, =
we
know that young parents are more vulnerable to relationship violence =
than
older adults but are there positive lessons about engaging young men in
their role as fathers?=20
We look forwards to the continued discussion,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 26 15:43:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:43:00 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Be, do, have in relationship to our work (from Rebecca Cline)
Message-ID: <001301c33bf9$a1c51890$4047510c@jimmy88>
The postings about militarism and the dichotomy between that and issues =
of
violence in the home as well as spirituality as the base for our work =
are
very thought provoking. I have listened to the conversation since the
beginning and now feel compelled to contribute. I'm going out on a limb
here.
As a social worker and member of my professional organization (National
Association of Social Workers) we say we are committed to peace and =
social
justice. This is evidenced by our National President's work for peace as
well as the work of thousands of social workers across the country who
express their commitment to peace through demonstrations and other =
means.
Interestingly, at a meeting of Ohio Chapter's peace and social justice
committee the Saturday after we went to war with Iraq, a significant =
portion
of the discussion was focused on "being" peaceful rather than "doing" =
peace
work. I think this may speak to the heart of Sandy's posting.
As humans we become doings rather than beings. We do what we do without
much focus or emphasis on who we "be" in our lives. This conversation =
can
also be mapped onto the "be, do, have," conversation that is central to =
many
spiritual and faith traditions. It is out of who I am being that has me
take actions that cause me to have the results I have in life. For =
example,
if I am being angry, hostile and controlling I may do things consistent =
with
who I am being. I my "do" domestic violence and abuse my partner. I may
then have the correlate result: a broken home and family.=20
Our focus has become that of human doing rather than of human being. We =
do,
do, do, do, do until we drop. We work really hard, we earn money to =
support
our families, we take arms against third world countries to "do" what =
our
country requests. We do these things without finding our commitment to =
who
we are for the world. This conversation, for the most part, is =
completely
missing in our education and institutions. That is, the conversation =
about,
"Who are we being in the matter of our lives?"
What if the "Big tent" were held up by a Center Pole called =
spirituality?=20
What if this discussion about fatherhood and working against VAW became
about transforming our relationships to ourselves and to others? What =
if we
shifted our conversations away from what we "do" in life to who we are =
being
in life and what we are committed to (creating a world that works, =
people
having lives they love, creating loving relationships in which people
thrive, to name a few such commitments)?=20
I think if we could get to the heart of what people are committed to we
would find that most batterers are not committed to battering their
partners. We would find that underneath the pretenses of what our =
culture
prescribes for men and women, there are people hiding from their own
spirits, their own being. Under the "Big Tent" it is my commitment to =
bring
the conversation of empowerment of humans such that the doing of our =
lives
is the natural expression of who we are being in our lives. I assert =
that
a substantial contextual shift from doing to being could impact every =
aspect
of our work as well as impact the effectiveness of BI and fatherhood
programs, not to mention the delivery of all social services.
Rebecca Cline, LISW
Ohio Domestic Violence Network
DELTA Project Coordinator
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 26 15:46:54 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:46:54 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: focusing back on fathers (from Patrick Diggs)
Message-ID: <001401c33bfa$2bede6a0$4047510c@jimmy88>
We have a program here in Florida that works to integrate dad into every
aspect of their child's development, pre and postnatal. Our program is =
a
voluntary home visitation program that covers career counseling, =
fatherhood
pantry, support group, speakers bureau, developmental play groups, =
community
involvement activities, and court advocacy. Each dad is required to =
attend
prenatal and well baby visits. They are also encouraged to bring their
child(ren) to group activities. One of our program's measurable =
objectives
measures (pre & post) the amount of time spent with their children.
Although we don't have post program follow up measures in place, I can't
think of one participant who displayed violence while active in our =
program.
The very first activity for fathers after enrolling in our program is =
the
"child first" session. We invite the mother(s) (separately if more than
one) in to have the father re-state or state his intentions to become =
more
involved in his child's life ( we found that this alleviates suspicion =
by
MOB that FOB has ulterior motives).=20
We have a zero tolerance rule for domestic violence or any violence =
against
children. We don't have a structured DV or anti-violence curriculum. =
We
strongly believe that a strong healthy relationship with one's children
simply doesn't allow a manifestation of violence.
Patrick Diggs
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 26 15:53:16 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:53:16 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Faith, socialization, warriors (from Roger Niesen)
Message-ID: <002401c33bfb$0f99beb0$4047510c@jimmy88>
So many excellent postings! Thanks everyone.
Faith: I think that trauma (especially through childhood) often sets a
person's emotional makeup towards insecurity and fear. This is basically =
a
feeling/ belief/ expectation that things will not be all right. With =
this
perspective individuals tend to react to circumstances with a flight/
freeze/ fight response. They may withdraw into depression, drugs, =
isolation,
etc. They may "lock up" or "get stuck" doing nothing. They may try to
intimidate others to get what they feel they need, to try to control
situations through conflict, or engage in adversarial behavior to =
achieve
status. These individuals may find faith can allay this insecurity, by
replacing or reducing their belief that things will be bad with a =
feeling/
expectation/ belief that (despite prior experience) things will be all
right. Approaching situations with this perspective leads to more
constructive, cooperative responses. Therefore, it is important to
encourage/ empower people to develop and draw on their faith, whatever =
that
may be. Some may not have any, and that also must be respected. We can =
do
this without "pushing" our own spiritual beliefs on the person. I think =
this
perspective is very important in working on both patterns of abuse and
patterns of parenting.
Socialization of men: Some have referred to problems in the way men are
socialized, and are suggesting ways that men can change their own
perceptions, their interactions with peers, and their influence on =
children
to provide a more positive, cooperative, and prosocial model. That is a =
good
idea. Men are not the only ones influencing/ socializing boys into men.
Women have an important role, also. We must also (under the big tent)
explore how women contribute to/in this culture in defining gender roles =
for
men. What do they express as expectations for men? What expectations do =
they
act out? Are these two consistent? Are the expectations consistent with =
each
other, or mixed, or conflicting? What do women say about men in front of
children? What do women say to men (and how) in front of children? What
media images of men do women look at/present in the household? The point =
is:
what do boys and girls learn about what being a man is about from the =
women
in their lives? We are all responsible for our behavior, and responsible =
for
teaching behavior. This is not simply a men's question.
War/ warriors: I ask people to respect history and recognize that =
through
the ages the traditional male role of warrior/protector has been =
essential
to the survival of "tribes"/ families/ nations. While we continue to =
hope
and work toward a time when such a violent role is no longer needed, we
should not disrespect that role, nor the effect that role has had on men =
and
the position it has put them in. It think it has been the tradition =
among
some native peoples that the man walks ahead of the woman. This custom =
may
be viewed in contemporary society as representing male dominance and
patriarchy. My understanding is that it originated in days when the =
world
was more dangerous, and that the survival and future of a people =
depended on
the safety of the women and children. The men walked in front in =
awareness
that in event of danger they (men) are expendable. The last 50 or so =
years
of relative security in the United States have led us to discount this =
role,
but we must be aware of its history and influence on our culture, our
biology, and our gender norms as we seek to change them.=20
-Roger Niesen
Child Care Worker, The Spurwink School
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 26 15:56:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:56:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] focusing back on fathers-responding to point 2 (from Dave Mathews)
Message-ID: <002501c33bfb$7a6f4b10$4047510c@jimmy88>
On a personal note I agree that once I had a daughter I tended to pay a =
lot
more attention to what she was exposed to in her life. We were able to =
keep
her from Saturday morning cartoons for the first 7 years of her life. =
Not
that cartoons are intrinsically evil however I think we all understand =
the
reinforcement of violence and the support of some pretty questionable =
values
that come from viewing the shows and ads that go along with them. We =
were
able to steer her toward other activities and select videos that =
enforced
more of our values or at least seemed less overall damaging. I have not =
been
increasingly successful as she grows older however to continue this =
process
of surrounding her with what I want her to be learning or shelter her =
from
these negative and sometimes very damaging messages. She is now 14 going =
on
18 and quite independent. I am proud of her accomplishments and who she =
is
developing into as a young woman. I periodically observe and often =
relieved
that she does carry those initial values that her mom and I have exposed =
her
to.
I think this understanding of the effects of what their children are =
exposed
to relative to violence also catches many father's attention. This is =
one of
the doors I use to reach a man in the group.
Reality comes back to me in the form of my own words when I am working =
with
fathers or any parent for that matter; "From day one parenting is a long
term process of loss." It is part of the art of parenting to understand =
how
to move through this process. We as fathers are often told to be =
responsible
FOR our families and our children. This sends a message that somehow we
should control them, and therefore use whatever at our disposal to do =
so.
One of the major points I try to help fathers who are batterers =
understand
is the necessity to change the preposition from FOR to TO. We are
responsible TO our families and our children. This little change forces =
us
to confront the fact that we cannot and should not try to control these
family members. For some men this offers temporary relief. When they =
truly
begin to explore the change it gets more complex (not complicated). =
Letting
go of "father privilege" that the FOR maintains for us, and =
understanding
our own parenting culture can appear to be overwhelming as we stand at =
the
foot of these mountains.
It is for these reasons and many more that I am involved in our Men's
Messages Action Team which is a part of the Initiatives for Violence =
Free
Families and Communities in Ramsey and Hennepin Counties. I would =
suggest
folks go back to the case study about the work from this group in the =
first
discussion.
The line for me is so thin when it comes to helping fathers who are
batterers, men who have not acted out toward their partners, and my =
personal
life. I think this is why I and many of us are so passionate about this.
Certainly I must maintain good boundaries and at the same time know that =
the
work I am participating in is going to have some direct positive effects =
for
my daughter in the long run. This connection truly does energize me to =
do
the work I do.=20
Now my twin 6 year old boys, well let me save that one for another =
posting.
Dave Mathews
DAP
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 26 17:01:07 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] re: focusing on father - point 2 (from La Wanza Lett-Brewington)
Message-ID: <003701c33c04$8a234990$4047510c@jimmy88>
One the areas that still needs to be worked on within the domestic =
violence
movement is meeting fathers (and men in general) where they are in their
learning process when they decide to work against violence against women =
and
children - particularly from those of us who consider ourselves as =
women's
advocates.=20
I say this because as a situation that has just taken place within the =
last
few days. My husband is attending a conference on teen dating violence =
this
week. He decided to attend this conference so that he would learn more
about the topic, but also so that he would be able to work with other =
men on
this topic. While attending the first workshop he encountered a =
facilitator
(a woman) that to him and at least two other men seemed to be saying =
that
men did not need to be and/or should not be involved in this work. Now, =
I
have been working in this field for over 10 years now and he knows that =
men
MUST BE involved in this work in order for the cycle of violence to =
stop,
but he (and I) wondered how he would take the same message if he was =
hearing
the contents of her presentation for the first time. Would he want to
continue working against domestic violence anywhere other than his =
immediate
community? Perhaps not. It did not help that he is a black man and the
facilitator is a white woman given the historical context of racism (the
myth of the black rapist), sexism (all men are sexist) and exclusionary
activism in the women's movement (black women were put in the position =
of
having to choose between standing up for their gender or their race).=20
As I said, fortunately, he knows better. He believes that as a father =
it is
his responsibility to work against all forms of violence against women,
children, and his community. He, like Dave Matthew's, awoke to the
prevalence of violence and sexism portrayed on tv soon after our =
daughter
was born and has worked diligently to protect her from it. But... he =
knows
that she will grow up and if the other fathers are not talking to their
daughters and sons about healthy relationships and what love really is, =
our
daughter will face the same world as we have today and that is not
acceptable.=20
When men come to the table to discuss domestic violence, we need to not
silence them with the rhetoric about how mean and evil men are - not all =
men
are that way. I'm not saying that we don't hold men accountable if they =
are
batterers or are making sexist comments, we have to hold all =
perpetrators of
domestic violence accountable for their actions. I'm saying that we can
work with them.
A father that is saying that he wants to actively work against violence
against women and all that this work encompasses is a man that we need =
to
recognize as being a part of the team.=20
La Wanza Lett-Brewington
Director of Community Education
Everywoman's Center
Amherst, MA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jun 26 22:30:15 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:30:15 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Fathers, Families and Workforce Development (from Johnny Rice)
Message-ID: <000501c33c32$84a3e230$4f0d510c@jimmy88>
The Center for Fathers, Families and Workforce Development is committed =
to
reducing the incidence/prevalence of family violence within the =
underserved
communities of Baltimore City. CFWD is a Responsible Fatherhood Program
(please note that the term 'Responsible' should be viewed as a category =
to
differentiate types of programs and is not meant to be viewed from a =
deficit
perspective) that provides an array of direct and referral services to =
men
and fathers (custodial and non-custodial). Parenting, life-skills =
training,
job readiness, positive youth development, literacy training, health
promotion and disease prevention, violence prevention cultural/social
activities and substance abuse referral services figure prominently. =
CFWD
assists men/fathers in removing barriers that inhibit them from =
providing
the emotional and financial support to their children-whether they are =
in an
intimate relationship with the child's mother or not. =20
Our President/CEO Joe Jones recognized early on that while we addressed =
men
who batter in the past by taking them to task (threatening removal of =
person
from home or notification of law enforcement) we hadn't developed a =
formal
mechanism in which to address a very complex and complicated issue. =
Also
during our programs initial inception we had no partnership linkage with
BIP's. The Common Ground Dialogues provided a mechanism in which
Responsible Fatherhood Programs and BIP's could dialogue and discuss
philosophical differences in policy and practice. Through the
aforementioned effort we were able to connect with the House of Ruth in
Baltimore (HOR). HOR and CFWD have partnered to facilitate cross =
exchange
of information (i.e. staff cross-training in both respective areas),
resources and services in the prevention and intervention of family
violence. Program participants engage in domestic violence activities =
that
promote prevention and are offered batterer services by the HOR. =20
To date CFWD and the House of Ruth have increased the capacity of =
services
to Men's Services participants through the following: Implementation of =
a
standard DV screening tool that must be completed by all participants, =
CFWD
Men's Services program prevention (education/awareness) and intervention
consisting of intensive case management (home visits, individualized
counseling sessions, support that focuses on DV issues, DV focused
workshops, counseling based upon curriculum modules (i.e., CFWD/HOR =
Training
Manual, Healthy Start Fatherhood Journal and NPCL Fatherhood Development
Curriculum) that address conflict resolution, anger management and
communication skills. Voluntary referrals to the HOR for batterer =
services
(22 week curriculum).
CFWD realizes that reconnecting fathers and families is not always =
possible
(i.e. CINA and TPR cases), yet we also realize that men who abuse will
engage in new relationships in which their threatening behavior will =
reoccur
and need intervention services as well. We hope that an emphasis on
education (impact on children and community) and prevention (identifying
triggers and modifying behavior) will increase fathers involvement in =
the
violence prevention activities and view the provided information as an =
asset
to their personal development. An Ecological Perspective that examines
domestic violence not in a vacuum (mans behavior) but also examines =
external
forces (community factors that influence) that guide/impact ones
decision-making can also be of value in examining this issue. =
Responsible
Fatherhood programs are in a unique position to connect with men who may =
be
difficult to access through traditional systems who may have significant
issues concerning anger. The HOR and CFWD are in discussion concerning =
ways
in which to get men more involved in the prevention of domestic =
violence.
Johnny Rice, II, M.S.=20
Director of Men's Services=20
Center for Fathers, Families and=20
Workforce Development=20
CFWD.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 14:39:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:39:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Fathers who have been violent (from Sally Jackson)
Message-ID: <000401c33cb9$dec514a0$3500510c@jimmy88>
In his case study Juan Carlos Arean writes, "As with any intervention
involving abusive men, their partners and children, we are aware that =
there
are risks in implementing this project. Predictably, the number one
consideration has involved safeguarding the physical and emotional =
integrity
of the mother and the children". Given this, what program approaches are
those of you in batterer intervention programs using to reach men in =
their
capacity as fathers who have been violent?
=20
If BIP programs want to be included and have serious dialog with those =
who
provide services for women and children survivors, in my opinion, need =
to
take a more serious stand against father involvement after abuse. Maybe
some of you need more education on the way that DV effects a family, =
maybe
you should talk to more people who do this work, maybe you should talk =
to
some survivors. Everyone in this country is endowed with the inalienable
rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...unless you =
commit a
crime, then those rights may be taken away. Fathers who abuse anyone in =
a
household have given up their right to be considered a father. I =
support
your efforts for BIP programs in the sense that the CJS can't (won't) =
solve
the problem, and in the hope that they will prevent future violence =
against
multiple women. But I don't believe you are considering what kind of a
message you are sending to the children of an abuser. That they can =
learn
not to be abusive anymore. How long does that take? When relearning
anything, people slip back into old behaviors easily. AA is a wonderful
program, but it's not 100%, people have gone through it and gone back to
alcoholism. What about the people who go back to the abusive behavior, =
how
is that protection for those women/kids?
I see very, very few men who will take a stand against violence in the =
area
of child custody/placement. The males that attend anything political are =
the
"father's rights" groups. That clearly sends the message that DV is a
woman's problem/issue. And creates the mistrust that you are trying to =
work
against. Are any of you involved in this area? Perhaps people who =
provide
services to women would trust you if you concretely demonstrated that =
you
are against violence. This discussion has been very enlightening, and I
truly hope that you are able to help/heal people who need it. I also =
hope
you keep in mind the people that have been broken by the people you are
trying to help, and the wounds they have inflicted that will not heal.
Sally Jackson
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 14:47:44 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:47:44 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: focusing on fathers - from La Wanza Lett-Brewington (from Dave McIntire)
Message-ID: <000701c33cbb$123c04a0$3500510c@jimmy88>
In response to La Wanza's remarks ... I am so sorry your husband had =
that
experience. If it is any encouragement, I have been serving at a dv and =
sa
task force for six months [today is my anniversary actually] and have =
been
welcomed as a partner by the women on staff. I'll admit I sensed a
cautiousness from a few of my colleagues and community members but =
overall
I've felt what I offered [which includes my genetics and history] has =
been
valued and honored. I'm encouraged by the vision of women and men =
working
together.
I understand the wariness of women who've served in this field for any
length of time. We, as a gender, have put them through hell either as an
abuser or part of a community that dismissed and belittled their passion =
for
change. I'm thankful for men like your husband and hope more men like =
him
will join to challenge that image.
Humbly,
Dave McIntire
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 17:16:36 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:16:36 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Recommended reading (from C. Soehl)
Message-ID: <000d01c33ccf$dddde6f0$3500510c@jimmy88>
Before attempting any kind of program with men who may be battering in =
their
families, I would sit down and read Lundy Bancroft's excellent book: The
Batterer as Parent: Addressing the Impact of Domestic Violence on Family
Dynamics (2002). With Jay G. Silverman, Ph.D. Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage
Publications.
This article may help to introduce his work:=20
http://www.lundybancroft.com/pages/articles_sub/JAFFE.htm
Assessing Risk to Children from Batterers
His understanding of the family dynamics that exist when one parent is
battering the other is the most complete and comprehensive I have ever
encountered.
As for step 1, when you have digested Bancroft's work, separate the =
sheep
from the goats. It is imperative to devote sufficient time to =
evaluation of
the client population to understand who is battering and who is not. =
Treat
them separately. Don't allow the batterer mentality to contaminate the =
men
who are not battering. Safety for family members should be the highest
priority. Even if your identified clients are the men who are =
battering,
nothing you do with them or any goals that you have for them should come
before safety.=20
C. Soehl
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 17:51:45 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:51:45 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Fathers who have been violent (from Anja Nekes)
Message-ID: <001701c33cd4$c7634190$3500510c@jimmy88>
Dear Discussion members,
=20
First of all I have some points of views to this case. the first point =
is
maybe I am correct or not it depends on the person. I found out that =
most
people who have violent parents have the same behaviour when they are
adults, but not all. Some men think weakness is not for a man. A man has =
no
right to cry or show emotions. We must teach men that showing emotions =
is
correct and beating, rape is not the right way.
=20
Also some men doing it when they are drunk - okay this is also a point =
but
not always right, also a non drunken man can do this.
=20
Some fathers which have problems in the job or in any case, think they =
could
solve this problems by a wrong behaviour meaning - beating, emotional =
abuse
etc. Instead of talking about problems they deny it and think the male
behaviour as a warrior means showing strength is correct way. Also some
video tapes show that this behaviour is a correct way, and the people =
who
are showing emotions are weaker than other. This is not correct.
=20
But not all fathers who have a bad parent show this behaviour also some
fathers which have goods parents, meaning parents who are not beating, =
could
show this.
=20
with kind regards,
=20
Anja Nekes (Ms)
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 20:50:28 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:50:28 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Fathers who have been violent from Anja Nekes (from Joy Hoffman)
Message-ID: <000601c33ced$bf2cb600$3500510c@jimmy88>
It is my humble opinion that not only should we be educating men that
emotion is not the same as weakness, but also demonstrating through
parenting, media, and education that assertiveness in a woman is =
acceptable.
Many (not all) women grow up in homes where beating is seen as normal, =
so if
they are beaten later, they may not see the red flags as others might in =
the
same situation. Or, if they do feel it is not right, they are not =
educated
in how to respond. They do the cycle of forgiveness, beating, =
forgiveness,
etc... and do not even realize they are in a cycle. It is always, that =
"one
more chance" syndrome. They are so committed to parenting or being a =
"good
wife," that they fail to see their own needs, if not rights as a woman.
In the same way, some men grow up in such an environment, but with other
role models (perhaps outside the home), media, and education may not end =
up
as batterers themselves.
I do agree that most evidence shows that people who have violent parents
often grow up with similar behavior. That being said, I'd also be
interested in that individual's outside resources - are these topics =
being
addressed in schools appropriately? Are school teachers and =
administrators
picking up on "signs" in the classroom that home life may not be =
positive
and working with individuals to address it? What is the education =
system
teaching youth about gender roles? Are we talking to children about =
media
and the roles it assigns to men and women? Etc....
I believe a violent home can, and perhaps often, nurture violent =
children
who become violent adults... but I also believe that there is more than =
the
home that can be held responsible. I believe that cycles can be broken.
Humbly,
Joy Hoffman
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 21:33:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:33:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Fathers who have been violent from Anja Nekes (from Nicole Matthews-Creech)
Message-ID: <000c01c33cf3$bdd5a2c0$3500510c@jimmy88>
I am the Community Education Coordinator for a Domestic & Sexual =
Violence
Agency in Michigan. I spend about 80% of my work hours in the school
systems educating children ages 10-18 about domestic and sexual =
violence.
It is imperative that we take every opportunity that we have with =
children
to teach them about what an abusive relationship looks like, how to
recognize abusive patterns in yourself and those you know and that just
because your parents were in an abusive relationship, does not mean that =
you
need to fall into those same patterns.
It is statistically evident that many who grow up with violence in the =
home
will continue to follow those patterns of abuse into their own
relationships, whether as a perpetrator or a victim.
In response to the discussions about fatherhood programs and dv programs
working together, again I feel that we need to take advantage of every
opportunity to educate that violence is wrong. Anger is a natural =
emotion
and usually the easiest emotion to portray. But what matters in what we =
do
with that anger and how we let it manifest itself into our lives. =
Violence
is always a choice, no matter what! We have to be strong and not let =
these
controlling, manipulative people con us into thinking that they are =
damaged
and that is why they act out in violence ways!!!!
Nicole Matthews-Creech
Community Education Coordinator
LACASA-Howell, MI
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 23:38:14 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:38:14 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Responses to Joy Hoffman and Nicole Matthews-Creech (from Ross Ellis)
Message-ID: <000301c33d05$2ec29220$9355510c@jimmy88>
In response to Joy Hoffman:
Violence is not always a choice if you've been so brainwashed that you =
know
nothing else. And it's certainly not a choice for children. For healthy
people like us it is a choice, but not for everyone.
Bravo to you for teaching in the schools.
This behavior is being ignored in many schools because they are afraid =
to
get involved ... sadly. When a child is abused or is a witness to abuse =
in
the family, they can easily display that same behavior when they become =
an
adult. For most, it's all they know. For example if you're an alcoholic
--all you want is a drink. Well if you've been abused and brainwashed as =
a
child, it is very likely you will not only expect the same treatment as =
an
adult, but will probably continue the cycle. Not everyone does, but many =
do.
Education, awareness, and advocacy are the key elements to prevention. =
We're
working on getting programs into the school system across the country.
Budgets are delaying it terribly. If these programs are not included in =
the
schools, teachers won't take the initiative on their own. Fear, =
lawsuits,
etc. The issue of child abuse is more difficult...because it's the =
ugliest
thing. The public figures women can protect themselves and leave, =
(wrong)
but children cannot. They cannot deal with the vision of a child being
abused because it's so ugly. Therefore, raising awareness and educating =
is
that much harder. Yet, we continue to fight the good fight for children =
and
their future so they don't grow up to be adult victims of domestic =
violence.
Cycles can be broken and it will take a lot of work but if we are =
proactive
...we can help people break the cycles of abuse.
In response to Nicole Matthews-Creech:
Violence is not always a choice if you've been so brainwashed that you =
know
nothing else. And it's certainly not a choice for children. For healthy
people like us it is a choice, but not for everyone.
Bravo to you for teaching in the schools.
Ross Ellis
Love Our Children USA
www.loveourchildrenusa.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jun 27 23:54:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:54:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Bringing discussion three to a close (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000901c33d07$70393a90$9355510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,
We are now closing the online discussion number three "Building Bridges
between Responsible Fatherhood Programs and Programs Working to End Men's
Violence". Thank you to everyone who participated in this discussion, and
please look out for a discussion summary to be sent out next week.
Our fourth and last topic, "Young Men as Allies in Preventing Violence and
Abuse - Building Effective Partnerships with Schools" will begin on July
7th. Please be sure to read the overview paper and case studies for this
discussion topic, and we look forward to your participation. The overview
paper and case studies will be posted on our website shortly before the
beginning of the discussion:
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussions.php
Warm regards,
PEMVnet Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 3 20:10:31 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:10:31 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Summary of Discussion Three (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000601c3419f$2a26feb0$2c6f510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
Please find below a summary of the discussion number three on fatherhood
programs. Be sure to check our webpage for the other discussion =
summaries:=20
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussions.php
Our next discussion "Young Men as Allies in Preventing Violence and =
Abuse:
Building Effective Partnerships with Schools" begins next Monday, July =
7th.
This topic will be facilitated by Alan Berkowitz, Peter Jaffe, Dean =
Peacock,
Barri Rosenbluth & Carole Sousa. The discussion case studies are by =
Expect
Respect, the Family Violence Prevention Fund, GLSEN, Men Can Stop Rape,
Mentors in Violence Prevention, the Thames Valley School District, and =
on
the Social Norms Approach.
Best regards,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
------
Summary of Online Discussion Three
Fatherhood Programs and Domestic Violence Prevention
In the opening piece for this discussion, Jacquelyn Boggess, Jerry =
Tello,
and Oliver Williams discuss the opportunities and challenges of working =
with
fatherhood groups to engage men in ending violence against women. They
distinguish three different types of fatherhood organizations: 1) =
fathers'
rights, 2) responsible fatherhood, and 3) father involvement, and =
identify
the father involvement groups as a good starting point for collaboration
around domestic violence issues. Father involvement groups begin in =
local
communities and are typically started by men who want to help other men =
look
at issues related to fathering. Through these groups, men who have not =
been
abusive, as well as those who have, can be reached. Because families do =
not
experience violence as separate from other struggles they may be facing, =
it
is vital that programs are able to address a range of needs. Fatherhood
programs need to include violence-related issues, as well as support to
address unemployment, substance abuse, etc. The same is true for =
domestic
violence programs. Yet we must be realistic about what we can expect =
these
organizations to address. Creating opportunities for men to heal and =
build
healthy relationships is also critical to this work, while always
emphasizing safety for the adult survivor and children.
Thirty-seven participants contributed to this discussion in 45 postings.
One participant described the work being done in Washington, DC to =
create
dialogue among domestic violence services organizations and fatherhood
groups. People in the domestic violence agencies were mistrustful at =
first
because their experience with fatherhood groups was through contact with
fathers' rights groups. However, most of the fatherhood groups =
participating
in the dialogues are either father involvement or responsible fatherhood
groups. To keep the dialogues moving in a positive direction, the
organizers emphasize the common goal across all the organizations of
healthier, safer relationships that benefit women and children, as well =
as
men. The groups have also come to realize that working together they =
can
provide more comprehensive services than they can working separately. =
These
shared values help them resolve the tensions that inevitably arise. =
They
have also established ground rules for discussion and encourage =
participants
to avoid using trigger words that may provoke mistrust and concern in =
other
participants. Even the term "responsible fatherhood" can be seen as
implying that men are not typically responsible regarding their =
parenting,
and may be especially stigmatizing of poor men.
=20
Similar collaboration work is beginning in Virginia. The State =
Department of
Health provided trainings for people who work in fatherhood =
organizations to
learn more about sexual assault so that they are not inadvertently =
passing
along messages that reinforce gender stereotypes that further male =
violence.
In addition to these receptive fatherhood groups, there are also the =
more
antagonistic fathers' rights groups in Virginia. They have had a big =
impact
on local judges making child custody decisions, and have succeeded in
getting judges appointed who are strong fathers' rights proponents. =
This
participant pointed out that people who do not understand the dynamics =
of
abuse may not see what is wrong with this. Statistics show that the men =
who
are most likely to seek custody of their children after a divorce are
batterers. Their aim is not to provide their children with stable homes =
(as
they usually say in court), but to continue to control their ex-wives,
through their children, after the divorce. Many of these men also abuse
their children directly. These fathers' rights groups are well =
organized
and funded, with strong lobbying skills. It is no wonder, given this
dynamic, that domestic and sexual violence services providers are
mistrustful of fathers' groups. =20
Other discussion participants emphasized the need for better tools for
addressing fatherhood in the context of batterer intervention programs. =
One
facilitator for a batterer intervention program stated that a large =
portion
of class time is spent on parenting issues. Regardless of the =
circumstances
of the violence, most fathers in the program are interested in learning =
more
about how the violence has affected their children and what they can do =
to
improve that relationship. Another participant pointed out that
organizations such as the Men's Resource Center (MRC) of Western
Massachusetts, the MRC of Northern New Mexico, and CORIAC in Mexico City =
do
not see fatherhood work and batterers intervention as two different =
tracks,
but basically as two sides of the same coin. At the center of the MRC
philosophy is the idea that stereotypical, traditional masculinity is =
toxic
not only for men's families, but also for the men themselves. Unhealthy
definitions of masculinity encourage men to be controlling and violent =
with
women, children and other men, while ignoring their own feelings and =
those
of others. This analysis can help bridge seemingly divergent goals of
different programs for men, such as stopping violence against women and
children, making men better fathers, and supporting men in their process =
of
growth and change. =20
It is important, however, to recognize that fatherhood programs and =
domestic
violence and sexual assault services have typically worked without their
paths crossing. And society has reinforced each side seeing the other =
as a
part of the problem. This causes tension. Part of collaborating is
acknowledging that when some fatherhood programs frame responsibility, =
they
condone men's control of other family members. It will be important to =
the
future of collaborative efforts to address directly these tensions. It =
is
also critical to identify why these collaborations can move the =
collective
work forward. For example, collaborations can lead to a united front
against funding requirements that disregard the importance of violence
prevention. Other social welfare policy notions that can bring these =
groups
together include: 1) safety from family violence is of paramount =
importance,
as is child wellbeing; 2) fatherhood programs are not batterer's
intervention programs; 3) there is value for low-income fathers, their
families, and for society to provide these men with employment and other
services; and 4) the great majority of men and women affected by =
government
fatherhood policy decisions are poor, as are their children.
One participant who works with young fathers pointed out the importance =
of
providing this population with information about the effects of violence
against women, and with strategies for forming nurturing interactions =
with
their families. Training on domestic violence and sexual assault =
prevention
is crucial for practitioners working with this population and other =
groups
of men. Socialization has resulted in low expectations of fathers
generally. As one participant highlighted, fathers can do so much more =
than
simply not batter their wives or partners. They can pass on to their
children healthy messages about sexuality, protect their children from
sexual abuse, model egalitarian relationships and shared power, and
demonstrate respect for the women and girls in their lives. Given that,
another participant stated that fatherhood programs should: focus on the
safety and wellbeing of children; encourage fathers to be financially =
and
emotionally responsible for their children; improve familial, parental, =
and
community partnerships; provide opportunities for fathers to learn from
positive role models and peer support; educate on the importance and
effectiveness of good co-parenting; work to secure jobs with wage growth
potential and career development; provide assistance with education,
employment, economic barriers and community systems; measure program
outcomes; provide opportunities for staff development and training; and =
have
a policy for addressing domestic violence and sexual assault issues.
Other contributions included ways to tell when a man who has been =
violent is
now willing to take responsibility and be held accountable for his =
behavior;
further discussion of the definition of manhood and what that means for
fatherhood; thoughts about the role of spirituality in ending violence =
and
healing wounds; and comments on intergenerational cycles of violence.
References Mentioned in the Discussion
Bancroft, Lundy. The Batterer as Parent: Addressing the Impact of =
Domestic
Violence on Family Dynamics. With Jay G. Silverman, Ph.D. Thousand Oaks, =
CA:
Sage Publications, 2002.
Bancroft, Lundy. and Jay G. Silverman "Assessing Risk to Children from
Batterers"=20
http://www.lundybancroft.com/pages/articles_sub/JAFFE.htm
Bloom, S. Creating Sanctuary, an Evolution Towards Sane Communities.
Routledge, 1997
Carnes, Patrick." The Betrayal Bond; Breaking Free of Exploitive
Relationships", 1997.=20
Foster, Richard. Celebration of Discipline. Harper, San Francisco, 2002.
Grossman, D. On Killing, the Psychological Costs of Learning to Kill in =
War
and Society, Little, Brown and company, 1995, 1996.
Herman, Judith. Trauma and Recovery; the Aftermath of Violence--from
Domestic Violence to Political Terror, 1992.=20
Jacobson, Neil & John Gottman. When Men Batter Women, 1998.=20
McClure, John and Nancy Ramsey eds. Telling The Truth; Preaching about
Sexual and Domestic Violence, United Press Church, 1998.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 7 15:14:40 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:14:40 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Launching Discussion Four - Building Effective Partnerships with Schools
Message-ID: <000701c3449a$7de61970$cb01510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
We are happy to now launch our fourth discussion on "Young Men as Allies =
in
Preventing Violence and Abuse - Building Effective Partnerships with
Schools". This discussion will last through July 18th.=20
Before you participate, please read the overview paper and case studies =
on
our website: http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussion4.php
The summary of the overview paper is below. We look forward to you =
thoughts
and experiences. If you have questions about this online discussion, =
please
see: http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussions.php
Warm regards,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
-----
=20
YOUNG MEN AS ALLIES IN PREVENTING VIOLENCE AND ABUSE: BUILDING EFFECTIVE
PARTNERSHIPS WITH SCHOOLS
Written by:=20
Alan Berkowitz, Peter Jaffe, Dean Peacock, Barri Rosenbluth & Carole =
Sousa
In the hallway of a public high school, a young man, urged on by his
friends, gropes a classmate despite her repeated attempts to push him =
away.
A silent majority of male and female students, uncomfortable but =
uncertain
what to do, pretend not to notice.
In another school, a teacher feels overwhelmed and exhausted after =
failing
to contain an especially disruptive student. She knows he's exposed to
ongoing violence at home and is not sure what to do.
At basketball practice, a coach listens intently as one of his players
describes with obvious pride a presentation he recently led in front of =
an
all male audience on preventing teen dating violence.=20
In a school board meeting, parents, teachers and students, who not long =
ago
were locked in confrontations about endemic sexual harassment, celebrate =
the
anniversary of a new dating violence initiative focused on building the
capacity of male students to challenge violence against women and girls. =
The settings and specifics may change, but the stories remain similar, =
the
landscape familiar. In schools all across the country, every day, young =
men
and boys build relationships based on their notion of what it means to =
be a
"real" man. They sometimes make choices that put others and themselves =
at
risk and contribute to a variety of devastating public health problems, =
such
as teen dating violence, unplanned teen parenthood, and sexually =
transmitted
diseases, including HIV infection. As the vignettes suggest, young men =
also
make choices that promote healthy relationships free of violence that =
both
partners can truly enjoy. Mindful of this, schools and communities =
across
the country are implementing programs that reach out to young men and =
invite
them to take up the challenge of ending domestic and sexual violence. =
This
paper argues that young men can play a critical role in constructing a
healthier world for women and men, a world free of violence and founded =
on
principles of equity and compassion. The paper argues that schools have =
a
critical role to play in making this happen.=20
>From birth, boys are socialized into patterns of identity and behavior =
that
will cause some men to be violent towards others, and most to be =
ineffective
witnesses to this violence. As a result, violence prevention efforts =
for
men must start early. Schools provide a perfect setting for this =
preventive
and educational effort. Thus, this paper makes a case for the =
development
of violence prevention initiatives in schools that focus on boys. It
outlines obstacles to effective school violence prevention programs,
suggests strategies that may be effective and, most importantly, argues =
for
the development of ongoing partnerships and collaborations with =
educators
and school systems for this purpose. At the end seven case studies =
provide
examples of effective implementation of this approach. While the focus =
is
on violence against women, many of the strategies and recommendations =
would
also serve to reduce violence perpetrated by men against other men.
SCHOOLS AND THE IMPACT OF MALE VIOLENCE
Educators may be surprised by the extent and impact of violence against
school aged girls and its effect on what happens in schools. One-fifth =
of
teenage girls are assaulted by a dating partner during adolescence, and
roughly 16-39 percent of adolescent boys admit to having used violence
against a dating partner. Girls who have experienced such violence are =
more
likely to become pregnant as teenagers, to attempt suicide, to use drugs =
and
alcohol, and to have eating disorders. These effects play themselves =
out in
dramatic ways in classrooms across the country, impeding students' =
ability
to learn and adding untold stress to the already difficult jobs of =
teachers
and administrators. Finding a solution to this problem is an urgent
priority.
Schools have a critical role to play in addressing domestic and dating
violence and in getting young men to take a stand against it. To do so =
we
must look beyond the obstacles posed by limited resources, labyrinthine
school districts, and testing requirements to focus on the interests and
goals educators and violence prevention advocates share.
ACKNOWLEDGING THE CHALLENGES FROM THE OUTSET
If it were easy to develop school-based domestic and sexual violence
programs, it would have happened a long time ago. In fact, there are =
real
challenges that at times appear daunting to both advocates and =
educators,
including the following:=20
Schools and educators struggle with many competing demands. Prevention
advocates understand that the schools face many competing demands that =
make
it difficult for teachers and administrators to take on any additional
issues. Advocates understand that schools are currently struggling with
budget cuts and personnel lay-offs, and that in this climate educators =
are
likely to be reluctant to take on anything new. Similarly, advocates
recognize that educators face reforms focused on standardized tests, =
forcing
them to spend most of their time "teaching to the test" and leaving =
little
room for adding a focus on gender and violence into their already full
workload.
Advocates and educators sometimes doubt prevention, especially when it =
comes
to working with young men and boys. Advocates and school personnel =
alike
are sometimes doubtful about the efficacy of prevention strategies, and
often appear even more hesitant to engage boys and young men as allies =
in
efforts to prevent violence. Simplistic approaches, too, are often =
fueled
by a punitive "lock-em-up" trend in society. Yet to make progress,
educators must believe that prevention of violence against women is =
possible
and be aware of the growing number of successful programs.=20
Advocates sometimes feel ill equipped to work in schools. Violence
prevention advocates may themselves be reluctant to invest scarce =
resources
into developing school-based domestic and sexual violence prevention
programs. By building on the lessons learned from existing models,
advocates can begin to develop the skills and resources they need to =
offer
school-based programs in their communities.=20
COMPELLING REASONS FOR WORKING IN SCHOOLS TO END VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN
Given these challenges, how do we promote our vision? How do we =
convince
key stakeholders that schools have a vital role to play in promoting =
young
men's involvement in ending violence against women and girls? Answers =
to
these questions include the following:
Schools are uniquely positioned to address domestic and dating violence =
and
to promote positive alternatives. Schools offer an opportunity unlike =
any
other for prevention efforts that make teens more aware of violence in
relationships and help prepare children of all ages for healthy
relationships.=20
Schools influence the social norms regarding gender-based behavior. The
social norms that encourage or condone violence exist in our schools as
well. At the same time, healthy norms that are hidden can be brought =
out
into the open to inhibit violence. For example, boys are often
uncomfortable with the social norms of masculinity and with the =
behaviors of
other men. School prevention programs can validate this discomfort and =
help
boys express their opposition to abusive behavior when they do witness =
it,
transforming young men into empowered bystanders. See, for example, the
case studies on Mentors in Violence Prevention and on the Social Norms
Approach included in the long version of this paper.
Prevention is effective and strengthens schools. A growing number of
successful programs and case studies, coupled with recent tragedies, =
have
empowered advocates for school-based violence prevention programs. As =
these
programs have developed, consistent insights about what works have =
emerged.
In particular, most violence happens in the context of personal
relationships. Thus, violence prevention programs that focus on helping
students develop attitudes and skills important for healthy =
relationships
have promise. The case studies included in this paper highlight some of
these programs. For example, the case study of the Gay Lesbian Straight
Education Network (GLSEN) illustrates well the significant impact that
school-based prevention programs can have on the culture of an entire
school.
Punitive, post-crisis responses will not end violence. Because punitive
approaches have limited effectiveness and unintended negative =
consequences,
prevention must be a priority. By engaging young men and boys with =
their
peers and adult mentors, they can be partners in these initiatives and
active participants in increasing school safety as well as ending =
violence
against women and girls.=20
BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS WITH SCHOOLS
The development of effective partnerships with schools is an ongoing =
process
that begins with small steps, is sensitive to the challenges and =
realities
that schools face, and is informed by a vision of what a comprehensive
school-based program looks like.
Develop a comprehensive program. One-time approaches are unlikely to =
have
much of a long-term impact. At best, they raise awareness and provide
students a vocabulary with which to talk about their experiences. At =
worst,
they reinforce the view that violence against women and girls is a
peripheral issue. Thus school-based programs should foster the =
development
of long-term, comprehensive programs through community collaborations =
that
include advocates, educators, and law enforcement officials. It is
important to start with individuals from groups who have an interest in
violence prevention and who understand the inner workings of a school or
school district.=20
Remind educators that domestic and sexual violence prevention programs =
are
consistent with school mandates. The immediate mandate of all school
districts is to provide students with a safe environment in which to =
learn.
Youth suffering from trauma-whether through being bullied or =
experiencing
dating violence-often do poorly in school. Reminding school officials =
of
their responsibility to ensure a safe learning environment can produce
impressive results in a way that the standard pitch about adolescence =
being
"a unique opportunity to prevent adult domestic violence" may not be. =
After
all, as much as school staff and officials within departments of =
education
might be concerned about the lives their students go on to live as =
adults,
their immediate concern is with the schools they teach in or oversee.=20
Use Data Effectively. Data can be an effective tool to bring together
advocates and school personnel, showing the pervasiveness and impact of
violence against women and girls, and revealing the connections between
gender roles, young men's violence, and other harmful behaviors. =
Research
can highlight program effectiveness. Finally, data can reveal the
discomfort students feel with violence and their desire to intervene, =
thus
providing important information about actual norms that can be =
integrated
into prevention programs=20
Build long-term relationships. Each contact with a school can be seen =
as
part of a bigger picture. For example, every request from a teacher for
assistance is also an opportunity to learn more about how to advance a
comprehensive approach in the school. Campaigns can start with a small,
informal partnership of an advocate and a concerned teacher, who then
identifies who else should join the partnership. Eventually, this group =
can
develop into an advisory board for school-based violence prevention =
efforts.
Build relationships with other programs. One of the most efficient ways =
to
introduce a comprehensive program that addresses violence against women =
and
girls is to build relationships with already existing school-based =
programs
that address related issues. This is true both at an individual school
level and at the district level. Given the overlap between violence and
other issues, it makes sense to partner with programs that address these
other issues. =20
Establish an advisory board or leadership team. Advisory boards =
consisting
of faculty, administrators, and parents are needed to plan and implement
program activities and to build support for them among stakeholder =
groups.
Work may proceed slowly at first as members identify school needs, =
discuss
competing priorities, and ultimately agree on an action plan. It may =
take
time to develop a strong advisory board that will advocate for a plan to
sustain a comprehensive program that avoids implementing programming in =
a
haphazard way. =20
Work with state departments of education. In some states, activists,
advocates, educators, concerned parents, and students have organized to =
gain
the support of their state department of education. These efforts can =
lead
to changes in school policy and practice across the entire state and can
also leverage important state resources that can be used to promote and
monitor collaboration. The success of any initiative is often connected =
to
the availability of sustained funding. One way to advocate for these =
funds
is to lobby a state representative to author legislation.=20
COMPONENTS OF AN EFFECTIVE SCHOOL-BASED PROGRAM
What are the critical elements of a comprehensive school-based program =
to
end violence? They include the following:
Develop comprehensive school policies to prohibit gender-based violence.
School codes of conduct that prohibit violence and threats at school may
fail to address common forms of hurtful language and behavior that can =
be
described as bullying or sexual harassment. Clear policies and =
guidelines
are needed to help school personnel respond effectively and in a =
consistent
manner to these behaviors. Such policies must be victim-sensitive, =
ensuring
that targets of bullying, sexual harassment, and dating violence be
protected from retaliation and from further abuse during and after the
investigation process.=20
Integrate violence prevention themes into existing school curricula. An
effective strategy is to integrate violence prevention activities,
discussions and writing assignments into existing curricula in core =
subject
areas. Otherwise busy teachers may be willing to include lessons from
selected violence prevention curricula designed to enhance their course
work. With sufficient training and technical assistance from advocates,
teachers can help students explore the connections between violence, =
sexism,
racism, and other forms of injustice and oppression.
Train staff. Teachers need support from their administrators, adequate
training and materials, and time to attend training workshops, plan =
lessons,
supplement class work, and coordinate with other teachers and advocates.
Training for teachers should include understanding the effects of =
violence
and abuse on children, warning signs, how to respond to incidents and
disclosures at school, and how to access community resources.
Involve parents. Comprehensive programs involve parents at multiple =
levels.
This may include communications with parents in meetings and =
newsletters,
parent conferences, and referrals for families experiencing violence.
Parent groups can sponsor events, and information can be disseminated
through written materials, cable access television shows, and =
performance
pieces.
Provide school-based counseling. Children who have been hurt by sexual =
or
domestic violence need specialized counseling to increase their safety =
and
social support. A partnership with a local sexual/domestic violence =
agency
can meet this need. School-based groups offer a unique setting for =
young
men and young women to discuss issues of violence and abuse in their =
homes
and dating relationships. Young men's groups can provide a safe place =
for
boys to explore their experience as perpetrators, victims and/or =
bystanders,
and serve as an intervention for boys who have begun to use violent or
coercive behavior.=20
Invite guest speakers. Guest speakers from local agencies can provide
expert information and, when representing diverse groups, demonstrate =
that
violence affects men and women of different races, cultures, physical
abilities, educational levels, and socioeconomic status. They show that
many people are actively working to end violence against women and =
girls.
Agency personnel can also provide follow-up activities and materials.
=20
COMPONENTS OF EFFECTIVE PROGRAMS FOR BOYS
Prevention programs aimed at young men and boys are effective when they
involve all relevant parties, are active rather than passive, are =
sustained
over time, focus on boys concerns and experiences, and employ positive
messages. These dimensions can be incorporated into programs of any =
size or
scope. =20
Because violence is a gendered experience, programs are more effective =
for
boys and girls when gender differences and concerns are considered and
integrated into an intervention. In some cases this may mean offering
separate gender programs. Thus, school violence prevention programs for
boys must address their concerns and realities, which center on feelings =
of
blame for the problem, uncertainty about how to act in intimate
relationships, misperceptions and myths about peer sexual activity, =
fears
about what other boys will think, and previous experiences as witnesses =
or
victims of violence. Healthy norms in these areas can be encouraged and
supported. Prevention programs that work with young men may utilize
strategies such as the development of empathy for victims, understanding
consent, reducing bystander behavior, and re-imagining what it means to =
be
male. These strategies must be adapted in school settings to fit the
developmental stage of the students, whether in coeducational or =
separate
gender audiences. =20
CONCLUSION
Exposure to gender-based violence can affect educational and other child
well being outcomes. Schools have a vested interest in reducing
gender-based violence and are an ideal place to address it, serving as a
training ground for social relationships and providing opportunities for
adults to model healthy relationships and interrupt abusive behavior.
Comprehensive strategies include policies, staff training, curriculum, =
and
discussions in separate gender group. They promote safe and respectful
relationships among students at school and prepare young people for =
healthy,
non-violent relationships in the future. Partnerships among advocates =
and
educators are critical to this work. Work with young men and boy is
particularly critical for changing social norms regarding relationships =
and
violence against women. We hope that this paper shows clearly the role
schools can play in ending violence against women and girls, and that =
our
comments will spark a lively discussion to move this important work =
forward.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 9 21:50:54 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:50:54 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Discussion Four Reminder (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <003a01c34664$2c998b80$9071510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet participants,
This is a reminder that we are now in the fourth "Building Partnerships to
End Men's Violence" online discussion. Our current topic is: Young Men as
Allies in Preventing Violence and Abuse - Building Effective Partnerships
with Schools. This discussion will last until Friday, July 18th.
We would like to hear from those who have experience working with youth or
in schools, or those who have questions or comments regarding this topic.
To read the case studies and overview paper, please go here:
http://endabuse.org/bpi/discussion4.php
Warm regards,
PEMVnet Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 9 23:53:56 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:53:56 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] How do we get more parents educated? (from Joy Hoffman)
Message-ID: <004301c34675$5c967cb0$9071510c@jimmy88>
The ideas in the paper were outstanding. From my contacts with =
colleagues
and professionals, it seems as if schools (especially higher education) =
are
beginning to see the urgency in educating student populations. That =
being
said, I am not personally aware of how many high schools or elementary
schools are in the process. Even institutions in higher education are =
often
timid about such education, especially Christian institutions. Talking
about sex in general is taboo, so talking about sexual assault requires =
a
committed professional to cut through the red tape, get the right
administrators on board, and begin the process of creating dialogue on
campus. =20
=20
>From my experience, it seems as if sex education in general is becoming =
a
required topic in many schools - elementary, high school, and college - =
but
does sex education take it a step further and talk about what healthy
relationships look like? We do a great job in telling students about =
body
parts and what goes where, the consequences of unprotected sex, etc. but
what about he emotional and relational sides of the education piece? =
What
about consent, communication, and boundaries?
=20
I have worked in higher education for almost ten years, and it is an =
ongoing
struggle for me to get administrators "on board" to talk about sex, much
less sexual assault. But my experiences tell me that students WANT to =
talk
about it. I hosted a "healthy relationships and boundaries" discussion =
last
spring and the students who attended were shocked that I was willing to =
be
as open as I was. We talked about sex, healthy relationships, "red =
flags,"
communication, etc. For some of them, it was the first time anyone was
willing to talk about it - I had students visiting my office for weeks =
to
dialogue or debrief. =20
=20
Am I wrong or are parents still not talking to their children about sex? =
Or
if they are, what do those conversations look like? If they are =
depending
on the education system to take care of it, which schools are not only
talking about sex, but also sexual assault?
=20
One of the things I was intrigued about was getting parents involved in =
the
education process. My parents do not know anything about sexual assault =
and
rape. To them, it is still a crime that takes place in dark alley ways
where a woman has a knife to her throat. If there isn't a gun or knife,
then she could have escaped the situation. If she was drunk or dressed =
a
certain way, then she had it coming to her. So you take parents like =
mine,
and you risk raising children with the same attitude. I was fortunate =
enough
to break the cycle in my own education process and now I am most =
intentional
about teaching my daughter and son about healthy relationships, consent, =
and
communication.
=20
But what about those my age (35) who never broke the cycle. who have =
never
had the freshmen required class on sexual assault, or anything offered =
in
college? What kind of children are they raising? Until we make this a
requirement in grade school and continue following up in high school and
college, there will forever be children/adults who grow up with tainted
views of women, men, gender roles, and sex.
=20
The ideas in the paper are outstanding. My question is, WHO is doing =
this
type of education, WHICH schools are being successful, HOW do we make it
required throughout the education system, and WHAT can we be doing to =
get
parents more involved? I offered to talk to parents at new student
orientation about the statistics, risks, and vulnerability of college =
women
concerning sexual assault and rape. I also wanted to give them tools to
respond, and resources at the institution and in the community, just in =
case
they were to get a phone call during the school year. NO WAY was the =
answer
- "we don't want to freak out the parents." But I think parents would =
be
better for it. We could challenge them to talk to their sons and =
daughters.
As an additional piece, the freshmen are all required to attend sexual
assault education classes during the fall semester (offered through a
required freshmen course). How awesome would it be for parents to =
dialogue
with their children about the topic as they are going through the =
classes?
=20
If any of you have ideas on how to get parents involved - in elementary,
high school, or college, please let me know! And if any of you have =
been
successful in your endeavors to begin parent programs at your schools or
organizations, please share!
Joy Hoffman
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 10 14:18:08 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:18:08 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Breaking into the schools (from Ron Liszak)
Message-ID: <3F0D75A0.9050803@mencanstoprape.org>
After attending Mentors in Violence Prevention (MVP) training at
Norhteastern U. in Boston, I returned to Missoula Montana ready to
introduce this bystander awareness model to my community through the
school system. I do not work for the school system, but rather for a
feminist non-profit, and my efforts to break into the school system soon
slowed to glacial speed. I spoke with school administrators all over
town and heard the same song: no money, no time, we have our plates full
already. I presented a training for teachers from a local private school
as well as personel from my agency. My agency then collaborated with our
school system in applying for and receiving a Safe Schools Grant which
opened doors a crack for me. I was able to form a student advisory board
that conducted a violence survey in the high schools and they created
some anti violence ads for the school papers.
Under the Safe Schools grant I contacted the Flagship Summer Program and
conducted MVP trainings in June and July for students from three high
schools. In August I conducted a training for Middle and High School
teachers that was well received. Having this group of teachers aware of
the curriculum led to an invitation to conduct trainings to students as
part of a prep for life class in one of our high schools. This training
also was well received, the kids were excited to have the oportunity to
participate in meaningful discussion on an issue that effects everybody
on some level. We made sure to give the counselors a heads up to be
ready for some fallout from our raising sensitive issues, and the class
room teacher was a big help in catching the kids who had issues or were
impacted heavely, and get them to the counselors.
I am looking forward to continuing my efforts to bring MVP into the
schools. It's a long road, but I now feel like I have planted some
seeds. I will be contacting the teachers I worked with last summer to
see if they will approach their administrators and perhaps get the
trainings going on a regular schedule. I am also involved with our local
Family Violence Council in the innitial stages of preparing a community
wide grant request to bring bystander awareness to the youth of our
community from many angles. This work takes time, but it is necessary.
My strategy is to keep plugging away, get the word out, and look for
collaborators wherever I can find them. I am amazed at how many people
care about the issue of men's violence against women. I am pleased to
have met a number of adolescent youth who are willing to speak out about
this issue.
Keep the faith,
Ron Liszak
WORD/Futures
Missoula, MT
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 10 15:21:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:21:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Building Relationships with schools (from Tammy Lemmer)
Message-ID: <000b01c346f6$e51f9fe0$3b01510c@jimmy88>
I whole-heartedly agree with a multi-level approach to ending violence, =
and
building relationships with the schools is key. (This is true in any
endeavor, of course.) We have to remember that it's ok, and in most =
cases
necessary, to start small and build those relationships as you go.=20
The statement regarding the need to connect with an individual teacher =
or
pre-existing program is a great strategy. By finding an ally who can
advocate with or for you to the administration, you are more likely to =
get
positive results. The administration is more likely to move forward if =
they
know their staff or faculty isn't going to fight them on it. (The =
parental
support and reaction as raised by Joy is a whole different problem. I =
don't
have great insight into that other than to use the data documenting the
societal issues to show how it does impact their child, regardless of =
how
sheltered that parent thinks the child is. I think the bystander =
philosophy
can be useful for the parents as well. If you can't get a parent to
acknowledge that all children are at risk despite the myths to the =
contrary,
you might try this approach: "Your child may not directly experience
violence, but what if he/she witnesses it? Don't you want them to react
appropriately?")
As also mentioned in the paper, integrating violence prevention into the
curricula is important, particularly in states that have mandatory =
testing
requirements that drive that curriculum. We must be able to show that a
project will augment the students' studies in a particular area. It =
doesn't
have to "replace" something else they "have to study." As important as =
they
are, I do not think school-based programs alone can be effective without
community partnerships and collaborations. Attending school is a =
negative
experience for some students, and unfortunately, some students put less
value on their "formal education" than they do on the lessons from the
street. That's where extra-curricular activities that do hold a =
student's
interest can be a way of reinforcing the messages that are coming from
school. In full disclosure, my background is with youth services, so I =
am
biased. However, I also know first hand that most youth-oriented
organizations are very open to partnering with the schools and other =
groups.
It helps with funding and exposure for all parties. The philosophy is =
(or
should be) "whatever is best for the kids." Violence prevention =
certainly
fits that bill. The schools and the organizations can work together to
address this issue.
Tammy Lemmer
Special Projects Manager
Michigan Coalition Against Domestic and Sexual Violence
Okemos, MI=20
www.mcadsv.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 10 19:10:35 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:10:35 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Online Discussion Questionnaire - Please fill in by July 25th (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <001d01c34716$f1dc11d0$3b01510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
Please find below a questionnaire regarding the Building Partnerships to =
End
Men's Violence Online Discussion Series. This is your opportunity to =
tell us
what you think about the process and content of this series.
The questionnaire takes about 10 minutes. Please take the time to fill =
in
this short survey, as your feedback will help shape potential next steps =
and
future initiatives related to this project. Your answers will be kept
strictly confidential; however we will report the survey findings back =
to
you via the discussion list in September. Please send the completed
questionnaire back to us at bpi-moderator@endabuse.org by July 25th. =20
Instructions for completing the questionnaire: =20
1) Cut and paste the questionnaire below into a new email=20
2) Fill in your answers directly in the new email =20
3) Send the email to bpi-moderator@endabuse.org by July 25th.=20
Thank you kindly in advance,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
-------
Building Partnerships to End Men's Violence
Online Discussion Series Feedback Questionnaire
Section One - The online discussion
1. How did you find the instructions for participating on PEMVnet (i.e.
registration, netiquette, frequently asked questions)? (Put an 'X' =
beside
your answer.)=20
[ ] 1 =3D Easy to follow
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D Difficult to follow
2. What about the number of emails posted to PEMVnet? (Put an 'X' beside
your answer.)=20
[ ] 1 =3D too many
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D not enough
3. Have you contributed to the discussion? (Put an 'X' beside your =
answer.)
[ ] Yes once
[ ] Yes more than once
[ ] Frequently=20
[ ] No
4. If your answer is no, what best explains your reasons for not
contributing? (Put an 'X' by the statement(s) that apply.)
[ ] Prefer to simply monitor the discussions without contributing
[ ] Do not have enough time to contribute
[ ] Do not feel I have anything to contribute
[ ] Feel my comments may not be welcome on the discussion list
[ ] Find the discussions are not relevant to my work
[ ] Other (please explain):=20
5. Have you read the overview papers distributed via email at the =
beginning
of each discussion? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)=20
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
If no, why not? =20
6. Have you read the case studies or longer papers on the "Online
Discussions" web page? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)
[ ] Yes
[ ] Some=20
[ ] No
If no, why not?=20
7. Have you directly corresponded with other PEMVnet members as a result =
of
this discussion series? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
8. Which tools and resources have you used on the website?
(www.endabuse.org/bpi) (Put an 'X' by those that apply.)
[ ] The discussion archive
[ ] The resources page
[ ] The online discussions page
[ ] The links to partner organizations page
[ ] The community database
[ ] None=20
[ ] Other (please specify):
9. Please add any other comments regarding the discussion list or =
webpage. =20
Section Two - Learning and next steps=20
1. What did you expect from the online discussion series? (Put an 'X' by =
the
statement(s) that apply.)
[ ] To share experiences
[ ] To make connections
[ ] To gain information about lessons learned and good practices
[ ] To provide information about lessons learned and good practices=20
[ ] To develop new theoretical frameworks for practice
[ ] Other (please specify):
2. How relevant have the papers and discussions been to your work? (Put =
a
'X' beside your answer.)=20
[ ] 1 =3D extremely relevant
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D not at all relevant
3. What are related topics that you would like to see discussed in the
future? =20
4. To what extent has your attitude changed regarding working with men =
to
end violence? (Put an 'X' by those that apply.)
[ ] changed to the point where I am thinking of ways to work with men=20
[ ] stayed the same, in that I was already working with men
[ ] stayed the same, in that I am dubious of working with men
[ ] Other (please explain):
5. To what extent has your knowledge regarding working with men and boys =
to
end men's violence increased? (Put an 'X' by your answer.)
[ ] 1=3D increased substantially
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D not at all =20
6. Have you learned of practices or lessons that you may apply to your =
work?
If yes, please explain.
7. What next steps would you like to see as a result of this initiative?
8. Please provide us with any other comments/suggestions.=20
Section Three - You and/or your organization
1. What is the name of the organization for which you work (or are you
participating as an individual)?=20
2. What type of organization do you work for (or what type of work do =
you
do)?=20
3. In the past, to what extent have you been in contact with groups or
individuals who work with men or boys to prevent men's violence? (Put an =
'X'
by those that apply.)
[ ] no contact
[ ] some contact
[ ] substantial contact=20
[ ] I work/have worked with men or boys to prevent men's violence=20
4. What is your gender? =20
5. Where are you located (City, State/province, Country)?
=20
6. What is your age? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)
[ ] 18 and under
[ ] 19 - 29=20
[ ] 30 - 44
[ ] 45 - 59
[ ] 60 and over=20
Thank you for filling out this questionnaire. Please send the completed
form to: bpi-moderator@endabuse.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 15:33:43 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:33:43 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Some thoughts and a poem from South Africa (from Helen Moffett)
Message-ID: <000d01c347c1$d0d24fd0$8d6e510c@jimmy88>
Many thanks to all for the postings and discussion on all the topics.
I've been reading everything with interest, but haven't felt qualified =
to
comment on topics such as domestic violence and responsible fatherhood, =
as
my research is on rape (and how it is entangled with race) in South =
Africa.
Another reason I've been a silent participant is because while we are =
all
struggling with similar issues, the structures (programs, court-ordered
interventions, coalitions, non-profit organizations) in place in North
America are so very different to what we see here. In the first place, =
they
exist! It's clear they're under-funded and under attack, but at least =
there
is some sort of network to plug into. We're still building ours. There =
is a
Men's Movement against violence here, but it tends to be associated with
highly traditional, even conservative values -- men as the strong =
protectors
of the little woman at home, etc.
Anyway, one theme that has emerged from all these postings is that men =
often
feel alienated from efforts to address men's violence because of the
awkwardness of feeling that they are being asked to be the solution at =
the
same time as they are the problem. Also, given that we're discussing how =
to
reach young men at present, and the arts are such a powerful way of
communicating (esp. in schools), I'd like to share a poem with everyone. =
It
was written by a gifted Cape Town poet in response to the horrific rape =
of a
nine-month-old baby girl late in 2001, which made headlines all over =
South
Africa. She has given permission for me to post it here, and it is for =
all
of you, to say thank-you for working on the side of the angels.=20
To the doctor who treated the raped baby and who felt such despair
I just wanted to say on behalf of us all
that on the night in question
there was a light on in the hall
for a nervous little sleeper
and when the bleeding baby was admitted to your care
faraway a Karoo shepherd crooned a ramkiekie lullaby in the veld
and while you staunched
there was space on a mother-warmed sheet
for a night walker
and when you administered an infant-sized opiate
there were luxuriant dark nipples
for fist-clenching babies
and when you called for more blood
a bleary-eyed uncle got up to make a feed
and while you stitched
there was another chapter of a favourite story
and while you cleaned
a grandpa's thin legs walked up and down for a colicky crier
and when you finally stood exhausted at the end of her cot
and asked "Where is God?"
a father sat watch.
And for the rest of us, we all slept in trust
that you would do what you did,
that you could do what you did.
We slept in trust that you lived.
Finuala Dowling
[Karoo =3D rural semi-desert area in SA; ramkiekie =3D home-made guitar;
veld =3D grassy plain]
For permission to publish/use in your materials, please write to Finuala
c/o Carapace Poets, 30 Firfield Road, Plumstead, 7800, South Africa.
Helen Moffett
African Gender Institute
University of Cape Town
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 15:46:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:46:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: How do we get more parents educated? (from Barri Rosenbluth)
Message-ID: <001f01c347c3$9b278880$8d6e510c@jimmy88>
Greetings,
As one of the authors of this piece I would like to follow up on Joy
Hoffman's concern about what parents are teaching kids about =
relationships
and leave you with a challenge concerning school culture change.=20
First let's consider what children are learning by example in their =
homes.
With rates of child abuse and domestic violence as high as they are we =
can
assume that significant numbers of children are learning that it is =
normal
to hurt and be hurt by someone they love. Even well-intentioned parents =
in
my opinion send this dangerous message when they use hurtful language,
physical discipline or allow siblings to mistreat one another. Parents =
need
education to help them understand the impact of their own behavior on =
their
children's ability to have healthy relationships with others. =20
Many parents are concerned about hurtful teasing and bullying and want =
to
learn how they can help their children. Some of the traditional =
responses
to these behaviors are now considered ineffective such as simply telling
children to ignore the bullying or to stand up for themselves. Some =
parents
continue to hold tight to the belief that standing up to a bully will
prevent further intimidation. While these methods may work for some kids =
in
some situations, we now know they can also result in greater harm and
desperation for others. There has been tremendous enthusiasm for =
bullying
prevention among parents in Austin, Texas. Parents and other community
members have become strong advocates, urging schools to adopt policies,
curriculum, training, counseling and other activities to stop and =
prevent
bullying, sexual harassment and dating violence.=20
To reach the greatest number of parents, sessions at school should be
offered at different times during the day and evening. We also publish =
a
quarterly newsletter in English and Spanish with helpful tips for =
parents
such as how to help a child who is being bullied, handling sibling =
bullying,
and talking to teenagers about dating relationships. This newsletter, =
"Safe
Lessons", also provides information about community resources for =
families
experiencing sexual and domestic violence. Our school district =
distributes
the newsletters by sending them home with students and giving them to =
school
personnel at participating schools. Copies can be viewed on the =
SafePlace
website at www.austin-safeplace.org.
What can we do in schools? We must begin in the early grades to help
children establish expectations and skills for healthy relationships and
continue to address the health and safety issues youth face in their =
current
relationships as they mature. There are lessons to learn beginning in
Kindergarten about how to make friends, how to share your friends with
others, and how to end a friendship that is no longer satisfying. As Joy
mentioned, issues of consent, communication, and boundaries are =
important as
students begin dating or having intimate relationships.
One of the most important lessons I believe schools can teach is the
importance of becoming a "courageous bystander." Introduced in =
"Bullyproof:
A Teacher's Guide on Teasing and Bullying" for use with Fourth and Fifth
Grade Students by Nan Stein and colleagues at the Wellesley College =
Center
for Research on Women, this term is used to describe the act of speaking =
up
for or getting help for someone who is being bullied, sexually harassed =
or
otherwise mistreated. Courageous bystanders increase school safety, =
change
social norms and help create a culture of respect and inclusion. A =
school
culture that promotes safety and respect also teaches students to expect
those same values in their peer and ultimately their dating =
relationships.=20
My challenge to you, seminar participants, is to identify what has to =
change
or be in place on a campus in order for more students, particularly =
young
men, to become courageous bystanders. What do administrators, teachers,
parents, students or other stakeholders have to do differently to =
encourage
and support a change in school culture?
Your responses to this or other issues are welcome and appreciated.=20
Barri Rosenbluth=20
SafePlace, Austin, Texas
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 16:55:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:55:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Prevention and Schools (from Rebecca Cline)
Message-ID: <003101c347cd$2f5bd0c0$8d6e510c@jimmy88>
This has been an excellent discussion that has really had me see what is
missing in many of the programs I have had direct experience with. In =
my
past employment as an Education Coordinator for a Domestic Violence =
Program
I was frequently asked to come and speak to a classroom of students =
about
dating and domestic violence. These were frequently mixed gender =
courses
and as a middle aged white woman in an urban school setting, well, the
presentations frequently went over like a lead balloon, despite my best
efforts at engaging the young people in interactive discussions, etc.
Eventually, we began working with Americorp Volunteers who where between =
the
ages 18 and 25. We did a lot of work on the front end training the
volunteers about domestic violence and sexual assault as well as related
issues and then they went into the schools. Many schools in the
metropolitan area did not respond to attempts gain access, mostly =
suburban
schools. Interestingly, the schools that continued to invite the =
volunteers
back were urban and inner-ring suburban school with the most ethnically
diverse populations.
If there was a down side to this type of partnership: schools, =
Americorps,
and DV programs, it was in integrating the project in the schools. The
volunteers would go into a school, do the best they could with very =
little
support from the school (often the teacher would leave the classroom =
during
the time the Americorps volunteers were there). We were never able to
accomplish teacher training let alone parent education. Most of the =
schools
we were in probably did not have a policy or protocol on dating =
violence.
Even with these limitations, there were many students who benefited from =
the
discussion. Students who had the opportunity for the first time to =
discuss
issues of healthy relationships and hear from someone close to their own =
age
about what constitutes a healthy relationship and how to help someone =
who is
in trouble in an unhealthy relationship.
In other venues, I worked with multiple community partners to educate
students about dating and domestic violence. I noticed that I became =
very
uncomfortable with some of the facilitators who used their power and =
control
to get the students to do what they wanted them to do. Frequently there
would be two white male middle aged facilitators working with a group of
young African American males which may or may not work. I even heard =
one
of the facilitators say, "We have to be careful what we say. We don't =
want
to make them become better batterers." And this was supposed to be
prevention! =20
Such are the joys and frustrations of this exciting work. =20
Most importantly, I have become aware of new ideas that will definitely
impact my work in a positive way and I thank all of you who have made
contributions to this dialogue as well as those of you who authored =
papers
that were presented. It has been rich and nourishing.
Rebecca Cline
Ohio Domestic Violence Network
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 17:19:36 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:19:36 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: poem from Helen Moffett (From Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <004601c347d0$9b0dd310$8d6e510c@jimmy88>
Does art like this, however powerful, work as a part of our outreach and
education efforts? Or does it resonate most with those of us already =
aware?
and particularly in working with boys and men, does poetry put them off
because it's too traditionally feminine?
Kelly Anderson
Rape Crisis Center
Madison, WI USA
RCCDirector@tds.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 17:23:17 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:23:17 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Working with teens regarding healthy relationships (from Frank Feuille)
Message-ID: <004c01c347d1$1f217850$8d6e510c@jimmy88>
Having worked with adult domestic violence offenders before coming to =
work
with Juveniles in the Justice System here in Oregon, I began to realize =
that
no services were available here to teens who were brought up in violent
family situations. Plus I believe that adolescence may be a better time =
to
address these issues before they become established in their lives. We =
also
noticed from our data gathering over the years that over 40 % of youth
assessed at our Juvenile Department Intake since 10/98 have reported
histories of exposure to family violence. I decided to develop a =
treatment
curriculum.
In addition, some of our youth had begun to act out their experience by
committing family violence offenses which are now a significant =
percentage
of our referrals for assault, harassment, and menacing for juveniles. =
Here
in Eugene, Oregon we had an excellent anger management curriculum but =
that
did not quite meet all the needs of these youth. So I developed a =
treatment
curriculum patterned after a program in San Francisco, and The Youth
Relationships Project in Canada, all of which produced a program we call =
the
WITNESSES(to DV) group several years ago.=20
In 2001 in conjunction with a local counseling agency, we initiated a 26
week program involving weekly groups of 1 =BD hours addressing =
relationship
violence issues. This group is limited to 10 members and is for =
adjudicated
youth or youth on informal probation. Typically the population we work =
with
are the more serious and troubled youth who have charges of assault,
harassment, or menacing plus dating harassment or violence.
The curriculum focus includes:
=B7 Understand Power and control issues
=B7 Media impact on societal norm of violence
=B7 Addressing bullying behavior
=B7 Dating violence
=B7 Socialization issues - man in a box, woman in a box
=B7 Male/female role stereotypes
=B7 Domestic violence myths/facts
. Address Sexism
. Anger management/violence prevention
. Understand and identify Feeling (core hurts)
. Understand and improve Communication styles
. Develop Empathy
. Define healthy relationship
. Relapse prevention
. Take responsibility for their actions
Our first group consisted of seven boys ranging in age from 13 to 16, =
all of
which completed the six month program and graduated with parents =
attending
the graduation ceremony. None of the seven have reoffended (this type =
of
offense) as of this writing. =20
This group continues and in 2002, we tried an approach which included a
mixed group of half boys and half girls. We were very careful to make =
sure
that no relationship existed between the participants before the group =
and
that an extensive intake interview with parents indicated that =
participation
in the group would not re traumatize any of the girls. We were also =
clear
that one of the rules was no dating was allowed between group members =
during
the group. =20
This turned out to be a very productive mix since the main focus is on
healthy relationships between males and females. This mix allowed for =
the
humanizing of each other, resulting in empathy development on the part =
of
the boys towards the girls, and less demonizing on the part of the girls
towards the boys.
As a 1998 report to the Oregon Governor's Council on Domestic Violence
recommends: Educate young people about domestic violence to address the
increased risk for teens and young adults, as well as the long-term
consequences of witnessing domestic violence.
Other interesting comments regarding this age group include the EMERGE
project in Boston which reports: "The adolescent offender often does =
not
have a sophisticated system of denial in place. They tend to be more =
honest
about their behavior. Teen perpetrators appear to be open to change and =
are
open to alternative behaviors. Modeling of respectful behavior on the =
part
of male facilitators seems to have a profound effect. (Sousa and =
Cooper,
1997). Please see: www.emergedv.com
Also in 1989 a conference of 20 experts in the field hosted by the =
Institute
for the Prevention of Child Abuse in Toronto, Canada concluded that the =
best
windows of opportunity for intervention are adolescence, during =
pregnancy
and postnatal childcare.=20
We also have an agency in town which does educational presentations in =
the
schools mainly to middle school age students regarding domestic =
violence.
This program has also been very successful.
Finally, I feel that it is critical to address these issues at as early =
an
age as possible in order to avoid the continuation of these learned
behaviors in adulthood.=20
Frank Feuille
Department of Youth Services
Lane County
Eugene Oregon.=20
=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 19:06:35 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:06:35 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Courageous Bystanders - Response to Barri Rosenbluth (from Joy Hoffman)
Message-ID: <006601c347df$8d137e90$8d6e510c@jimmy88>
In response to Barri's challenge to create a campus climate with =
courageous
bystanders - you will first have to decide on your campus what actions =
need
to be identified, and make sure that the community understands why, and =
how
to identify and/or report behavior. Campuses that have sexual assault
policies may actually limit themselves if the behaviors in their policy =
are
ill-defined or do not encompass a variety of behaviors.
For example, most sexual assault policies define the "obvious" behaviors
that are identified as sexually assaulting - coercion, manipulation,
harassment, assault, rape, and the like. I would be interested in how =
many
policies include behaviors that are related to sexism - whether they are
blonde jokes, name calling, devaluing comments, etc... I am sure that =
many
sexual harassment policies may include these things - often under a =
section
that describes verbal harassment or hostile environments. I would =
suggest
that sexual harassment and sexual assault policies be intertwined, as =
sexual
harassment and assault may often occur simultaneously.
Perhaps your campus has already thought of this - excellent. But for =
those
who have not, might you consider it?
Further, do we train and instruct our students about harassment and =
assault
outside of the "obvious" behaviors? What I mean is, are they taught to =
look
for red flags BEFORE harassment and assault occur - the controlling
boyfriend who does not allow his girlfriend to have other male friends, =
or
tells her what to wear, what to eat, etc., name calling, sexual jokes,
sexist jokes, or any comments that are degrading or reflect control =
issues.
We often do a great job at defining assault, rape, or harassment, but do =
not
touch on the things that lead to those behaviors. For the same reason =
that
hate speech may often lead to hate crime, I would suggest that sexist
remarks may also lead to sexual crime. Behavior often reflects =
attitude.
One of the things I am adamant about in my office is holding individuals
accountable for any jokes that marginalize another group of people. "I =
was
just kidding" or "It's just a joke" is often the response, but I remind =
them
that individuals are harmed by such comments because it limits them and
their personal identity. This encompasses a wide range of jokes related =
to
race, gender, sexual orientation, etc... even "blonde jokes." I know it =
may
seem overly sensitive, but I believe that our society, communities, =
schools,
families, and friends nurture us to believe that belittling others is =
okay -
as long as it's "just a joke." However, for some, it ends up going =
beyond
the jokes and filters into daily behavior, attitude, and treatment of
others.
I would encourage "courageous bystanders" to not only look for the =
obvious
behaviors, but also hold individuals accountable for the more subtle =
forms
of behavior as well. If we can build campuses that have a climate of =
mutual
respect, then perhaps that respect will filter into other behaviors as =
well.
Perhaps I am too idealistic? But hey, I'm going to dream big. Somehow, =
one
person at a time, we can make positive change.
Joy Hoffman
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 20:10:20 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:10:20 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] On peers and using the arts for prevention (from Ray Hughes)
Message-ID: <000701c347e8$755c16a0$7f6c510c@jimmy88>
Kelly wonders if poetry is an effective medium to engage boys in =
violence
prevention. I have worked as a high school classroom teacher for 24 =
years
and have integrated violence prevention into the curriculum since 1986. =
A
great deal of my work has been educating students about violence against
women/girls, preventing violence, healthy relationships and how peers =
can
help peers prevent/end violence.
Using the arts as the catalyst to discuss the topics and in particular, =
to
engage the boys, has been the key ingredient to our success. Obviously, =
it
is important that we don't rely on one strategy-poetry, music, drama, =
dance,
etc should all be used. In fact, we have even had a teacher/playwrite =
write
a musical called "Locker City" which focuses on the topic of dating
violence. When a comprehensive approach is embraced and
teachers/administrators and students are empowered to contribute to
solutions (by writing short stories, plays, songs, poetry, etc) it is
amazing the level of "by-in" by stakeholders.
I also agree with Rebecca's point about using peers as much as possible =
as
both role models and as advocates. When properly trained, high school
students can have a significant impact on younger students and their =
peers
and we have used college students quite effectively with high school
students. I'm well aware that many community partners are frustrated =
with
the roadblocks that they encounter when they try to access schools.
However, I encourage you to be persistent and suggest that you develop a
strong engaging presentation which challenges students to search for
solutions! Every school has receptive teachers--start with one class at =
a
time.=20
Schools are to the key to prevention!
Ray Hughes
Learning Coordinator - Violence Prevention
r.hughes@tvdsb.on.ca
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 11 20:34:57 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:34:57 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and schools (from Martin Dufresne)
Message-ID: <001901c347eb$e584fb10$7f6c510c@jimmy88>
Rebecca Cline wrote:
..."I even heard one of the facilitators say, "We have to be careful =
what we
say. We don't want to make them become better batterers." And this was
supposed to be prevention!"...
Well... I think they just may have been addressing a very real risk.
We tend to think that telling abusers or people at risk of becoming =
abusers
the truth about male privilege and power& control issues is necessarily
prevention, But doesn't this stem from a more or less explicit belief =
that
the whole issue is some kind of misunderstanding between genders and =
that
exposing power will somehow make it disappear?
It makes sense to me to direct different messages to members of =
oppressed
and of oppressor groups and to be very careful about possible =
consequences.
It *has* been amply documented that some batterers do become better
batterers once they get, in prevention programs, the support and =
vocabulary
that their victims don't have access to, for instance, when they start =
using
"time outs" on them as part of their psychological violence.
Another example would be discussion of "date rape" drugs. Information =
given
about this to groups of young men will not necessarily make *all* of =
them
roll their eyes in disgust and swear to never use anything like that =
against
women. A more effective prevention politic would be systematic sting
operations to nail sellers for good in campus bars.
We need a strategy, one accountable to victim support services, to avoid
compounding out of naivet=E9 a system already badly weighted against =
women.
Martin Dufresne
Montreal men Against Sexism
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 14 15:52:02 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:52:02 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Comments on the discussion (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <002101c34a1f$dedf65d0$884f510c@jimmy88>
Many thanks for all of the thoughtful responses to this discussion so =
far. I
would like to take up two points that have been raised and respond to =
them
further.
First, a number of comments have addressed what I think are cultural =
issues
in providing services. Joy raises the issue of religiously oriented
institutions and I agree that we have a responsibility to frame the =
issue in
a way that is sensitive to their values framework, in this case (as Joy
recommends) by talking about healthy relationships as an entry point =
into a
discussion of what is unhealthy in a relationship. All of our programs =
need
to be adapted to the context of the community and the channels of =
leadership
within them. Martin raises a similar point in asking about "separate
messages for members of oppressed and oppressor groups". I have found =
that
separate gender groups can be very powerful because they can address the
different aspects of the issue that are appropriate to each gender, and =
also
help men to hold men accountable to other men.
I also agree that violence is certainly not a matter of =
mis-communication
and that to say so is a form of blaming the victim. In my workshops with =
men
we explore whether "both people are equally free to act" as an entry =
point
into discussing the issues of power and privilege.
Second, the role of the "courageous bystander" has been mentioned many =
times
as one of the critical elements of a successful program. What is often
overlooked is that many bystanders are uncomfortable with the behavior =
they
witness - sexual harassment or violence - but do not act because they =
think
that others are not also uncomfortable. Thus, one effective prevention
strategy that I outline in the social norms case study of this paper is =
to
reveal to the silent bystander majority that they are not alone in their
discomfort. This can encourage individuals to know that they will have
allies if they take action and can also normalize intervention and/or
reporting as a component of a healthy culture.
Finally, I would like to encourage any of the readers who haven't looked =
at
the case studies to check them out. They provide excellent answers to =
the
questions Joy raises in her first post about what schools are doing and =
how
they do it.
Sincerely,
Alan Berkowitz
Independent Consultant
alan@fltg.net
www.alanberkowitz.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 14 15:53:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:53:00 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Use of Batterer (from Ivan Wilson)
Message-ID: <002201c34a20$018c0bb0$884f510c@jimmy88>
I thank the members of the pemv exploration for the extreme privilege of
travelling with you in these few days. Through all the authors and
contributors who have invited me into part of your thought I have been
enriched, probably mostly by clarifying my own thought patterns. And now =
I
presume to trespass on one of the deep parts of the thought patterns of =
some
of us. I ask "Are we wise to allow ourselves to use the word 'Batterer' =
or
should we speak and think of those who 'Use violence'?
I suggest that when we use 'Batterer' we think of a different kind of =
person
from me, myself. When we use the alternative, I suggest that we, =
ourselves,
join the total group. I think that I have never met anyone who has not =
used
violence nor anyone who, when I know them well, will not speak of evil
things that they have considered and done. Rarely was it rape, murder =
within
the clan, or those worse actions of which we are too ashamed to speak, =
but
the effect was some limitation of the creative possibilities of another.
Moreover, each person with whom I become closely acquainted abhors the
effects that resulted. When we use the thought forms connected with
'Batterer', we restrict ourselves to forms of violence that are close to
physical, and in the process we restrict ourselves to damage that is
identifiable but often less in effect than other forms. Some =
contributors
have made the same point very powerfully.
The change that I ask is massive in practice. I would never expect that =
we
all make the change nor all at the same time. There are those for =
instance,
whose identity depends on keeping their current view of their function.
However, the immediate difference that I observe as we change our
conceptualising is that many people amongst whom we work, as clients and =
as
colleagues, make identifiable positive change and continue to change for =
as
long as we encounter them. Ten years ago I met a man who was troubled =
that
he was hitting his 10-year old son and wished not to do so. Two weeks =
ago he
received the highest award of his service club in recognition of his
consistent encouraging work for members of the club, the whole community =
and
his family. That award was accompanied by wholehearted commendation from =
his
children, his wife and many others. His journey is not over by a long =
way,
but he is far from belonging in the garbage dump that he thought he
inhabited. A recurrent theme that emerges is that those who have =
suffered
violence in early years normally have very deep fear that they will =
practise
it as badly, or worse. The changed situation opens conversation about =
that
also.
I invite comparison with other areas of work. I taught University =
Chemistry
for 40 years and persistently found that those classes that were =
labelled as
'poor' achieved poorly and those labelled 'good' did well. Elementary
statistics make it unlikely that those differences between the students =
were
real. Every new high school that I have known has had a first intake of
students that achieved highly, not only then but throughout subsequent =
life.
A new school simply cannot afford to think poorly of its students!
Throughout education when respectfully practised there has been related
discovery. And the change from thinking of a child as 'disabled' to a =
child
who 'has a disability' is no less thought changing and enabling for =
child,
parents and grandparents.
I, and many in my State, owe deep gratitude to women, mostly with =
'hands-on'
experience in Women's Refuge centres, who vigorously maintained the view
that those who have used any form of family violence are simply those =
who
have used violence, and no more. The women persisted in expecting =
positive
change, neither demonising others nor idealising themselves. Just as our
public gatherings now frequently begin with thankfulness to the =
Indigenous
people who cared for our land for 40,000 years, so I end with expressing =
my
deep gratitude to these women and their mothers who have cared for =
people
for thousands of generations. Long may their work grow.
Ivan Wilson.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 14 16:02:59 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:02:59 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Importance of healing in prevention work (from Buck Buchanan)
Message-ID: <002701c34a21$6695dee0$884f510c@jimmy88>
Recently, I have seen a few references on PEMVNet to boys and men and =
their
feelings. Examples are: "A critical component of violence prevention
programs for males is the opportunity to honestly share feelings and
concerns." in Berkowitz et al and "Understand and identify feelings =
(core
hurts)," part of a curriculum on relationship violence presented by
respondent Frank Feuille. While these efforts are essential, and while I
suspect that far more attention is paid to male feelings among dialogue
participants than our writings suggest, I would like to underscore the
importance of this work and encourage us to create even more space for
feelings in men's work.
At the risk of exaggerating to make a point, I would say that, without =
good
access to their feelings, men are emotionally stranded. Everyone knows =
it
starts with "Big boys don't cry." That and every other tenet of
"masculinity" is brutally imposed and enforced by ostracism, =
humiliation,
and beatings. Most boys, quite sensibly, decide to largely deny their
feelings and numb out. The consequence that concerns us in these =
discussions
is this: Deprive a boy of his feelings and he can be steered by social
pressure into behaviors that don't make sense, such as violence and =
sexual
abuse. In his heart, of course, he would know these things are wrong; =
but he
is no longer listening to his inner voice. The light on his message =
machine
is not blinking to report feelings of misgiving or shame. So he forges
ahead, unaware. He now lives, perhaps exaggerating again, mostly by =
code.
Many of the reports on PEMVNet talk about successful interventions to =
pull
boys and men back from the destructiveness of masculinity. Some start by
trying to replace one code of behavior with another: "When she says =
'No!'
you back off." This kind of reprogramming is responsible for many =
improved
or even saved lives. A second reported intervention, also effective, is =
a
foray into the world of feelings. A boy is asked what he can remember
feeling under challenging circumstances, such as when pushing a =
girlfriend
for sex. He may say, "I felt kind of embarrassed." The moderator =
replies,
"Good. Try to notice when you are feeling this way with a girl and back =
off
when you do." While positive outcomes usually require a tremendous =
effort,
they also mark the beginning of healing for boys and men.
Though we have nowhere near the resources to carry out even the most =
basic
prevention strategies, I believe that healing work needs to go much =
further
than most of us have been able to take it. For many, a major victory is =
the
pregnancy that doesn't happen, and this kind of outcome is nothing short =
of
heroic; but I know we can assist boys and men to reach for even more of
their inherent goodness. What if a boy was able to know "in his gut" =
that
sex isn't what he is really after? What if his intuition (!) told him =
that
Playboy and other forms of objectification of women are kinda stupid? =
What
if he knew in his heart that there is a zillion better reasons for =
liking a
girl, such as having fun doing homework together? These and a host of =
other
wonderfully human "What if's" are possible when we assist boys and men =
to
reclaim the full breadth and depth of their feelings.
The hurts accumulated during a boy's indoctrination into masculinity go
largely unheeded and unhealed. Men and boys have a hard time questioning =
any
of their masculine behaviors without, at some level, re-experiencing the
pain attached to them, and usually choose not to go through it alone. =
Their
unchallenged patterns just sit there, waiting to be acted out. To truly =
free
themselves from the bonds of masculinity, men and boys need to cry and =
rage
about how they have been treated, what they were required to learn, and =
what
they've done in the name of masculinity. They need to heal the wounds. I
would hope that many more of us could find small pockets of opportunity =
in
our crowded programs, invest some of our scarce dollars in a few boxes =
of
tissues, and go for it!=20
Buck Buchanan
National Coalition Building Institute Men's Caucus
Buck11145@aol.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 14 19:34:57 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:34:57 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] A response to Buck Buchanan (from Joy Hoffman)
Message-ID: <000501c34a3f$0304b0e0$215a510c@jimmy88>
Thank you for being intentional about helping young boys and men "get in
touch" with their emotional side! Further, thank you for helping them =
see
that it is not only acceptable, but normal.
I strongly suggest that it is not only important to implement solid =
programs
at our organizations that deconstruct gender roles, but in our homes as
well. We may already be intentional about this, but to what extent? =
Does
our behavior align with what we tell our children, family, or friends?
For example, my husband may tell my son that it is okay to cry, but how
often does my son see him cry? My daughter may be told that a woman =
does
not find her self worth in a man, but what do most of the Disney =
princess
movies tell her? I have not banned these movies from our collection, =
but we
have intentional dialogue with our children concerning gender roles and =
the
messages they are receiving from the movies they watch. Even the =
children's
books we read are often from one perspective. My husband and I have to
search for books that have a healthy balance of people from different =
ethnic
backgrounds, abilities, gender roles, sexual orientation, etc... If the
balance is not there, we add it into the story while we are reading. If =
the
search is difficult for us as parents, and we are intentional about it, =
what
happens when they are limited in the classroom to the books they are =
reading
or the texts they are studying (if the teacher or school is not
intentional)?
It is something that concerns me, as my daughter will begin kindergarten
this fall. Even last year, in the Christmas pageant, not one girl was a
shepherd, and not one boy was an angel. What is that teaching her? It
starts so young, and I feel as a parent, I am starting over every time =
she
comes home from school... how do we get schools "on board" to make sure =
that
they are not forcing gender roles on our children and unintentionally =
(or
intentionally) teaching them what boys look like and what girls look =
like,
and how boys should act/girls should act?
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 14 20:28:07 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:28:07 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] PeaceWorks - a school-wide year-long conflict resolution program (from Julia Thornburg)
Message-ID: <001501c34a46$6ff66250$215a510c@jimmy88>
I have read with great interest the many thoughts and responses in these
discussions. It is refreshing and motivating to be reminded that there =
are
many programs and efforts being undertaken through many agencies/groups =
to
address this need.
I could not agree more with Barri Rosenbluth's comments on the need to
"begin in the early grades to help children establish expectations and
skills for healthy relationships and continue to address the health and
safety issues youth face in their current relationships as they mature.
There are lessons to learn beginning in Kindergarten about how to make
friends, how to share your friends with others, and how to end a =
friendship
that is no longer satisfying." Several responses have mentioned the =
need
for programming with young children and the need for programs through
schools.=20
It is in response to these thoughts that I add my contribution. =
Although
there are many challenges and we continue to adapt the program as =
needed, I
am excited to tell you about PeaceWorks, an expanding school-wide =
conflict
resolution program that is taught year round as a part of the curriculum =
in
grade schools (K-8) in an increasing number of St. Louis inner city =
schools.
PeaceWorks serves schools in neighborhoods where the crime rate is
documented as being 3 times the national norm and 4 times the national =
norm
for violent crimes
And although I happen to be the program coordinator, I feel I can speak
highly of the program because it is the teachers and the children who =
use it
and are making it a success. I train a school's entire faculty =
including
secretaries, teachers' aides, parents, and volunteers in the conflict
resolution concepts and components which will be implemented in the =
school.
Believing that results are very limited if only some children are =
trained to
serve as peer mediators, all students participate in the weekly classes =
with
the goal being to make all children better problem solvers, better
communicators, better able to handle conflicts. The way we learn to =
handle
conflict as children sets a standard for the rest of our lives. I =
merely
offer the tools, I plant the seeds.
PeaceWorks integrates the conflict resolution methods into the year long
curricula, with students participating in sessions/classes once per week
every week for the entire school year, which is then continued each year
from grades K - 8. True, consistent behavioral change is slow.
Longitudinal data tracking conduct grades, detentions, demerits, etc. =
has
been collected for 4 years and has been showing the desired changes in
behaviors. Anecdotal data tells of the use of the skills by students
outside of the scheduled class time and reported transference of the =
skills
by students at home and in the community outside of the school setting. =
The
program incorporates a peer mediation component, believing that students =
are
responsible and can resolve many conflicts without direct adult =
intervention
and that the use of peers is a powerful tool.
Special attention is paid to the cultural biases and culture-bound
assumptions of western developed conflict resolution programs. This is
particularly important because, as have many areas nationwide, St. Louis
city has received, within a very short time period, a large number of
refugees (estimated 40, 000 from Bosnia; 2,000 from Afghanistan; Iraq;
Eritrea; the Congo; Somalia; Sierra Leone; Iran; Tadzhikstan; Vietnam; =
to
only name 10 of 40 countries represented in the city) within a very =
short
time period. And while the issue of aggression and violence is not in =
any
way connected to the arrival of these groups of people, the influx of =
these
new arrivals has created an additional challenge of addressing =
stereotypes
and misunderstandings which often lead to hostility between them and the
established residents and between the groups themselves.
I can attest to and agree with the comments that it can be difficult to
develop programs in schools, but I offer the above thoughts and comments =
to
hopefully spark an interest, offer encouragement, and prompt continued
efforts. As Ray Hughes commented, schools are a key to prevention and =
there
are receptive teachers in each school. Their enthusiasm is contagious.
Julia Thornburg, MSW, LCSW=20
PeaceWorks Program Coordinator =20
St. John's Mercy Neighborhood Ministry=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Mon Jul 14 22:44:59 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:44:59 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and Schools from Rebecca Cline (from Nicole Elick)
Message-ID: <000601c34a59$8eebf900$215a510c@jimmy88>
In reply to Rebecca Cline:
I have been in the field of education for over 10 years and i am =
currently
in the process of getting my PhD. I am also a director of an education =
and
training department that focuses on interpersonal violence. Batterers =
and
offenders can only continue to be batterers and offenders if we allow =
them
to. Providing information and exposing the cycles of violence, along =
with
the psychological make-up of sex offenders, and any other types of
information do not teach offenders and batterers to be better. What it =
does
it empowers victims and potential victims with the knowledge to see and
understand what the offender is truly about - power and control. What =
makes
batterers and offenders better is allowing them to go to these court
mandated groups that only escalates the level of violence within a
relationship and helps them learn how to mask their violence even =
further.
we cannot stop people from participating in acts of violence. But what =
we
can do is understand the mentality of the offender and try to REDUCE our
risk as much as possible.=20
I used to also work in conjunction with Probation and Parole supervising =
sex
offenders. Can i just tell you that they actually learn how to be better =
sex
offenders thru certain forms of therapy that are offered to them. When =
they
have group therapy, they continually rehash their stories and speak of =
what
i call the 4 C's: the conquering, capturing, changing and controlling of
their victim. Because what people don't understand is that all acts of
violence can be reduced to power and control. If sex offenders loved =
sex,
they would be in pornography. If batterers loved to beat, then they =
would
really be boxers or professional fighters.=20
When we begin to shed light on offenders and stop helping them (women =
and=20
children are 7x more likely to be violated in their homes and 85% of the
time the offender is someone that we know and trust) because we do help
offenders when we witness it or know it is going on and do nothing. We =
help
to perpetuate violence when we decide not to report. We perpetuate the
violence when we continue to turn a blind eye and make excuses for why =
"your
not allowed to go over Uncle Jim's" or "if mommy didn't make daddy mad =
he
wouldn't have to do this to her".=20
Lastly, may i remind you all that violence is a male and female issue. =
Men
are not only the offenders and women are not always the victims. We need =
to
understand that men are valuable allies in this fight and that we must =
not
turn a blind eye to women who are violent as well as persons in same sex
relationships.=20
If anyone would like more information, please email me at =
nicoelick@aol.com
Nicole Elick
WOAR
nicoelick@aol.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 15 00:51:46 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:51:46 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Comments on the discussion (from Carole Sousa)
Message-ID: <000c01c34a6b$44cd30c0$215a510c@jimmy88>
I want to join Alan in thanking all of you for your thoughts and
reflections. I'd like to add a few points to the discussion.
First, I absolutely agree with Joy Hoffman on the need to create =
continuity
between home and school in terms of messages our children receive on =
gender
roles and gender role stereotyping.
My response to Joy's question of, ".how do we get the schools on =
board.?" is
that in my experience parents' can yield a lot of power with schools. =
School
administrators tend to listen to the concerns of parent's. One =
suggestion I
have is to seek out other concerned parents and possibly advocate for =
the
school to dedicate a parent night to the issue of gender role =
stereotyping
in the elementary grades. An evening discussion or event of this type =
can be
a kicking off point for forming a parent/school advisory group, which =
then
can continue advocating for education and programming to address the =
issue.
Also, as we discuss different prevention strategies such as conflict
resolution, communication skills development, anti-bullying programs, =
and
assisting boys to talk about their feelings we should keep in mind that =
the
effectiveness of any prevention strategy should be measured by how well
sexism and homophobia are addressed.=20
The two main ways that young men and boys bond is around sexism and
homophobia. Acts of male on male bullying and later violence towards =
women
could not happen if the young person didn't have a sexist or homophobic
belief system established that supplied the rational for bullying and
violence that targets females or boys who defy stereotypical gender =
roles.=20
In my opinion to be effective prevention work at all grade levels should
focus on counteracting those ideologies through education and =
intervention.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 15 15:53:53 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:53:53 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Peace Works (from Rus Funk)
Message-ID: <3F142391.5010001@mencanstoprape.org>
I think the conflict resolution model has some real promise AND I have
some real concerns when applying the conflict resolution model to sexual
assault, sexual harassment, stalking and dating abuse amongst
adolescents and younger. Conflict resolution can -- when used carefully
and thoughtfully -- be used in a way that empowers abused partners (in
most cases girls and women), but more often than not instead only works
to strengthen the power and dominance of the abuser (usually boys and men).
As I said, it seems to me that there is some real promise for using
conflict res theory and skills in instances of gender-based violence --
especailly early in the dynamics of dating abuse. I'd be interested to
hear if there is anyone who knows of or has used conflict resolution
specific to dating abuse/sexual assault prevention in middle schools.
Thinking off the cuff, I would think that any kind of conflict
resolution practice that is geared towards gender-based violence would
have to one component of a larger and more comprehensive program
addressing gender based violence issues, in part to pay attention to and
ensure the safety needs of partner who is victimized, but also to ensure
accountability of the person who abuses as well as the integrity of the
overall program and message -- dating abuse, sexual harassment and
sexual assault are NOT "couple issues"; and I'd be interested in hearing
how conflict resolution might be used in a way that doesn't state,
suggest or imply that there is shared responsiblity for the abuse and
violence.
I'd be interested to hear what others think.
Rus Ervin Funk, MSW
Consultant/Activst
Louisville, KY USA
rusfunk@starpower.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 15 17:20:25 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:20:25 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Peace Works from Rus Funk (from Jeremy Simons)
Message-ID: <3F1437D9.9050004@mencanstoprape.org>
In response to Rus, conflict resolution does seem to have a place in
schools and in relational violence. I originally didn't think of the
following intervention in terms of domestic violence prevention, but as
a successful mediation.
I am involved in a mediation program at an inner city school in Denver.
I was following up on a mediation (which I had not done) involving a
relational dating conflict between a 6th-grade boy and girl. When I
asked if/what the boy learned from the mediation, he said (in his
words), "I learned a valuable lesson, not to hit girls". At first (to
my discredit) I didn't believe him because of the way he phrased it, but
he was serious. At the time, I simply chalked it up as mediation with a
positive outcome. But as I have reflected in the context of this
discussion, I thought, perhaps we prevented a young guy from the 'hood
from walking down the road to ingrained abuse and violence. It also
raises the gendered aspect of violence, that is, while this boy learned
not to hit girls, does he still think its ok to hit boys? I wish I had
asked.
On a separate but related note, there have been some posts on the use of
the term "batterer"; how some interventions don't change violent
behavior, but only "make batterer's better (at battering)"; and
especially as DV relates to conflict resolution processes like
mediation. I think a good issue this raises (and that this forum could
possibly clarify) is how violence happens at many levels and many ways,
and how different types may require certain interventions and preclude
others. Not all DV involves chronic battering, and not all chronic
abuse is necessarily physically violent. I think there are a lot of
forum participants involved in addressing violence in many ways and
levels, some of which are not appropriate to certain situations, and
better in others. When someone talks about a "perpetrator" or
"batterer", that may/may not implicitly point to certain interventions?
It seems conflict resolution and bully-proofing interventions may be
more appropriate in schools, but less so in other situations. And what
about in the criminal justice system, does one size fit all in that arena?
To sum it up, is there a tool that puts all this on a continuum and
really specifies how to discern types, levels and duration of violence
and what interventions are appropriate?
Jeremy Simons
jeremysimons@centura.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 15 20:11:18 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:11:18 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Defining the difference between conflict resolution and mediation (from Julia Thornburg)
Message-ID: <3F145FE6.7030300@mencanstoprape.org>
I could not agree with Rus Funk more, and I, too believe that there are
limitations to the use of the conflict resolution model. There are
specific adaptations of conflict resolution programs developed for use
in juvenile court and treatment settings.
I also agree with the concern that the peer mediation component of some
conflict resolution programs might be used when it is not at all
appropriate to do so. Peer mediation is intended for situations where
there is a more or less an even dispute between children or where
feelings are hurt. In such a case, both parties can usually take some
responsibility for the conflict.
When the conflict actions are based on forms of systemic oppression -
racism, sexism, homophobia, biases against people with physical
differences, religions or accents, etc. there is a power imbalance
between, in this case, the children. In these cases, there is a
distinct right and a wrong. These are not cases for mediation.
I believe that teaching conflict resolution skills to all children in a
school, for example, is appropriate and beneficial. Many of the skills
learned in conflict resolution programs are communication skills,
listening skills, assertiveness skills, and form a base for respect and
appropriate interactions between students, between teachers and
students, and between the adults in the school. These concrete skills
are beneficial to a child when an adult tells several children in a
casual manner to "go work it out."
Without some tools, the children will use the same dysfunctional, often
power-based, skills to attempt to resolve the dispute that lead them
into the conflict initially. Teaching children these skills, which are
life skills many adults have not learned, serves as one proactive way to
prevent conflict from escalating and to address problem behaviors at an
early age.
Conflict resolution programs in schools also help many teachers and
parents get past long held gender stereotypes. I frequently hear
comments such as "boys will be boys" and "all kids act that way. We did
and we turned out ok." Exposure to CR techniques helps to change this
thinking and challenges the assumptions some people have as to what
constitutes "normal" childhood behavior.
I have found that a school-wide conflict resolution program serves as a
gateway to address many of the issues discussed in this forum, such as
increasing parental involvement, the gender roles in school plays and
books a child may read in a school. Once the program is accepted by the
school, there is often more awareness of these issues and there seems to
be a means for the program coordinator to bring these matters to light
and effect change.
Julia Thornburg, MSW, LCSW
PeaceWorks Program Coordinator
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 15 20:29:09 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:29:09 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and Schools from Nicole Elick (from Karen Andrews)
Message-ID: <3F146415.8000304@mencanstoprape.org>
You are obviously right that men are not always the batterers and women
are not always the victims. But when we try to make this an equal
playing field so that no one's feelings get hurt and they won't "play",
we ignore the role of sexism as a causative factor...just as we ignore
the role of racism and sexism when we talk about youth violence.
Attitudes toward women do underly most of heterosexual domestic
violence, and I shudder whenever I hear from one of my clients that her
partner's treatment group turned in to an all-night gripe session about
women getting away with murder in the system. Gay and lesbian battering
also rely heavily on sexism and homophobia (and in some cases, racism,
classism, etc.!) to flourish. So to change this we have to address the
different ways in which we oppress groups of people in this and other
cultures.
Congratulations to the folks that are doing exactly that in schools! I
still am not sure about how I feel about the anti-bullying frenzy that
is going on in our state (Washington). When it addresses oppression like
it does in some of the programs discussed here I think that's great. But
when it becomes just another way to avoid looking at the violence
perpetrated against women and children, then I think we need to make our
voices heard.
Karen Andrews
Mount Vernon, WA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 15 21:06:54 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:06:54 -0400
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and Schools from Karen Andrews (from Sara Brammer)
Message-ID: <3F146CEE.7080408@mencanstoprape.org>
I agree with Karen, in order to avoid our batterer's group turning into
a grip session, we as facilitators imagine victim's surrounding the room
we do group in when we are doing group. Also, we stop the men when they
try to blame their partner--"They are not here to defend themselves, and
regardless of her behavior you are 100% responsible for your own behavior!"
Sara Brammer
Parkville, MO
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 00:20:33 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:20:33 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] working with schools in the rural south and abstinence education (from Katie Gillespie)
Message-ID: <002201c34b30$1319b0b0$1267510c@jimmy88>
I am both young and new to this field, so I cannot share as many =
experiences
as others have. However, I think being just out of college can add =
another
perspective to this discussion. I have enjoyed learning about the many
programs out there and the work people are doing. Yet, I am left =
thinking
how would many of these programs fare here in Alabama schools.=20
Education and prevention is my main interest in the area of sexual =
violence,
specifically the cultural constructions of sex that link sex and =
violence.
Presently I am working on research to support a master's in =
anthropology.
The main issues I want to address here are related to getting into =
school
systems in the rural South and in a state with an abstinence education =
law.=20
When I came to Alabama, I was talking with a student and volunteer for a
local sexual assault and domestic violence support agency, Turning =
Point.
She said that when she went into schools, she was not allowed to talk =
about
"rape" or "sexual assault" but only "healthy relationships." I was
surprised, and she explained that because of the abstinence law, they =
were
not allowed to talk about sex in school. Recognizing many reasons why =
this
idea is problematic, I was inspired to find out more and find out how =
things
could be changed.
Alabama is governed by an Abstinence-Only Education Law which requires =
that
if sex is taught in schools, abstinence-only-until-marriage must be =
taught
as the socially good, healthy, and correct choice for teens (these are =
words
from the state law, Title V, 1996). According to the construction of =
sex by
this law, rape is viewed as a form of sex outside of marriage and =
therefore
cannot be discussed in terms of sexual rights. A professor in Health
Education, who has done much research on teen health issues in Alabama, =
told
me that if students ask questions, teachers are permitted to answer, =
which
allows students and teachers to navigate the sex education law. Yet it
remains that there is no standard for what students will learn about =
sexual
violence in school.
Many states have abstinence education laws, and I was wondering what =
other
people have found going into schools. Certainly, a law in the books may =
not
enforced the same everywhere. There are many factors at work here in
Alabama, such as religion and "southern culture," and I cannot speak for =
the
whole state. And even between the county and city school districts here =
in
Tuscaloosa there is a marked difference in what is allowed to be said =
about
sex or AIDS. In other even more "rural" counties, people can go into the
schools and say whatever they want.=20
I agree completely that education needs to start early, and the =
construction
and socialization of respect and acceptable behavior needs to be =
supported
in all institutions, such as school, church, and family. To find my way =
into
the issue, this summer I am doing a research study, with the working =
title,
"parent-teen communication about sex: gender role ideology, =
communication
style, and education about sexual violence." One hope is that this small
project can help illuminate what children learn or do not learn at home =
and
how parents and schools could work together.
Thank you all for the ideas and information.
Katie Gillespie
Turning Point Volunteer and UA Graduate Student
gille006@bama.ua.edu
www.tvep.com
a site (under construction) for an amazing NGO supporting survivors and
educating everyone in rural South Africa, with whom I was fortunate =
enough
to get to work for 6 weeks last summer.
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 00:26:04 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:26:04 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and Schools from Karen Andrews and Sara Brammer (from Jeremy NeVilles-Sorell)
Message-ID: <002301c34b30$d8ab8a60$1267510c@jimmy88>
I just had to add to what Sara and Karen about the batterer's groups and
that is why I seriously believe that if we are going to change attitudes
groups for men should be educationally based and reserve the therapy for
another setting because it leaves the gate open for the grip session.
Also, the issues around oppression must be taught and working with youth =
to
really understand that can be challenging, especially sexism. I think =
boys
have a harder time 'cause they're coming off the junior high inferiority
complex when the girls are just as big or bigger and would beat-up on =
them
(I'm not entirely serious here). But really, I once did a youth group =
that
ended up being all girls between the ages of 9 - 14 and they all knew =
the
difference that gender makes. Although they didn't have the exact words =
to
identify it as sexism they did say the boys get away with a lot more, =
they
get all the attention, and special treatment - especially when they were
involved in sports. One of the older girls even talked about not =
wanting
kids so she wouldn't have to listen to a man and wanting to be a drug =
dealer
so nobody could tell her what to do. Now if I had a group of boys that =
same
age would they ever have that type of conversation? Probably not. I =
think
that is how male privilege plays itself out in that for boys it's taken =
for
granted that things like sports are there for them or violence gets =
accepted
as that's just boy stuff. Sure its challenging to convey the message
sometimes but please lets keep it real because America is not equality,
liberty, and justice for all as our education system's idealism likes to
perpetuate (and we all know schools are a shining example of =
non-oppressive
institutions). The American Dream was build upon the backs of =
immigrants,
slaves, indigenous people, the poor, and the exploited by using =
oppressive
tactics and that is why we have racism, classism, sexism, etc., and I =
really
agree with Karen here that it not a equal playing field and we would be
co-opting our collective efforts to address human rights issues across =
the
board by treating it as such.
We need to teach our kids to be aware of these issues and give them the
tools to help change it.
Thanks,
Jeremy NeVilles-Sorell
Mending the Sacred Hoop
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 00:35:17 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:35:17 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and Schools from Karen Andrews (from Rose Wilde)
Message-ID: <002401c34b32$225ec4f0$1267510c@jimmy88>
While I do mention sexism as a factor in domestic violence when I am in
schools, I also do a lot of care taking of the audience, not because I =
have
to, but because of my desire to have the teens listen to me first. What =
I
find is that once I have earned their trust (that I am not there to =
blame
the boys or all men for domestic violence) then I find it is easier for =
me
to discuss the issue of sexism and number of female (vs. male) victims. =
When
I have three days with the class, I generally do an exercise out of the
"Helping Teens Stop Violence" book by Allen Creighton and Paul Kivel =
(Hunter
House Publishing http://www.hunterhouse.com/showbook.asp?bid=3D86), =
which
examines the pressures of gender roles on youth. Coming from a battered
women's shelter, where I only really hear about men behaving very badly, =
it
is important that I address these students as though I would expect them =
to
be nonviolent, potentially helpful boys and girls. I find that saying
something like, "while 1 in 4 men have been found to abuse their =
partners,
that also means that 3 out of 4 can help stop the violence," can really =
help
diffuse the tension in the room. I also really encourage them to bring =
up
questions that they might not ask out of politeness (or fear). So,
sometimes I'll say "Well, I bet you all are wondering if I hate men?" I
find it is easiest to gain their trust if I bring up the difficult =
issues
right away. It also helps when I have a male volunteer with me. When =
the
young men see a man deferring to me as the "supervisor" or the one in =
charge
and showing a great deal of respect toward me, the students realize that =
I
might have something useful for them. It might not be fair, but it's =
what
works for me. What I also have discovered is that more boys are =
victimized
themselves by other boys, and suffer quite a bit for it. So, I also =
address
those issues while I am in a class, so the boys realize that I am =
advocating
for the safety of all, not just girls.
I think I finally learned this lesson when I realized that I was never =
going
to persuade anyone in my dad's conservative Christian church that they
should accept gays and lesbians, coming as an outsider, and seeing my =
dad
actually have a great deal of impact on changing some of their sexist
beliefs because he already had their trust.
I recently heard a very interesting report on a study of how male gender
role stress affects domestic violence. The presentation was "Sexism, =
Male
Gender Role Stress, and Violence," by Bonnie Robinson, PhD, LSW, of =
Chatham
College, PR (brobinson@chatham.edu for those who may want to ask follow =
up
questions about the study). In looking at the handouts, I can say that =
I
will only be able to give a snapshot of the results because of my =
limited
understanding of the statistical models, but I'll do my best. Dr. =
Robinson
studied the relationship between the Male Role Norms Scale (which =
examines a
man's beliefs about himself in the context of his male gender--how much =
does
his gender influence his ideas about what is "normal"), Masculine Gender
Role Stress Scale (how much stress is a man experiencing as a direct =
result
of his gender--for example, is he stressed about something, like being
muscular or physical, that perhaps wouldn't bother him is he were a =
woman,
the "Ambivlaent Sexism inventory", which measures sexist attitudes, and
incidents of violence, using the Revised Conflict Tactics Scale. There =
were
several different models and outcomes from this study, which I won't =
attempt
to decipher at this point, but one significant result was that man who
experience higher rates of gender role stress tend to be more frequently
violent. The study, however, only addressed physical abuse and had many
limitations.
So, what Bonnie concluded is that the impact gender socialization should =
be
discussed in school prevention programs and in batterer intervention
programs, and that feminist and "masculinist" researchers and advocates
would be well served to work together more. I think she meant that =
there
might be a way for masculinists and feminists to create a model for
deprogramming both men and women to reduce the gender role stress that =
both
genders experience.
I am afraid I couldn't capture all of the details of this interesting =
study,
but I encourage anyone who wants to follow up to contact Dr. Robinson =
(who
was an advocate and shelter director before moving into research) at =
Chatham
College.
Rose Wilde
Womenspace
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 01:34:26 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:34:26 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Prevention and Schools from Rose Wilde (from Martin Dufresne)
Message-ID: <003101c34b3a$65a22f60$1267510c@jimmy88>
Thanks Rose for a fascinating insight of your interactions with youths. It's
as if we were there in the classroom with you...;-)
One method I have found useful to diffuse the kind of tension you speak of
is to pick examples from the surrounding culture (recent films, TV shows,
sexism-related news items, etc,), so that people don't feel threatened with
exposure of their own experience of being assaulted or of assaulting.
One such item is the infamous Las Vegas 'Bambi Hunt' now getting news
coverage in the U.S.*** There is a good chance people may have been exposed
to "yuck-yuck odd news" coverage about this horrible situation, but
addressing it as something that can be related to their own options and
experiences with 'humorous' kinds of misogyny and sexist assault can act as
an ice-breaker.
***For more about this see
(http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1356380&nav=168XGqk0)and
http://www.huntingforbambi.com/
To join the pressure campaign, please contact me off-list.
Martin Dufresne
Montreal Men Against Sexism
martin@laurentides.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 01:35:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:35:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Adolescent Perpetrators (from Carole Sousa)
Message-ID: <003201c34b3a$7d88a780$1267510c@jimmy88>
Sara's comments really resonated with me. When I train future =
facilitators
of batterer's groups I tell folks that their main role as a facilitator =
is
to be a stand in for the victim and to present the victims perspective.
I have learned, however, that working with adolescent perpetrators is =
very
different from working with the adult offender. Work with adolescent
perpetrators of violence against women is done in the context of =
adolescent
health and development. That means that group work includes not only
educating the young men about problems with their behavior and helping =
them
redefine what it means to be male, but also helping the boys to become
better citizens and adults. We learned early on in our work in =
Massachusetts
that many of the boys referred to our groups and that need early
intervention have not graduated to dating violence, but are committing
domestic assault and battery against their mothers or another female, =
female
teachers are the second largest targeted group. Working with the boys =
about
their behavior at home and in school therefore becomes a priority.=20
Another unique aspect of working with adolescent boys to consider is =
that
they are less sophisticated in many cases than their adult counter =
parts.
For example, the youthful offender often doesn't have complicated =
defense
mechanisms in place yet. They'll tell the group leader what they did, =
whom
they did it to, and why that person deserved it. While on the surface =
this
honesty seems revolting it means a boys group facilitator can =
immediately
begin the work of intervention and education. We know that with adult
offenders the group facilitator may waste weeks and some times is never
successful in getting them to admit to the violence they have committed.
Also, young male offenders tend to be more open to accepting different =
ways
of viewing their behaviors and attitudes and trying on new ideas about =
how
to act. The talent of the male group leader in getting the boys to trust
them and bond with them really makes a difference with boys accepting =
new
ideas and critically examining their attitudes and behavior. This =
"bonding"
is of course seen as problematic in adult programs.
We also found that the adolescent perpetrator often has an adult in =
their
life that is victimizing them. In our groups we link every boy with a
therapist or counselor. The young men's work in group is to address and =
take
responsibility for their behavior while their work in counseling is =
about
keeping them safe and addressing depression, which a lot of the boys =
suffer
from. As adults we have the responsibility of addressing issues of abuse
with any young person we work with. Concurrently, we hope that by =
helping a
young offender deal with their own victimization we are in a sense =
disarming
their ability to use their childhood abuse experiences as an excuse for
future violence.
Finally, work with young men includes educating and working with their
parents. The Massachusetts Department of Public Health has established
specifications for developing school/community based groups for =
adolescent
perpetrators and youth at risk for dating violence. The specifications =
state
that part of the responsibility of a program interested in working with =
boys
is to sponsor a series of educational events for parents and to include =
them
in the intake process.
I'd be interested to hear about other work being done with adolescent
perpetrators of violence against women.
Carole Sousa
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 15:49:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:49:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] more comments on our discussion (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <000101c34bb1$ca57eb80$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I'd like to add a few comments to Carole's posting in response to the =
recent
discussion.
I agree that we need to differentiate adolescent perpetrators from adult
perpetrators and design our programs accordingly. In our current =
discussion
of prevention in schools we are not talking about batterers in the same
sense as we did in the earlier discussion on batterer intervention =
programs.
In addition to this developmental or age distinction, we also need to
differentiate primary, secondary and tertiary prevention from each other =
in
our work in schools. Programs like PeaceWorks that teach tools such as
conflict resolution and mediation are appropriate in a primary or =
secondary
prevention context, while they are probably not appropriate in a =
tertiary
prevention context where violence is taking place. We have heard many
examples of these strategies being used very effectively in some of the
recent postings to this list, yet I also agree with Rus and others who
caution us about using mediation in more extreme cases. As a field we =
are
becoming more sophisticated regarding which strategies are appropriate =
in
which contexts, and when they are not.
My experience is that all-male discussion groups are extremely powerful =
in
surfacing many of the underlying issues raised here. Men and boys are =
hungry
for this type of real communication with other men and boys. When there =
are
no women present we can't attribute the emotional honesty to the =
presence of
a female. Providing young men with the opportunity to have emotionally
honest and open communication with other men thus provides a =
contradiction
to our homophobia and sexism. These types of discussions make room for
feelings and bring us closer to the important healing work referenced by
Buck in his posting. They also create the safety to begin discussing the
underlying issues that have been raised here - homophobia, oppression, =
power
and control. In addition, an honest discussion will bring into the open =
the
discomfort of most males with violence and objectification of women. And
while I am committed to offering all male discussions as a powerful
prevention tool, I also acknowledge that there is also a place for
co-educational discussions, as others have attested, and we can make use =
of
both of these formats as appropriate.
Sincerely,
Alan Berkowitz
alan@fltg.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 15:52:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:52:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Tool for distinguishing kinds of violence (from Molly Dragiewicz)
Message-ID: <000201c34bb2$3824e5f0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
(Jeremy Simons asked: <"To sum it up, is there a tool that puts all this =
on
a continuum and really specifies how to discern types, levels and =
duration
of violence and what interventions are appropriate?")
Yes, there is a taxonomy for distinguishing between kinds of intimate
partner violence, from battering to situational couple violence that is =
not
part of a pattern of controlling behavior.=20
In fact, it is part of our professional and ethical responsibility to =
make
such distinctions to avoid the kinds of confusion and misinformation =
that
occur when people use tools like the CTS on samples in which there is =
almost
no battering and then making recommendations about policy, programs, and
services for battering.=20
If you have not read these articles I will send you a copy of the =
Johnson
and Ferraro or the Heise upon your request. Just email me at
mdragiew@gmu.edu=20
Johnson, M. P., & Ferraro, K. (2000). Research on Domestic Violence in =
the
1990s: Making Distinctions. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62(4),
948-963.
There are also many ecological models that can help you to conceptualize
where different forms of violence fit into the social ecology and relate =
to
one another. These models provide a visual model of the multiple =
possible
cites for prevention of all kinds of violence at the primary, secondary, =
and
tertiary levels.=20
2 good ones are:
Shamita Das Dasgupta. (2002). A Framework for Understanding Women's Use =
of
Nonlethal Violence in Intimate Relationships. Violence Against Women, =
8(11),
1364-1389.
Lori Heise. (1998). Violence Against Women: An Integrated, Ecological
Framework. Violence Against Women, 4(3).
Anyone who has questions about what kinds of DV are gendered and how =
should
read the items on my link http://mason.gmu.edu/~mdragiew/women or my =
home
page listed below.
All forms of violence are gendered by virtue of the huge sex differences =
in
prevalence and frequency and gender differences in motives and tactics. =
This
includes the fact that much male violence is about homophobia. It holds
regardless of the sex of the victim and the perpetrator. See for =
example=20
Gilligan, J. (2001). Preventing Violence.
New York: Thames and Hudson.=20
For this reason generic "bullying" programs should also always include
material on sexism and homophobia.
Molly Dragiewicz
Women's Studies and Cultural Studies
George Mason University
mdragiew@gmu.edu
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mdragiew
http://www.cavnet.org
=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 15:58:43 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:58:43 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: abstinence education from Katie Gillespie (from Nicole Elick)
Message-ID: <000401c34bb3$21e8f410$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
>From my understanding, Pennsylvania is also a "pro-abstinence" state, =
which
means that we can teach any curriculum surrounding sexual health and =
sexual
violence, but it must contain a training and discussion surrounding the
topic of abstinence. That does not mean that you can't address rape, =
sexual
harassment, etc. The abstinence piece, and rightly show, should be a =
piece
of any curriculum because we should not assume that all youth want to =
engage
in sexual activities. WE also must recognize that those students that =
feel
that way, also may not feel safe to admit to their decision to not =
engage in
sexual activities and that that is OKAY. You may want to take a closer =
look
into the Alabama law and see if it really is not the schools themselves =
who
are putting other restrictions on your trainings. For example, in some
schools we cannot talk about tampons. Is that because of the laws? No, =
its
because that school does not want us to talk about it. Right, wrong or
indifferent, they have that right. Also, we do trainings in catholic
schools. As a result, we cannot talk about birth control or abortions. =
That
is due to their constraints not the law. Also, last but not least, i =
always
stress to the schools that everything we talk about, INCLUDING RAPE, is
within the realm of the school district's policies and procedures. If =
you
need any other information or if i can be of any other help, please feel
free to contact me.=20
Nicole ELick
WOAR
nicoelick@aol.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 16:36:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:36:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Trying to make several points briefly (from Dave Mathews)
Message-ID: <000a01c34bb8$6ac6e070$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I want to recognize Julia for posting the important distinctions between
conflict resolution/mediation and addressing the "isms". I would suggest
such distinctions need to be made between domestic violence programs for =
men
and anger management programs as well.
I think in the context of schools, holding boys accountable for their
violent behaviors needs to be done by a staff person, other students and =
the
entire school community. It is not the responsibility of the victims to =
hold
the person abusing accountable for those behaviors. The community system
should contain ways to envelope the victims and overtly support them =
while
making statements as a community that these behaviors are not tolerated. =
At
the same time strategies for bringing the person who has been violent =
back
into the community must be clear and workable. This kind of "all =
community
members on the same page" thinking is what often is missed by =
instituting
conflict resolution and mediation programs. It is often missed even if =
it is
explicitly written within the curriculums to have the school community =
set
up in this way.
I have been involved with several school districts relative to creating =
a
safe school environment. Unfortunately as good as the curriculums and =
the
programs are it seems the staff and people trying to implement them tend =
to
take short cuts or believe they can skip over some critical elements of
these programs. This is not an indictment on school staff, parents or
students. I believe the reason is that most of our existing systems =
(school
districts included) have maintained their systems believing that these
systems don't need to change. It is my opinion that until something more
fundamentally changes within these systems and there is more of an =
approach
of community using restorative measures, school violence will increase
overall.
One last point:
There are some who believe there is only one way to address domestic
violence with men and boys and that is "their way." Some carry on about
their approach as the newest thing since sliced bread and theirs is the =
most
effective way to get men and boys to change. Some programs trudge on
providing services but don't believe anything works to affect change =
with
men or boys. I think there is value contained in all of these programs, =
and
these programs change many lives and benefit men and no longer potential
victims. I salute their work. I also honor those professionals who have
chosen to use non-traditional methods, innovative techniques, =
therapeutic
approaches and relationship building with men to assist them in making
choices to not act violently. It has been my experience that the best
educational groups can increase risk for the safety of the women they =
come
in contact with as well as any new and innovative approach or =
therapeutic
approach. It seems to come down to what the program is philosophically
rooted in and how it carries out best practices for working with these =
men
and boys. It is my hope that before I judge the quality or suspect the
integrity of a program, that I will first do my homework to better
understand the program and the staff who work there.=20
I want to acknowledge the courage of those who have shared so far in all =
the
forums. And lastly to those who have not felt the desire, need, =
opportunity
or safety to provide your valuable thoughts the rest of us have missed a =
lot
but hopefully these discussions have helped to know and experience that =
we
are a connected community.
With respect to all forum members
Dave Mathews
Minneapolis, MN
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 16:38:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:38:30 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: Adolescent Perpetrators from Carole Sousa (from Rus Funk)
Message-ID: <000b01c34bb8$b0a4ec90$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I share much of Ms. Sousa's perspective on working with adolescent males =
who
abuse. My work has been primarily with adolescent males who have =
sexually
offended, and, like Ms. Sousa, have found a marked difference between =
their
level of sophistication, defensiveness and that of adults. I would also =
say
that they are much more open (far from open, mind you, but MORE open) =
than
the adult men (either men who have sexually offended or men who batter) =
I've
worked with.
One of the components we put in place with our adolescent's who have
sexually offended (and I think worth exploring in other venues) is a
component of having to give back to the program and to the community.=20
Before they graduated from our program (graduation was determined by the
degree to which they changed their attitudes and beliefs not based on a =
time
limit) they were required to come with me to do presentations to males =
in
the community addressing sexism and sexist violence/abuse. In this way, =
not
only did they begin learning better (I'm a firm believer that we all =
learn
best when we begin to teach), but also were given the chance to develop =
a
sense of them Selves as different that a sense of them self as a rapist.
And, of course, they were giving back. Their experience seemed (by my
observations, the observations of the local rape crisis center with whom =
we
worked, and their own self-reporting) was to better understand the =
issues
and connections between sexism and violence; and to take another layer =
of
ownership of both their work and the need for men to do collective work =
on
these issues. It was a very powerful experience.
Unfortunately, I have learned that since I left the Center, they've lost
funding for this program. but as a model it seemed to work.
Also, like Ms. Sousa, my experience of working with the parents and =
other
adult allies of these boys-becoming-men to be very important in the =
overall
process. In many cases, it was some of the hardest work, but once we =
got
them to buy in, it made a huge difference.
Rus Ervin Funk, MSW
Louisville, KY USA
rusfunk@starpower.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 16:40:33 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:40:33 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] An idea for involving parents (from Kara Vernor)
Message-ID: <000c01c34bb8$f9f1b9a0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
First, I'd like to say that this discussion has been invaluable to me. =
Thank
you to everyone who has participated!
=20
I began trying to reach more parents by developing a program =
specifically
for parents of teens on sexual assault prevention. Unfortunately, no =
school
administrators in my area scheduled a program. A police department, =
however,
was interested in working with me to schedule the program for parents in
their district. There was some local news coverage of the event, and =
about
35 parents showed. A large part of what made the program a success was =
that
there was a party (the police) who had an inroad to the school and the =
time,
energy and commitment to help me coordinate the event.
=20
I'm presently building a teen advisory board made up of middle and high
school students. One of the requirements of being on the board is
participating in a community service project. It is my hope that some of =
the
students will choose to coordinate (and hopefully participate in) a
presentation for parents at their school. Many students have community
service requirements to fulfill in order to graduate, and they are =
looking
for a way to do that. They also have a natural inroad to the school. =
Based
on prior experience with schools, I'm guessing that teachers and
administrators will more likely warm to the presentation if students are =
the
ones asking for it. Unfortunately, I haven't put the plan into action =
yet,
so I cannot report on the results, but I'm hopeful that it will allow me =
to
reach more parents in the coming year.
=20
Kara Vernor
Sexual Assault Response Network of Central Ohio
kvernor@ohiohealth.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 17:07:47 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:07:47 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: abstinence education from Katie Gillespie (from Jennifer Margulies)
Message-ID: <002001c34bbc$c885c290$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
This is a very real challenge for violence prevention educators, and, in =
my
mind, one of the ways in which adults keep information from young people
(and then blame them for the consequences of this withholding when they =
make
dangerous decisions).=20
In my previous position as a youth antiviolence educator at a local =
family
violence program in rural central Texas, I worked in several school
districts that interpreted the state's abstinence-only education =
policies
quite strictly. Because the rural communities had so few resources for
"guest speakers," there were times when I was able to leverage =
invitations
to come do abstinence-based sex education into opportunities to engage =
young
people in discussions about sexual assault. The schools had an interest =
in
talking with young people about what the district refers to as refusal
skills, and this was often a way to start talking honestly about the
real-world pressures that young people face around sex, how gender roles
play into that for young men and young women, and what real consent =
means.
My favorite exercise we did in one co-ed classroom was around how people
said no to sex ... the young women came up with an elaborate list of =
what
were essentially excuses, and the young men were demanding why they =
didn't
just say no instead making stuff up. When I asked what happens when =
women
and girls just say no, the young women just let loose about the coercion
tactics used by men in their lives. So then we got to talk a lot about
consent and coercion and gendered imbalances of power - and about why it =
was
that none of the young men had to come up with excuses, or why it was =
that
many of them couldn't imagine saying no to sex at all.=20
Working from a popular education model, our conversations about this =
drew on
young people's experiences and opinions rather than on any presentation =
of
mine, so we were able to actually have some meaningful, youth-directed
exchanges even in settings that were very controlled by the adults in =
power
at the school.
Anyway, what generally worked for me was staying flexible and
youth-centered; knowing the issues that we were working on and =
understanding
that they are deeply connected to many aspects of young people's lives, =
and
hence there are many ways into conversation about them; and never saying =
no
to any invitation to get in the door of a school, even if they asked for =
a
program that we didn't provide (like sex ed).=20
Katie (or anyone else), please feel free to contact me off list if you'd
like to talk more about this.=20
Jennifer Margulies
Texas Council on Family Violence
P.O. Box 161810
Austin, Texas 78716
512.794.1133 x3009
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 17:43:57 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:43:57 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Reminder: Please fill out the feedback questionnaire (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <002701c34bc1$d5d17070$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Thank you to those who have already completed the Building Partnerships =
to
End Men's Violence feedback questionnaire. This is a reminder to others =
to
please fill out and send in the questionnaire by July 25th.=20
Your opinions regarding the functioning and topics covered are greatly
valued and will help shape potential next steps for this project. We =
will
also report the survey findings back to you via the discussion list in
September. Please make your opinions known. =20
The questionnaire takes about 10 minutes to complete. Your answers will =
be
kept strictly confidential. Please send the completed questionnaire =
back to
us at bpi-moderator@endabuse.org by July 25th. =20
Instructions for completing the questionnaire: =20
1) Cut and paste the questionnaire below into a new email=20
2) Fill in your answers directly in the new email =20
3) Send the email to bpi-moderator@endabuse.org by July 25th.=20
Thank you kindly in advance,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
-------
Building Partnerships to End Men's Violence
Online Discussion Series Feedback Questionnaire
Section One - The online discussion
1. How did you find the instructions for participating on PEMVnet (i.e.
registration, netiquette, frequently asked questions)? (Put an 'X' =
beside
your answer.)=20
[ ] 1 =3D Easy to follow
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D Difficult to follow
2. What about the number of emails posted to PEMVnet? (Put an 'X' beside
your answer.)=20
[ ] 1 =3D too many
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D not enough
3. Have you contributed to the discussion? (Put an 'X' beside your =
answer.)
[ ] Yes once
[ ] Yes more than once
[ ] Frequently=20
[ ] No
4. If your answer is no, what best explains your reasons for not
contributing? (Put an 'X' by the statement(s) that apply.)
[ ] Prefer to simply monitor the discussions without contributing [ ] =
Do
not have enough time to contribute [ ] Do not feel I have anything to
contribute [ ] Feel my comments may not be welcome on the discussion =
list [
] Find the discussions are not relevant to my work [ ] Other (please
explain):=20
5. Have you read the overview papers distributed via email at the =
beginning
of each discussion? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)=20
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
If no, why not? =20
6. Have you read the case studies or longer papers on the "Online
Discussions" web page? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)
[ ] Yes
[ ] Some=20
[ ] No
If no, why not?=20
7. Have you directly corresponded with other PEMVnet members as a result =
of
this discussion series? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
8. Which tools and resources have you used on the website?
(www.endabuse.org/bpi) (Put an 'X' by those that apply.)
[ ] The discussion archive
[ ] The resources page
[ ] The online discussions page
[ ] The links to partner organizations page
[ ] The community database
[ ] None=20
[ ] Other (please specify):
9. Please add any other comments regarding the discussion list or =
webpage. =20
Section Two - Learning and next steps=20
1. What did you expect from the online discussion series? (Put an 'X' by =
the
statement(s) that apply.)
[ ] To share experiences
[ ] To make connections
[ ] To gain information about lessons learned and good practices [ ] =
To
provide information about lessons learned and good practices=20
[ ] To develop new theoretical frameworks for practice
[ ] Other (please specify):
2. How relevant have the papers and discussions been to your work? (Put =
a
'X' beside your answer.)=20
[ ] 1 =3D extremely relevant
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D not at all relevant
3. What are related topics that you would like to see discussed in the
future? =20
4. To what extent has your attitude changed regarding working with men =
to
end violence? (Put an 'X' by those that apply.)
[ ] changed to the point where I am thinking of ways to work with men=20
[ ] stayed the same, in that I was already working with men
[ ] stayed the same, in that I am dubious of working with men [ ] =
Other
(please explain):
5. To what extent has your knowledge regarding working with men and boys =
to
end men's violence increased? (Put an 'X' by your answer.)
[ ] 1=3D increased substantially
[ ] 2
[ ] 3
[ ] 4
[ ] 5 =3D not at all =20
6. Have you learned of practices or lessons that you may apply to your =
work?
If yes, please explain.
7. What next steps would you like to see as a result of this initiative?
8. Please provide us with any other comments/suggestions.=20
Section Three - You and/or your organization
1. What is the name of the organization for which you work (or are you
participating as an individual)?=20
2. What type of organization do you work for (or what type of work do =
you
do)?=20
3. In the past, to what extent have you been in contact with groups or
individuals who work with men or boys to prevent men's violence? (Put an =
'X'
by those that apply.)
[ ] no contact
[ ] some contact
[ ] substantial contact=20
[ ] I work/have worked with men or boys to prevent men's violence=20
4. What is your gender? =20
5. Where are you located (City, State/province, Country)?
=20
6. What is your age? (Put an 'X' beside your answer.)
[ ] 18 and under
[ ] 19 - 29=20
[ ] 30 - 44
[ ] 45 - 59
[ ] 60 and over=20
Thank you for filling out this questionnaire. Please send the completed
form to: bpi-moderator@endabuse.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 19:35:51 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:35:51 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] boys to men retreats (from Rose Wilde)
Message-ID: <004101c34bd1$77a8b8e0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I just heard an interesting segment on Jefferson Public Radio (1280 AM =
in
Oregon) about the Boys to Men retreats that have been offered in =
southern
Oregon. While I wouldn't endorse anything I haven't researched myself, =
I
liked what I heard from the boys who had taken the weekend course and =
the
facilitators, and will describe what I heard below.
The retreat is structured as an initiation into manhood for adolescent =
boys.
A group of 50 or so young men go to a weekend workshop led by four adult =
men
with perhaps 100 adult male volunteer assistants. The radio program did =
not
reveal the specific processes used in the workshop, but described it in
general. Boys went through various different self-discovery activities,
designed to look at themselves--what's working and what's not working by
their own judgment--in a safe container for sharing their emotions. The
high numbers of adult male volunteers ensured that boys could express =
their
emotions without fear of ridicule. Also, all of the shifts the boys =
made
were a result of their own choice, not out of coercion by the adult men =
or
the other boys. Each boy was observed by one adult volunteer throughout =
the
weekend, and at the end, the adult shared all the "gold" or good acts =
and
words that the boy had done over the weekend. When the boys returned =
from
the retreat, first they reunited with their families, in a structured
exchange in which the boy expressed some ideas that he had come away =
with
(or emotions, decisions, etc) and the family members had an opportunity =
to
shared their reactions with the boy. Then, the whole group of boys =
would
have a community meeting with their families and rest of their personal
communities (teachers, friends, extended family, social service folks, =
etc).
In this meeting the adult who had watched the boy shared publicly all =
the
good things he had observed in the boy.
As follow up to the retreat and the welcoming ceremonies, the boys would
meet every two weeks in groups to continue sharing emotions and =
supporting
each other in general.
I have seen this kind of workshop for adults, for girls, but never for =
young
men. I am eager to hear more about this kind of work with boys because =
I
think it is fundamental in supporting boys to grow into emotionally
responsible, mature, healthy, full men. In contrast, I've heard some =
men
describe their role in life as "do-ers"--they make money, run the =
business,
support the family, fix things, rather than being fully emotional =
humans. I
hope that this kind of workshop will provide the guidance and practice =
that
boys need to become healthy men.
Of course, this kind of workshop can be risky--the potential for damage =
is
great because of the intensely intimate nature of the weekend. It would =
be
very important to keep the focus on individual choice. An overly =
zealous
leader of volunteer might try to pressure boys to make particular =
changes in
themselves before the boys are ready to recognize a problem. That can =
lead
to cult-like behavior and issues. From what I heard of this particular
workshop, they had not had that problem, but it is important to be aware =
of
that potential so we can avoid it.
Rose Wilde
Eugene, Oregon
youthoutreach@enddv.com
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 23:28:36 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:28:36 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] boys to men retreats (from Martin Dufresne)
Message-ID: <004f01c34bf1$fb38a1a0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I wonder why it would be necessary for boys to be put in an artificial
all-male environment to make any personal progress, especially since it =
is
well known that most of the negative pressure put on them not to show
vulnerability generally comes from other males, specially in non-mixed
environments.
There is nowadays a rather strong undertow of misogynist feeling using =
an
alleged 'plight of boys'* to paint mothers and women in general as
threatening or at least "gate-keeping" boys away from "true" progress =
and we
should be careful about it becoming acceptable using progressive guises =
and
resering for young males support that all youths are entitled to and =
that
many young women also need and are getting less and less despite huge
personal issues and hurdles.
Here is an example of this "gate-keeping" ideology, culled from a
'fatherhood program' web site.
*****************************************************************
"The Dynamics of Female Gate keeping in a Time of Male Involvement"
Involving dads with their kids and involving dads in early childhood
programs require addressing the issue of gate keeping on two related =
levels:
gate keeping by moms and gate keeping in highly female program =
environments.
The presenters discuss the dynamics of such gate keeping and strategies =
to
overcome its negative effects on father / male involvement in the family =
and
in programs. (Comment: What they call "highly female environments" =
include
day care centers and schools where most of the staff are female.)
**FLYER DISTRIBUTED AT ONE OF THEIR SCHOOL WORKSHOPS**
How females "gatekeep": shut him down; if you don't pay then you won't =
see
your child; moms volunteer dads for only certain activities; moms assume
fathers are too tired to volunteer; try to turn child away from father; =
not
involving father in family activity; lying; threats to leave or more =
child
support; abusive females; mismanagement of income; withholding =
information;
don't give father enough credit; interfering with fathers role; =
dominating
moms; single moms "sub in" fathers; control house hold; minimize father;
keeping secrets.
When females "gatekeep": when male is too rough; when male is too =
lenient;
when he lacks her type of motivation; when he's not participating; when =
we
are not pleased with him; when women want something from him;
overprotective; professionals see men as perpetrators.
Why females "gatekeep": females way is the only way things can be done;
parenting is mom's job, dad's job is to make $; moms don't want dads to =
have
working relationship with teachers.
************************************************************
Does this worry you? It does me. Truly, I see absolutely no reason why =
the
kind of growth experiences for boys described couldn't have occurred in =
a
mixed environment or with female co-facilitators.
And, in these backlash times, I think we should be challenging that =
implicit
suggestion.
Respectfully to all,
Martin Dufresne
Montreal men Against Sexism
martin@laurentides.net
*School Success by Gender: A Catalyst for Masculinist Discourse
http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/pubs/0662882857/index_e.html
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 23:30:40 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:30:40 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: boys to men retreats (from Karla Snell)
Message-ID: <005001c34bf2$45199860$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Unfortunately I have not had the time I hoped for to participate fully =
in
this discussion and hope I am not out of turn. Rose your comments on =
Boys to
Men caught my eye and I can't help adding to your message. I am a single
mother of three, I work for Head Start of Lane County and am beginning =
the
Family and Human Services program in the fall at the University of =
Oregon. I
am also a person that was involved for 5 years in a domestically violent
relationship. To counter balance some of the damage that my children
suffered because of the violent relationship I let my now 16 year old =
son
participate in Boys to Men when he was 15. Everything Rose said I agree =
with
completely...it was a safe place to express emotion and the continued =
group
meetings are a strong component. I also feel your caution statement as =
far
as not pushing the boys was right on. The one thing I would add is that =
the
activities that go on are a bit unconventional and some parents may =
balk.
Some of the exact activities are presented very generally because taken =
out
of context they sound somewhat strange. I just want folks that may be
interested in referring clients to know that at least from my =
perspective as
a mother it was a very positive experience for my son and a very safe =
one as
well. It really allowed him to get in touch with his feelings and =
express
them in a way that was very foreign to him but had a very positive =
impact. I
wish every young man had the chance to participate.
Karla Snell
Springfield OR
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 23:33:33 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:33:33 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] feelings (Chuck Derry)
Message-ID: <005301c34bf2$ac837110$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Thank you Ivan Wilson for your comments. Thank you also to all other
comments and inspirations.
I wanted to speak to Buck Buchanan's comments regarding helping boys and =
men
heal from the terrors and inconveniences of masculine enculturation. =
While I
did not "hear" this in Buck's message, I am always concerned how a
discussion about men healing from the wounds associated with our =
cultural
upbringing can and are used to excuse misogyny. (Wounded men wounding
others, etc.) I think a balance to the discussion of men's healing from
restrictive and/or abusive male socialization experiences is to
contextualize it within classist and racist systems of oppression. In =
the
context of sexism, I think it is useful to ask men how they have =
benefited
from the same structure of heterosexist stereotyping that they also =
identify
as harming them. How do the benefits of sexual stereotyping interface =
with
the negative consequences of same? How and why have men perpetuated the
traditional male stereotype? How has the benefits of sexism informed =
their
decisions? I would see these discussions as supplementing and informing, =
not
supplanting, the exploration of men's painful experiences with =
traditionally
heterosexist male culture.
In doing presentations on male socialization and violence against women, =
I
have found many young men relieved and genuinely thankful that they were
exposed to that information and always say, regardless of how old they =
are,
that they wish they had heard it at a younger age.
Thank you Jennifer Margulies for an inspirational example of group
facilitation.
Lastly, this project has helped me understand that many men are working =
on
these efforts and I appreciate knowing that. Thank you to the women who =
have
taught me with patient and gracious regard. Thank you Helen Moffett for =
the
beautiful poem. =20
Chuck Derry
genvioins@aol.com =20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Jul 16 23:58:58 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:58:58 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Important information regarding PEMVnet (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <005e01c34bf6$38f90df0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,
Next steps for the PEMVnet discussion list:=A0 =A0
This Friday, July 18th is the end of our online discussion series.=A0 =
However,
we will keep the PEMVnet discussion list semi-active until the end of =
the
year to send out periodic updates, and discuss potential next steps for =
this
project. For example, next week we will send out the summary of =
discussion
four. In September we will send out a report containing conclusions =
drawn
from the discussions and the results from our feedback questionnaire. =
=A0
We encourage you to stay a part of this discussion list and to help us
continue to work towards ending men=92s violence.=A0 However if you =
would like
to unsubscribe from the list at the end of this discussion please follow =
the
instructions for unsubscribing at the bottom of the web page here:=A0
http://www.communityforum.net/mailman/listinfo/pemv-net
You may also contact us at bpi-moderator@endabuse.org to unsubscribe.
Otherwise, you will automatically remain on the discussion list to =
receive
the updates and hear about potential next steps.
Best Regards,
PEMVnet Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 00:07:00 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:07:00 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: boys to men retreats (from Rose Wilde)
Message-ID: <005f01c34bf7$58b46ad0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Well, I'm glad Mr. Dufresne brought that up, because I think that every =
good
idea has a potential for abuse or misuse. And I hadn't heard of
"gatekeeping" as a way to undermine women before. However, I don't =
agree
that a single-sex environment is necessarily completely useless or =
negative.
I think the goal of the all-male environment in this particular workshop =
is
to provide boys with role models (adult men) who can and do express =
their
emotions and serve as referees to prevent the gripe-sessions and =
slamming
that can happen in an all-male environment. Perhaps the point is to =
show
that being with "the guys" can be an emotionally fulfilling experience.
While I wish that boys could open up and relate to adult women in the =
same
way, right now only boys who have very progressive attitudes toward =
gender
seem to want to do that. I have certainly gained trust with boys to the
extent that they were able to share very personal issues. However, I am
really glad that men are starting to get involved in mentoring boys into
adulthood. I mean, I have no idea what it's like to go through puberty =
as a
boy. I have no idea what it's like to stink at sports and get bullied
because of it. I wouldn't know how it feels to not meet society's
expectations of being a real man. While not meeting society's =
expectations
for feminity has it's own punishments (still), it's different--at least
those of us who are women/girls can complain and cry on each other's
shoulders without being called a sissy. While I listen and learn and
surprise boys by how much I do know, I realize that I can't pretend to
understand something I haven't experienced. Perhaps this kind of =
program
will eventually evolve to include both genders. That would be =
interesting.
However, again, as it is not my program, I wouldn't jump to it's =
defense.
Rather, if I was involved with a program like this, that's how I would
rationalize it.
The website for this project, I found, is: www.boystomennw.org. On the
website, it appears to be a pro-feminist, all inclusive, welcome and
tolerate everyone kind of place. But, that's just the website. It
references as inspiration the ManKind project, which I've heard of but =
don't
know much about. I'd be interested in any feedback about this =
international
movement. I mean, it took me a while to figure out the Promise =
Keepers...
So, maybe I'm naive, but I do think there's got to be something for the
boys. After all, sexism and racism don't uniformly take from the have =
nots
and give to the haves. Not all men benefit from sexism. Not all white
people benefit from racism. At least, not in the same ways. It think =
it's
actually a rather small group of people with multiple privileges that =
take
up most of the world's resources, and then they use "gender war" or =
"racial
tension" as a way to keep us all fighting with each other instead of
noticing all those guys who can afford to never even see poor people.
It's a tricky issue, but I think that women and men are both served when
both are able to get their emotional needs met (without denigrating the
opposite sex), and sometimes that comes from sources outside the
relationship or family. I really encourage men to participate in men's
groups, etc., although I am cautious not to give an all out endorsement =
for
any group.
By the way, I heard that the Hunting for Bambi website is being =
investigated
as a possible hoax--unknown right now. While I'd be annoyed to have =
been
tricked, I'd be very relieved to find out this despicable organization
doesn't really exist.
Rose Wilde
Womenspace
Eugene, Oregon
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 15:22:35 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:22:35 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] More on men's retreats and on abstinence issues (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <001501c34c77$405753f0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
A Further Comment on Boys-Men's Programs, and on Abstinence Issues
One thought that has emerged for me from our discussion on boys-men =
retreats
and programs is that they can have the same description on the outside =
and
be very different on the inside. This was also one of the lessons about
fatherhood programs in our earlier discussion. It is necessary in my =
opinion
that our work be pro-feminist and accountable to women - especially =
victims
- as many have said - and that it address the ways in which males have =
also
been hurt and restricted by patriarchy. I believe that one of the =
mistakes
of the early men's retreats inspired by Robert Bly and others was that =
they
focused on men's hurts and healing without providing a political =
analysis
and context for how we have in turn hurt others. With this in mind it =
can be
quite valuable and powerful to have men or boys meet together for =
retreats
and gatherings and learn to share, bond emotionally, and reinforce =
positive
behavior and attitudes if there is also this larger political =
consciousness.
At the same time, as Martin has pointed out, programs that claim to do =
this
on the surface can often be against the very principles that this =
movement
stands for. We must therefore, as Dave suggested, look beneath the =
surface
of each program to see what it is really about and what its goals are.
Regarding dealing with the issue of abstinence, I believe that it is
possible to do work on violence against women and unintentionally convey =
the
belief that all boys are sexually active. This would be wrong and would
reinforce some of the myths that we are trying to change. In fact, boys =
(and
girls, and also men and women) are much less sexually active than is =
usually
thought by their peers. So, however much we decide to focus on =
abstinence,
my opinion is that it should always be presented and validated as a =
choice
made by many and in some cases by the majority, without judgment in =
either
direction about what we think young people should be doing.
As this discussion draws to a close, we look forward to your final =
comments
and sharings. Thanks to all for your participation so far, whether in
posting a comment or by listening in and helping to create a container =
for
this discussion.
Alan Berkowitz
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 17:44:41 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:44:41 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: "Hunt for Bambi" (from Martin Dufresne)
Message-ID: <000701c34c8b$1adf9010$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Regarding the suspicion that the "Hunt for Bambi" commercial operation
(hunt/video) has to be some kind of a hoax, I personally am always
struggling with the natural tendency to dismiss as probably fictitious
reports of extreme sexist assaults. Sadly, such disbelief is part of =
what
isolates and silences sexually abused women and youths.
In the case of the "Hunting for Bambi" operation, I have an e-mail from
North Las Vegas official Brenda Johnson, Assistant to the City Manager,
confirming that the Hunt for Bambi organization *is* licensed in Las =
Vegas
and an e-mail from Las Vegas mayor Oscar Goodman saying that they have
investigated it. The say the 'hunt' takes place outside of their
jurisdiction in Clark County and to call the Clark City Board of
Commissioners(702-455-3500). I think that this were an urban rumor, he =
would
have been *very* glad to tell me so.
Web site URLs have been posted here, that permit verification; women =
have
called and spoken to the reporters involved.
Isn't our wish that this were a hoax and that men wouldn't be treating =
women
like this for fun and profit the real issue here?
Of course, it makes sense to be careful. MSNBC.COM is reporting on the =
"Hunt
for Bambi" scandal this morning at http://msnbc.com/news/939777.asp The
network counters suspicions that this can't be true with an interview of =
a
"Hunt for Bambi" spokesman who says (excerpt): "We love our girls. Why =
do
you think we pay them so much?" Groan...
To protest this 'hunt', please e-mail the Governor of Nevada via his =
website
at http://gov.state.nv.us/mailgov.htm
Pressure can be applied to Las Vegas and Clark County officials using =
the
following address block:
mayor-ogoodman@ci.las-vegas.nv.us, councilman-lbrown@ci.las-vegas.nv.us,
councilman-mmack@ci.las-vegas.nv.us, =
councilman-lweekly@ci.las-vegas.nv.us,
councilman-greese@ci.las-vegas.nv.us,
councilwoman-lmcdonald@ci.las-vegas.nv.us,
councilwoman-jmoncrief@ci.las-vegas.nv.us, ccdista@co.clark.nv.us,
ccdistb@co.clark.nv.us, ccdistc@co.clark.nv.us, ccdistd@co.clark.nv.us,
ccdiste@co.clark.nv.us, ccdistf@co.clark.nv.us, ccdistg@co.clark.nv.us,
rbh@co.clark.nv.us, ccmgr@co.clark.nv.us
And of course, terse letters to the media - with cc. to your network -
supporting the growing boycott of Las Vegas can do wonders against this
specific sexualized assault on women, trivialized by news reports, which =
has
such a strong influence on more mundane sexist behaviour by boys and =
men.
Thanks to all PEMV-L subscribers who will choose to take personal =
action,
Martin Dufresne
Montreal men Against Sexism
martin@laurentides.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 17:51:24 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More on men's retreats (from Frank Feuille)
Message-ID: <000901c34c8c$0ab40c10$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I have concern regarding the criticism which has flowed about helping =
boys
in our society(boys to men)as mentioned by Rose Wilde.
Many boys are not violent and do not come from a domestic violence
background and to only talk about boys in this manner is not fair. When
criticism is given with no credit there is the implication that every
organized effort to help boys become men is problematic just because it
involves men. This seems to me to be perpetuating the violence done to
women and girls and now to men and boys. =20
I understand that some men's movements have not been the type that we in
this field would not like to see. But to question and assume negative
implications simply because there was no credit given to female =
involvement
for that particular program seems to me to be unfortunate to us as a =
society
today. I say this fully realizing that our topic is only about boys who =
are
prone to be violent and have a background in domestic violence. I
personally work actively with boys and girls who have been violent in =
their
personal relationships and have been charged with a crime because of =
that.
However, the instance mentioned by Rose Wilde does not mention nor do I
assume it is intended only for boys who are or will be violent. I =
assume it
for boys who can use help becoming men that we would all be proud of. =
As
many have said, many men are not violent in their relationships.=20
I feel sad that when someone wants to help boys become more feeling and
humane men, that the default reaction is suspicion simple because men =
are
involved.
Frank Feuille
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 19:39:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:39:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] boys retreats/male-only space (from Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <000c01c34c9b$18bb8450$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Many thanks to Martin for bringing up the concern about what exactly =
boys
learn in male-only space. I think of the push for boys-only academies
because "they get too distracted when there are girls around." . It
saddens me to be so suspicious...
In the right hands, I'm sure that such an experience can be incredibly
powerful for healing -- as long as it incorporates responsibility to =
others.
And it's certainly great to have men willing to model appropriate ways =
to
deal with emotions (including acknowledging them in the first place!)
As Alan pointed out, the rhetoric doesn't necessarily match the program =
--
and the intent may not always match the outcome or actual impact.
and further exposing my cynicism, did anyone else read the description =
of
the boys to men program and wonder just how the heck they recruit, =
train,
and supervise ONE HUNDRED adult male volunteers for such a sensitive
program??
-Kelly Anderson
Madison, WI, USA
rccdirector@tds.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 19:58:01 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:58:01 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] More comments on "Hunt for Bambi" (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000d01c34c9d$bb423280$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
We have received a number of postings regarding the "hunt for bambi". =
We
have consolidated these comments into this email - and you will find =
them
below. =20
Our final online discussion will end tomorrow, Friday July 18th. We
respectfully ask that if you would like to continue discussing the "hunt =
for
bambi" topic to please do so with the relevant individuals off the
discussion list. We will be happy to forward emails to participants who =
have
not supplied their email address.=20
In this final day, we would like to encourage more comments concerning =
our
topic of "building effective partnerships with schools".=20
Best regards,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
-------
Not only MSNBC, but FOX and CNN also have broadcasted this "Hunt."
It makes me ill. As a mother of almost 5 year old son, I have been =
trying
to raise him to use his hand for helping and use his "power" for bring
others up. I have to counter this type of junk. I have to put up going =
to
G rated movies seeing Army commercials having bulked up men with guns =
and
before the movie have a lengthy discussion how being a man doesn't mean =
this
image. It also makes me angry reading this news story, and hearing the
founders of the "hunt" describing the type of men who need their =
services -
"wimps."
Recently, my partner and I were at our City Hall. My son saw the photos =
of
mayors on a wall. He asked why there was only one woman. We used the
moment to talk about a time when only certain people could vote. We =
asked
if would be fair if "Mommy couldn't vote." No and he asked why it was =
even
like that. I am waiting for a time to tell him about women's pay and =
how
women are treated in taking certain classes.
In our discussions, we have been talking about teaching youth. We need =
to
talk about helping parents. Providing materials and classes to parents. =
=20
Sexuality begins before birth and continues throughout your life. Maybe
this type of information needs to be included in baby books. Things to
think about raising a girl - things to think about raising a boy.
I am hoping others are using the "Hunt" as a teachable moment. Besides
talking about why it is wrong. Other points, 1) safety - who is paying =
for
the medical injuries for these women, will they be receiving Workers =
Comp?;
2) pay disparity between the owner and the women - and the women who get
shot get less money; 3) media - if it is a hoax why the media decided to
report it without investigation or why there was a need to show =
pixilated
naked women being shot at on national TV; and; 4) taking action=20
- what you can do.
Beth Malchus
Ohio Department of Health
SADVPP
------
Let's keep in mind these women are consenting adults that have chosen to
participate. Should we outlaw S&M as well. As disgusting as I may find =
"Hunt
for Bambi" I feel that protesting and forcing its closer could open up
Pandora's box.
Karla Snell
------
Apparently it most likely IS a hoax... or actually, a spurious use of =
the
news media to sell videos of their horrible faked hunts.
here's the link for info about it...
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bambi.asp
AND, if you go to the company's website: http://www.huntingforbambi.com/
You'll see that they have photos of "wallmounts" that are obviously=20
photoshopped combinations of women's torsos with mounted deer heads.
Apparently they sell the videos of their fake "bambi" paint =
hunts...which is
horrible enough, but they're not getting 20,000 dollars from men to =
actually
hold the hunts. Not that that's much a relief... but there's no law =
against
it, and so writing county commissioners won't accomplish much...
Valerie L'Herrou
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 19:59:55 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:59:55 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More on men's retreats (from Jeremy Simons)
Message-ID: <000e01c34c9d$ff1ef060$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I have to agree with Frank on this, if it's ok for women and girls to =
have
all female events, why not boys and men. This probably also harkens to =
the
previous discussion on mixed vs same-gender groups, that both can be
appropriate depending on facilitator method and topics. =20
Regarding the women gatekeeper topic, while the approach of thwarting =
female
"gatekeepers" may not be encouraged, I think it does point to underlying
issues of how certain arenas in life are "women's'", and men can feel =
shut
out of. This all relates to how men are socialized out of being =
nurturing,
involved etc fully in life. To bring it back to the current discussion =
on
schools, I have heard of men who show up for parent teacher conferences, =
and
the teacher only talks "to" the mother. But that is why this discussion
needs to happen, to bring father's groups into the arena think seriously =
why
this happens and what alternatives can be used to deal with it.
Finally, in regards to conflict resolution and mediation in schools. It =
is
important to remember that there are different types of mediation for
different situations. Victim-offender mediation VOM (its now called =
victim
offender conferencing VOC) is appropriate when there is a clear harm =
caused
to a victim. Good mediators asses ahead of time that the offender has =
taken
responsibility for the harm and is willing to do something to repair it.
However, the victim is central, in that if they don't want to meet for =
any
reason, the VOC will not take place. It is important in violence =
prevention
in schools to be able to determine what type of approach to use, since
"regular" mediation is slightly different when it set up as problem =
solving
between equal partners.
Jeremy Simons
jeremysimons@centura.org
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 20:45:59 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:45:59 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: boys retreats/male-only space (from Michael Kimmel)
Message-ID: <000f01c34ca4$6eb72630$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Kelly Anderson writes that she is suspicious of the claims that "they =
get
too distracted when there are girls around" as a rationale for all-boys
meetings, academies, etc. I'm suspicious too.
Two claims are typically made. One is that men are distracted by the
presence of girls, and the other is that men can be far more "honest" in =
an
all-male group.=20
I'm suspicious because there is simply no credible empirical evidence =
that
it is so. All the evidence collected that such programs are beneficial =
are
collected anecdotally and after the -- that is they are based on the =
boys or
men's PERCEPTIONS that being in an all-male space had some effect. =
There is
no research, of which I am aware, that measures some attitude, =
especially
say attitudes towards women, before and after participation.
Absent that, we're left with only anecdotal accounts. My own experience
directly contradicts both arguments. I originally went to an all-male
college, then transferred to a college that was formerly all-female and =
was
just going coed. Let me state the obvious: at the all-male college, we =
were
FAR more "distracted" by females, by their absence, than we ever were by
their presence at the coed school. (The answer, I believe, has to do =
with
homophobia -- the fact that if we weren't constantly talking about girls =
-
and I mean CONSTANTLY - someone might actually notice that we were all
sexually active post-adolescent men in rather intimate settings!)
My experience in men's CR groups and the like since the mid-1970s also
suggests that men don't especially talk honestly about sexism when =
they're
alone with other men. In fact, it's actually pretty difficult to get =
the
privileged to talk about privilege in any arena: straight people have a =
hard
time talking about the privileges that accrue to straight people just by
virtue of being straight, and white people have the hardest time talking
about the benefits they get just for being white. Get a bunch of men
together to talk about masculinity, and one is often treated to a long =
and
whiny road, a lengthy recitation of how no one understands how hard we =
have
it as men. I don't think one makes much progress on eradicating sexism =
from
that position.
Just as it takes people of color to keep white people focused on race
privilege, and it takes gay people to keep straight people focused on
sexuality privilege, I think we men need to start talking about =
masculinity
with women around. =20
As a social scientist, I am simply unpersuaded by the arguments because
there are simply no data that prove it. As an activist, my experience =
runs
counter to it, and I'm suspicious of the salutary claims made for =
all-male
groups. =20
Not that they can't be useful; they can. It's just a lot more difficult
than simply gathering men together. In fact, I suspect it's a question =
of
content (what one actually DOES) rather than form (what the composition =
of
the group is).
Thank you all for a very interesting discussion.
Michael Kimmel
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 20:48:22 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:48:22 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More on men's retreats from Frank Feuille (from Kelly Anderson)
Message-ID: <001001c34ca4$c3cc4ec0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
Frank's comments are interesting in their assumption that we're =
concerned
with working with a *few* boys or men who are violent or come from a DV
background.
That's been my concern when these discussions veered into BIPs and =
dealing
with men who are already choosing violence instead of the type of =
prevention
that addresses underlying attitudes and societal values that perpetuate =
and
condone violence and sexism.
No one has said that organized efforts to help boys become better people =
are
problematic if they don't give women "credit" -- the point I kept =
hearing is
that such programs need to be rooted in a belief system of gender =
equality.
Most men are not physically violent in their relationships; fine. But =
all
men live in a culture where women are victimized by other men. Ending =
male
violence requires all men and boys to learn alternatives. And the =
ability
to believe that the 'violent' boys are different from the 'normal' boys =
is
what leads to shock when a Columbine happens.
Research doesn't show any significant differences between men who rape =
and
"normal" guys; in studies x% of college guys say they'd commit rape if =
they
could get away with it, or admit to behaviors that constitute rape =
(having
had sex with someone too drunk to stop you).... we know these stats.
Most men and boys are somewhere along the continuum of oppression and
violence -- not permanently at either extreme ("innocent" or "guilty")
No, I'm not suspicious of programs like Boys To Men "simply because men =
are
involved". I'm suspicious b/c such programs have the potential to do =
more
damage, further marginalize women and girls, and contribute to rape =
culture
rather than challenge it.
And as someone who has spent the last 15 years trying to help the =
victims of
male sexual violence, it's exhausting to have to keep caretaking the
feelings of men who want to feel like the 'good guys.'
When dealing with the general public, I understand the need to build =
male
allies and not hurt feelings or alienate men... but I'd hoped the =
folks on
this list were beyond that level. This listserv seemed like a place =
where
we could focus on how we change this society to end male violence; what
works in changing attitudes and social norms; how men and women can =
work
together toward this common goal. I hope that folks can work toward
creating that kind of community -- which should include mutual
accountability.
Kelly Anderson
Madison, WI USA
RCCDirector@tds.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Thu Jul 17 21:03:56 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:03:56 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More on men's retreats (Rus Ervin Funk)
Message-ID: <001101c34ca6$f0a679f0$7c01a8c0@jimmy88>
I hear and feel the discussion, and can certainly resonate with the =
points
made by Frank, Jeremy and Rose. However, I also share the concerns =
raised
so clearly by Martin. I think the difference between all girls/women =
space
and all boys/men space is similar to the difference between space for =
only
people of color vs space for only white folks; or space for only gay =
men,
lesbians, bisexuals or transgendered folks or space for only =
heterosexuals.
There is a tendency when creating space for people of privilege for the
discussion to move in a direction of how we (as people of privilege) are
harmed by... "reverse ism", how overall structure (patriarchy, white
supremacy, heterosexism) hurts us too, etc. -- without staying focused =
on
what we can do to be allies to the primary targets of oppression and the
violence that flows form oppression.
I agree with much of what Alan says about how such space can be crafted, =
and
the need to be exceedingly intentional about how such space is used.
As far as "Mankind" is concerned, I find the organization quite =
troubling in
it's efforts and perspective. While not overtly anti-feminist, there is =
a
lot of the rhetoric and programming that is very masculinist which I =
find
counter to the efforts to create gender justice.
Rus Ervin Funk,=20
Louisville, KY USA
rusfunk@starpower.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 00:14:51 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:51 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: boys retreats/male-only space from Michael Kimmel (From Sam Bachman)
Message-ID: <000001c34cc1$9c6d3e30$5a01510c@jimmy88>
Regarding Mr. Kimmel's comments
I supervise a domestic abuse program for abusers and we have male-female
groups. Sure the men outnumber the women 3 to 1 up to 5 to 1 but our
experience is that co-ed abuser education groups are much more effective
than single sex groups.
Heterogeneity is a good thing and just to be sure we do attempt to get =
post
group anonymous feedback from men and women participating in such groups =
and
the results demonstrate that the presence of women (as group leaders and
clients) in what would otherwise be male only groups provides an
overwhelmingly positive experience for both genders.
Since our program's content is in most ways based on teaching emotional
self-regulation skills, men and women share in the experience of =
learning
and growing together. Both genders can inform the other and this is =
what
happens. But more than this, participants learn that the experience of
unregulated shame induced abuse (toward self/other) knows no political,
cultural, gender, or other boundaries. The experience of shame and what =
we
do with it are common to human experience....cultural norms, beliefs,
familial experiences, ideas about manhood, womanhood do inform our =
choices
but they are not themselves the causes of behavior.
Our experience is that when you offer folks opportunities to learn =
emotional
self regulation skills they are much less likely to abuse others and/or
allow themselves to be abused by others or to engage in various forms of
self abuse.
It is simple really...when individuals feel that they matter, that their
ideas are important, that they are valuable, important and lovable, that
they have power over their feelings and actions, they do not abuse
themselves or others and cease to allow themselves to be abused either.
Sam Bachman
ADAPT: Anger & Domestic Abuse Prevention and Treatment
Fairfax-Falls Church Community Services Board
County of Fairfax, Virginal, USA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 00:14:56 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:56 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More on men's retreats from Kelly Anderson (from Shelli Raen)
Message-ID: <000101c34cc1$a0147440$5a01510c@jimmy88>
I second Kelly Anderson's frustration regarding reading opinions in this
listserv that expect that we as participants in this listserve somehow
caretake the feelings of *oppressed* men who are involved in this work to
end domestic abuse. I too, would expect more from "professional"
individuals in this field. We need allies in this movement - can we move
beyond personal egos and look to the larger picture of violence in society
and with a goal of gender equality and non-violence?
Shelli Raen, M.A., L.M.H.C.
Seattle, WA
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 00:32:38 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:32:38 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Being part of the container for this discussion (from Diane Almeras)
Message-ID: <000701c34cc4$17dfa6a0$5a01510c@jimmy88>
Hello every one!
Even though I was one very active participant into the INSTRAW =
discussion in
2001, this time I haven't said anything, even though I have read every =
post
and recognized many of my companions of past discussions. Warm regards =
to
all.
If I stayed silence mostly for the lack of time at this particular =
moment in
my life, I also shut up because my experience is mostly academic and did =
not
feel that I could add something to what I had already said in 2001. =
However,
before it all come to a close, I want to testify that this discussion =
has
been more than enlightening for me (as it was in 2001) and that it has
accompanied by reflexion around the clock, with the following results: =
1) I
want to reflect some of its conclusions in the study that I am preparing =
on
the evolution in Latin America and the Caribbean of the sharing of =
family
responsibilities between women and men; 2) it made me question my own =
way of
using violence even though I do not consider my self a perpetrator (and =
was
a victim of psychological violence as many women do); and c) gave me =
the
resolve to try to create a small conflict resolution programme at my son
primary school.
That's all. In the postings of the last few days, I felt that the silent
majority was hurting the feelings of those so generously and =
courageously
participating in the discussion and just wanted to visibilize the fact =
that
I was part of its container - as beautifully said by our moderator.
Very kindly to all.
Diane Almeras
Women and Development Unit
Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 00:33:54 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:33:54 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Young Men as Allies (from Ron Liszak)
Message-ID: <000801c34cc4$46fe2e70$5a01510c@jimmy88>
Recent postings are extremely interesting, however my mind keeps =
wandering
back to the title of this discussion: "Young Men as Allies in Preventing
Violence". To me this screams bystander awareness. Young men I have met =
in
high school MVP sessions and at the U. of Montana's Take A Stand group's
retreat: "Redefining Modern Man", are truly allies in this effort. The =
way
these young men became allies was through discussions about men's =
violence,
women's rights, exposure to others' ideas and feelings about this issue,
exploration of their own feelings, and discovery of ways that they, as
bystanders, could speak out or intervene against men's violence, =
language,
and attitudes that are hurtful to women, and therefore to our society.
Once presented with options and "permission" to speak out, young men =
become
passionate, extremely effective allies in this effort. The impact of =
young
men's voices on their peers and younger boys who are searching for role
models is hard to measure, but undoubtedly as these young men gain in
numbers they are capable of instigating very profound fundamental =
changes in
our society.
Having worked with young men in this capacity and seen their enthusiasm =
as
they "take up the banner", I am optimistic that positive change is =
possible
in our society. It is up to our generation to light the way for the =
next, so
they can guide the ones coming behind them.
Keeping the faith in Montana,
Ron Liszak
mkrl@blackfoot.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 01:02:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:02:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Men mentoring boys (From Carole Sousa)
Message-ID: <001301c34cc8$38884250$0808510c@jimmy88>
In response to the discussion of all (male) boy's groups (retreats) and
groups being facilitated by men. Young men in this country are generally
lacking in positive role modeling and mentoring by adult males. The boys
referred to groups for adolescent offenders and youth at risk for dating
violence universally have no men in their lives or if they do these men
aren't providing any kind of positive role modeling. It's not to say =
that
women can't facilitate groups for boys, but I really feel we're doing a
disservice to boys by not making every effort to have pro-feminist men =
run
or at least co-facilitate boys groups. The success of some of the group
work done in Massachusetts is directly related to the boys looking up =
to,
respecting, and wanting to gain the approval of the male group =
facilitator.=20
How are these young men going to learn what it means to be a respectful =
man
when they have no concrete example of what that looks like? And second =
hand
information from a woman often doesn't cut it. It's not to say there =
aren't
some women who are very effective in working with young men, I just =
believe
a women can only get so far in helping a boy who has already developed
negative attitudes toward women. The role for women particularly =
advocates
from battered women's programs and rape crisis centers is to supervise =
these
groups to help keep the male group leaders on track.=20
Frankly, the reason there is no empirical evidence to support that boys
benefit from male only groups is because this work, intervening with =
young
men who have committed violence towards women, is new and often =
nonexistent
in most states. We need more men taking more responsibility to establish
intervention programs and to work with young male perpetrators.=20
Women we have enough to do!!!
Carole Sousa
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 01:17:05 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:17:05 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Friday July 18th - End of BPI Online Discussion Series (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <001401c34cca$4da6d5f0$0808510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,
This is a reminder that Friday, July 18th is the last day of the Building
Partnerships to End Men's Violence online discussion series. Thank you to
everyone for helping to make this an extremely rich experience. The
discussion will end at 5 pm US Pacific Time (GMT-9), so please send your
remaining thoughts by then.
Next week we will send out a summary of this fourth discussion, and in
September we will send out a final report on this initiative. Also, the
papers, discussion archive and other resources will remain available on our
website: http://endabuse.org/bpi
Thanks again to all of you for being a part of this initiative with us.
Warm Regards,
PEMVnet Moderators
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 14:25:23 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:25:23 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] same gender space vs. coed space (from Julie Allison)
Message-ID: <000101c34d38$6dc043d0$9659510c@jimmy88>
This discussion on education is so good. Thank you for the dialogue.
Related to that, I agree that empirical data needs to be collected and a
"best practices" needs to be supported by the data. However, I would =
think
that both are important...boys and girls, men and women, need to come
together, and then separate....then come back together. I can't =
imagine
how accountability can happen to women and victims without listening to =
the
concerns of those women and victims (and other vulnerable populations, =
of
course). Women also have things to learn from men, in the appropriate
context of gender equality assumptions and goals.
I think, however, that it's more comfortable for women to involve =
themselves
in a forum where the sole purpose is to gather and share ideas and =
opinions,
feelings and concerns. This is not something, in my experience, that =
men
feel immediately comfortable with. Perhaps some of the males in this
discussion can comment on this? As advisor to both an =
educational/advocacy
group for victims and a men's program against violence against women at
Pittsburg State University (in Kansas) I have observed (unempirically) =
that
defenses in the men don't go down for several weeks into our program (I =
am
present for about half of the men's discussions). The men corroborate =
that
this happens without my presence as well. However, once the newness of =
the
situation subsides, the men do very well, and seem excited to share =
their
newfound insights through programming with younger males in middle =
school
and high school. And while I do acknowledge that empirical evidence is
needed, my experience is that the men and boys appreciate discussing =
this
issue alone, as do the women and girls. And they also appreciate and
benefit from talking together.
Julie Allison
Pittsburg State University
jallison@pittstate.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 14:27:41 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:27:41 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] another comment on all-male workshops (from Alan Berkowitz)
Message-ID: <000201c34d38$bfbf79d0$9659510c@jimmy88>
I would like to add a comment to the discussion on male-only programs.=20
First, I respectfully disagree with Michael's claim that there is no
empirical evidence for the effectiveness of all- male programs. In fact, =
for
college students, four separate literature reviews by noted experts in =
the
field have concluded that for one-time workshops, all-female programs =
are
more effective for women and all-male programs are more effective for =
men,
while co-educational programs are less effective for each, using a =
variety
of outcomes other than participant satisfaction with the workshop. (A =
review
of this literature is contained in an article titled "Fostering Men's
Responsibility for Preventing Sexual Assault" that is on my website,
www.alanberkowitz.com). In addition to myself, many who have posted to =
this
list have attested to the power and benefit of all-male programs, as =
well as
mixed gender programs. At the same time, I agree with Michael and others
about the dangers of male-only programs when they are not carefully
facilitated and presented in a way that is conscious of men's sexism and
privilege, and with appropriate accountability to women.
I also agree that co-educational programs can be appropriate and =
powerful
and that they may be the program of choice for younger boys and girls, =
or in
certain settings. What I hope that we can collectively agree is that =
there
are different approaches that have strengths and pitfalls that must be
avoided, and that there may be different best practices in different
contexts. Pointing out the problems or misuse of a particular approach =
does
not mean that we are condemned to repeating those problems, while there =
may
be significant advantages gained from using these same formats when they =
are
properly executed.
Sincerely,
Alan Berkowitz
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 14:29:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:29:30 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Essential ingredients (from Barri Rosenbluth)
Message-ID: <000301c34d39$00beba40$9659510c@jimmy88>
I would like to thank all of you for joining in and taking the time to =
share
your thoughts, opinions, and experiences. This discussion has been very
interesting. For me, Michael Kimmel's comments on all male groups were
particularly important.=20
"Just as it takes people of color to keep white people focused on race
privilege, and it takes gay people to keep straight people focused on
sexuality privilege, I think we men need to start talking about =
masculinity
with women around." =20
I have been troubled by the progressive-sounding rhetoric about =
male-only
forums. There is something suspect to me about events or activities that
exclude from participation individuals who share similar goals. This =
concept
runs counter to my sense of where we need to go as men and women. Beyond
that, it personally offends me when any individual or group is not =
welcome
because of characteristics such as skin color or body parts. I'm worried
that male-only groups or educational programs will be considered the
standard for working with boys thereby diverting our attention and the
attention of school administrators from what may be the more essential
ingredients of effective programs.=20
I fully support providing opportunities for men and boys and for women =
and
girls for that matter to meet in same-sex settings if they choose. The
Expect Respect program provides among other activities voluntary single
gender support groups in schools for boys and girls. My point is that
neither single nor mixed gender programs should be held up as superior
solely based on the gender of the facilitator and participants. Let's
continue to identify these essential ingredients so that more men and =
women
can offer them to youth in schools.
Barri Rosenbluth
SafePlace, Austin, Texas
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 14:31:32 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:31:32 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Basis of positive change (from Ivan Wilson)
Message-ID: <000401c34d39$49341310$9659510c@jimmy88>
Folks
=20
>From all that I have read in this discussion, and from extensive =
personal
experience, I conclude that the central requirement for positive =
outcomes is
merely a strong conviction that positive change is desired by every =
"this
person" and a willingness to work out of that person's present vision of =
the
goal.=20
=20
Then the desires that Shelli Raen expresses so eloquently reach at least
a beginning.
=20
The theoretical position, and the setting in which the work occurs, are
relatively secondary. I have witnessed excellent work from most of the
positions reported here - when done with honest positive expectation. I =
have
seen hard work to little gain by those excellent souls who lack that
expectation and hope. The website "talkingcures" says much the same for =
the
general psychotherapy labors.
=20
Go well.
=20
Ivan Wilson
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 14:33:41 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:33:41 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Thanks to all contributors (from Helen Moffett)
Message-ID: <000501c34d39$96776eb0$9659510c@jimmy88>
Like Diane Almeras, I feel I said my piece (many times!) during the 2001
discussion, so have been a largely silent participant. Nevertheless, =
I've
found the discussion stimulating and helpful. Although there have been =
very
few voices from the developing world (a great pity), partly because of =
the
focus on structures that exist in North America, in some ways I've found =
the
ideas more helpful than I did last time round, because the discussion =
has
stuck to practical interventions. I know how important theory is (my own
work on rape is deeply and centrally engaged with theory), but it's been
refreshing and useful to have this discussion so grounded in what it is =
that
folk are DOING, rather than thinking. It's been good hearing the voices =
of
so many practitioners, given that academics dominated the 2001 =
discussion
(and I speak as an academic!)
Strength and courage to you all, and a special thank-you to the =
moderators.
If anyone wants to contact me directly (am still nervous about putting =
my
e-mail address out there), you can always contact me through the =
moderators
(while this list is still active), or via my Dept e-mail =
(agi@uct.ac.za).
Helen Moffett
African Gender Institute
University of Cape Town
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 14:40:14 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:40:14 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Working with College Men (from Chris Linder)
Message-ID: <000801c34d3a$80eb44d0$9659510c@jimmy88>
This has been a phenomenal discussion so far, and my favorite in the =
series.
For the past four years, I have worked in higher education, primarily =
with
fraternities and sororities. I am skeptical to share that because I have
also learned that as soon as I indicate that I am an advocate for
fraternities and sororities, I am immediately discredited. I stumbled =
upon
this career as an "outsider." I was pursuing my master's degree in =
Higher
Education Administration - Student Affairs at a large public institution
with a very strong fraternity/sorority community. I was not a part of =
the
community as an undergraduate student, and I knew that I had to better
understand the system if I wanted to be a successful Student Affairs
Administrator. I jumped in with both feet, and have become a strong =
advocate
for fraternities and sororities on college campuses, and believe that =
these
organizations can be an effective environment in which to begin to =
address
social justice issues, as long as we acknowledge and address the caveats =
and
problems associated with these groups.
The reason that I bring this up is the discussion focused on same-sex =
groups
to discuss violence against women. As indicated earlier, there are
definitely pros and cons to using same-sex groups to discuss this tough
issue, but I wanted to remind us not to shy away from groups that are
considered "high risk" groups (i.e. fraternities and athletics on =
college
campuses). We have two fairly new programs at the University of Missouri
that work specifically to address violence against women and rape with
fraternity men, helping them to look at their own behavior, challenge =
their
peers, and to take on the role of an "active bystander." Neither of the
programs has been evaluated yet because they are so new, but will =
probably
be in the next couple of years. I do know, however, that other campuses =
have
had success with similar programs.
At the same time, sororities are some of the largest organizations for =
women
on college campuses, and are a great opportunity for us to educate women
about the myths surrounding violence against women and to give them the
tools to support and help each other escape violent relationships that =
they
may be in.
Thanks for a great discussion, and keep up the good work!
Chris
Chris Linder
Coordinator, Greek Life
University of Missouri
Columbia, MO
linderch@missouri.edu
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 15:23:37 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:23:37 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Men mentoring boys (from Paul Schewe)
Message-ID: <000c01c34d40$91c2bc10$9659510c@jimmy88>
I recently conducted an outcome evaluation of school-based prevention
programs provided by ICASA's rape crisis centers in Illinois in an =
effort to
better understand the content and characteristics of effective =
prevention
programming. 29 rape crisis centers and 3600 students participated in =
this
evaluation. I was hoping that this study would shed some light on the
question of single-gender groups vs. coed groups, but unfortunately not
enough programs offered single gender groups to allow for statistical
comparison.
One very interesting finding, however, concerned the gender of =
presenters.
Female educators (in primarily 9th grade classrooms) were equally =
effective
with both male and female students. Male educators had a very large =
impact
on the attitudes, beliefs, and behavioral intentions of the female =
students
in their classrooms, but they had very little impact on the male =
students in
their classrooms. The data run precisely counter to our long-standing
notion that we need male educators to reach male students. However, =
another
very clear finding of the study was that a male-female team of =
prevention
educators had the greatest effect for both male and female students. =
Its
likely that the modeling of healthy male-female interactions was =
responsible
for this effect.
Regarding the content of interventions, bystander interventions (i.e., =
how
to help a friend who has been raped) proved to be one of the only =
effective
interventions for both males and females, and one of the only =
interventions
associated with success for single-session programs.
ICASA reaches approximately 200,000 to 400,000 young people per year =
with
its prevention programs. This Fall, we plan to repeat the evaluation in
order to determine whether the prevention educators were able to use the
results of the evaluation to improve the effectiveness of their
interventions.
Paul
Paul A. Schewe, Ph.D.
University of Illinois at Chicago
Email: Schewepa@uic.edu
Website: www.uic.edu/~schewepa/
The Interpersonal Violence Prevention Information Center
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 16:56:10 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:56:10 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Essential ingredients from Barri Rosenbluth (from Rus Funk)
Message-ID: <001d01c34d4d$83292c40$9659510c@jimmy88>
I agree with Barri, and actually have a different read of the literature
than Alan. My read of the research indicates that the difference =
between
mixed gender and sex specific programming -- in terms of "effectiveness" =
--
depends in part on what the goals of the presentation are. I will say =
that
the research seems awfully clear that mixed gender programming benefits =
boys
and men much more than it does girls and women. But in terms of =
educating
or sensitizing men, I understand the research to indicate that mixed =
gender
programming is actually better at increasing men's empathy; while single =
sex
programming seems to be better at increasing men's ownership and sense =
of
responsibility of the issues.
It also seems to me that there is also a difference between educational
programming of the type that you and Barrie are discussing (esp on =
college
campuses) and the all male club settings (especially with adolescents) =
that
I understood Michael to be responding to. =20
The concern for me, as other's have stated about all male settings (like
with all white or all heterosexual settings) often (in my experience, =
almost
always without very clear thinking and planning -- such as what it =
appears
the Men of Strength Clubs of Men Can Stop Rape) slide into conversations
that do not promote gender equity, or any critical thinking about
masculinity. This kind of conversation does NOT happen naturally. =20
As an example, in cooperation with a couple of other organizations here =
in
Louisville, we are developing a training for mentoring programs that =
work
with adolescent males about ways to talk about and address issues of =
dating
abuse and sexism -- thus providing the mentors with the skills and
information they need to help the young men they mentor to address these
issues. I'm not against mentor programs, but am aware that without =
specific
training, they, on their own, will not address these issues.
I suspect, as Michael suggested, that other forms of boys retreats, =
groups,
clubs, etc. are the same. This isn't to completely discount them, but =
as a
method of encouraging gender sensitivity and decreasing the incidence of
men's violence and abuse, these programs can't be relied on as is.
Rus Ervin Funk,
Louisville, KY USA
rusfunk@starpower.net
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 17:07:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:07:06 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Final comments from Alan and Carole
Message-ID: <001e01c34d4f$051b82b0$9659510c@jimmy88>
As this discussion comes to a close, we would like to summarize what we
think are some of the principles and lessons expressed by many of those
contributing to our discussion about working with boys in schools. We
apologize for the incompleteness of this list and for any omissions.
1. Work with schools is a long-term process that requires patience,
persistence and careful development of contacts and programs over time.
2. Programs for young people need to be developmentally appropriate.
3. Students we work with come from a variety of backgrounds and also =
from a
variety of experiences with respect to violence, both as perpetrators,
bystanders and/or victims. Our programs need to be adapted to the =
different
needs and issues of these groups. Thus, one size cannot fit all in our
work. Effective program formats can include same gender and/or mixed =
gender
groups. There are strengths and weaknesses of either approach that we =
must
be aware of and that must be addressed.
4. Work with men and boys needs to be within a pro-feminist framework =
with
appropriate accountability to women and a commitment to =
self-understanding
and healing among men.
5. School based work on this issue has to be comprehensive and should
include developing a school/community based advisory board, preventative
education programs and curriculum, intervention programs for adolescent
perpetrators, support groups for victims, policy and procedure =
development
and parental involvement.
6. Addressing issues of men's sexism, privilege and homophobia are =
central
to this work.
7. Work with men and boys requires that we create a sense of safety and
trust that will encourage honesty and openness.
Many thanks to all who have contributed and listened to this discussion.
Alan Berkowitz and Carole Sousa
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 17:54:46 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:54:46 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: same gender space vs. coed space from Julie Allison (from Ruben Reyes)
Message-ID: <001f01c34d55$af80d240$9659510c@jimmy88>
I want to draw on Julie Allison here, because I completely agree with
her--as well as others who have made the same point--that both men and =
women
need the same sex-only groups and coed groups. This is exactly what we
(Puntos de
Encuentro--Nicaragua) do in our youth camps, we try to provide spaces =
for
separate groups of boys and girls, and we also have them come together =
and
help them engaged in a constructive dialogue. This seems to work quite =
well.
I also have the experience of working with men-to-men groups, since I am
also a member of the Association of Men against Violence-Nicaragua, and =
even
though we try to have women's input into our work, we do not have a
continuous dialogue with women, and sometimes we have done workshops on
gender issues with men in places where the women had not had this kind =
of
work before, and the result has been that some of the men tend to use =
that
new information within the context of keeping a domineering relationship
with their partners or wives (we know this from anecdotal information we
have heard). For this reason we are now trying to coordinate more with
women's organizations so we can together organize and facilitate the
workshops. We still are not doing enough of this coed kind of work, but =
I do
feel that we need to do more and better.
Ruben Reyes Jiron
Nicaragua
ruben.reyes@puntos.org.ni
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 20:16:37 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:16:37 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Re: More on men's retreats from Kelly Anderson (from Chuck Derry)
Message-ID: <002801c34d69$7ef92d70$9659510c@jimmy88>
I agree with Kelly Anderson's concerns and frustrations regarding once =
again
having to be reminded that "not all men are bad." Maybe we could just =
agree
as pro-feminist men that when we are talking about men's oppression of
women, we understand that it happens at such an astounding rate that =
none of
us are without blame and therefore naturally suspect. Maybe we could =
rely on
all the male centered cultural activities and media representations of =
male
worship and privilege to make sure that all the good things men are, =
remains
in the forefront as we are discussing the insidious ways unimaginable
numbers of men stalk, torture, strangle, rape, and kill women.=20
Maybe we don't always have to be so worried about our reputations. =
Maybe, as
we change our collective behaviors, our reputations will follow.
I am thankful that this "not all men are bad" sentiment seems to be =
coming
up less and less through the years in these types of discussions with
pro-feminist men.
Regarding Mr. Bachman's articulation of his mixed gender offenders =
groups. I
categorically disagree with this type of group process for offenders as =
well
as the theoretical basis upon which it is apparently built. My concerns =
and
disagreements are too numerous to state here.
Thanks again to all for the great discussion. I am currently looking to
develop a project for collaborations between universities and high =
schools
using peer educators and these discussion have been very valuable. I may =
be
contacting some of you in the future.
Thanks to the moderators for your insights.
Chuck Derry
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Fri Jul 18 23:10:50 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:10:50 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] RE: Final comments from Alan and Carole (from Jeremy Simons)
Message-ID: <001201c34d81$d6b80550$da72510c@jimmy88>
Hello,
Thanks to everyone for the input on this discussion, especially those who
chose to be vulnerable about their own personal experiences.
While not all these issues are clarified here, nor the debates resolved (as
indicated by most recent postings), I have been greatly enlightened by
people's input. Thanks again.
Anyone can feel free to contact me for further discussion if desired after
this forum.
Jeremy Simons, MA
Father's Case Manager
jeremysimons@centura.org
Community Restorative Justice Coordinator
colejustice@juno.com
Denver, Colorado
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Sat Jul 19 00:06:30 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:06:30 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] End of the BPI Online Discussion Series (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <001301c34d89$9bc45720$da72510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
It is now time to bring the fourth discussion and the entire "Building
Partnerships to End Men's Violence Online Discussion Series" to a close.
Thank you kindly to all for being a part of this initiative. It is very
encouraging that our discussion community has grown to nearly 900 strong
over the course of these four discussions. Also - to those who offered
postings - thank you for helping to contribute to our collective =
learning
and sharing. =20
A few reminders: =20
Please fill out our PEMVnet Questionnaire by next Friday, July 25th. =
Your
responses will help us learn how to better undertake this type of =
discussion
in the future and shape potential next steps for this initiative.
Although our discussions are now over, please stay subscribed to this
discussion list. We will send out a summary of discussion four next =
week.
In September, we will send out a project report with a synthesis of the
discussions and the results from the PEMVnet Questionnaire.=20
Our project website www.endabuse.org/bpi will remain up, and in the =
future
will be integrated into the Family Violence Prevention Fund's main site
www.endabuse.org=20
On our website you will find the entire set of BPI discussion papers, =
case
studies and summaries, the link to the discussion archive, and the =
community
page - a searchable database of the PEMVnet participant community.=20
Thank you once again and kind regards,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
Lucy Salcido Carter
James Lang
Pat McGann=20
David Slone Rider=20
Dean Peacock=20
=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 22 22:47:19 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:47:19 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Summary of Discussion Four and housekeeping (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000001c350a3$360b08d0$cf0c510c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,=20
SUMMARY=20
Please find below the summary of our final online discussion "Young men =
as
allies in preventing violence and abuse: Building effective partnerships
with schools". You will also find this and other summaries on our =
website:=20
http://endabuse.org/bpi under the online discussions link. =20
ONLINE QUESTIONNAIRE - DISCUSSION LIST QUIET UNTIL SEPTEMBER=20
Please remember that our Online Discussion Questionnaire is due this =
Friday,
July 25th. Please take the time to fill in this important survey. =
Thank
you to those who have sent in your completed form. =20
After today you will not hear from us for a while, but we will send out =
the
final report of this initiative in September. Please stay tuned. =20
FOLLWING UP WITH THE FAMILY VIOLENCE PREVENTION FUND (FVPF)
Just following this message, we are sending out an email that asks about
your interest in staying connected to the Family Violence Prevention =
Fund.
If you are interested, please fill in the three short questions and =
return
the email to the FVPF. =20
Warm Regards,=20
PEMVnet Moderators=20
__________________
Building Partnerships to End Men's Violence Online Discussion Series=20
Summary of discussion four "Young men as allies in preventing violence =
and
abuse: Building effective partnerships with schools"
The article "Young men as allies in preventing violence and abuse: =
Building
effective partnerships with schools" argued for schools as an ideal =
setting
in which to reach boys early with information about healthy =
relationships,
the harms of violence against women and girls, and strategies for =
preventing
such violence. Although schools create challenges to this work, there =
are
compelling reasons for working in schools, including: 1) schools =
influence
social norms regarding gender-based behavior; 2) violence in schools has =
a
negative effect on educational outcomes; 3) students, parents, teachers, =
and
administrators all want safe schools; and 4) schools want to implement
effective violence prevention strategies. The article also described =
key
components to successful work in schools, highlighting the following: 1)
build long-term relationships among violence prevention staff and school
personnel; 2) link up with already existing school-based programs; 3)
integrate violence prevention themes into existing curricula; 4) involve
parents; and 5) provide school-based counseling on violence-related =
issues.
Prevention programs aimed at boys and young men are effective when they =
are
active rather than passive, are sustained over time, focus on boys'
concerns, and employ positive messages.
Although the discussion on schools began slowly, it picked up speed in =
week
2 and resulted in a lively conversation about everything from the =
advantages
and disadvantages of single-gender programs to the horrors of =
exploitative
businesses like "Hunting Bambi." There were 73 postings by 40 =
participants,
including many comments by practitioners about the usefulness of the
discussion in helping them shape future practice. =20
The challenges of gender-based work in schools were highlighted.
Participants said that in educational settings conversation about a =
topic
related to sex can be difficult, despite the fact that students want to =
talk
about sex, gender, and healthy relationships. This challenge is very
present in states with laws limiting education about sex to discussions
about abstinence. One contributor felt that educating parents about =
sexual
assault and domestic violence is an important strategy. One of the =
article
authors found through her work that parents are critical role models for
children and suggested that parents can be encouraged, through their =
concern
for teasing and bullying, to participate in violence prevention work. =
Most
school administrators listen to parents' concerns. One way to get
gender-related discussions happening in the schools is for a group of
parents to request such a discussion at a school parents' meeting. =
Another
participant talked about how even within the abstinence-only parameters, =
she
was able to lead a discussion with students about consent and coercion, =
and
sexual assault. She emphasized the importance of staying flexible and
youth-centered, always accepting invitations from schools to lead
discussions and trusting that the youth would take the discussions =
beyond
the boundaries placed on them by the school.
Postings supported the notion that finding one ally, teacher or
administrator, in the school was a great way to begin work there; and =
that
integrating violence prevention into the curriculum was important. One
participant was able to get the attention of school personnel in Montana
through a Safe School grant, and conducted successful Mentors in =
Violence
Prevention trainings for students and similar trainings for teachers =
there.
He also prepared school counselors for potential "fall-out" from raising
these issues, so that counselors could respond to youth who were =
directly
affected by violence and needed help. Another participant reminded us =
that
school efforts must be combined with community-based approaches to reach
youth who are more influenced by what happens on the streets than in the
schools, and to change community norms around violence. Yet another
participant worked with law enforcement when the schools were not =
initially
open to a discussion for parents of adolescents about sexual assault.
A contributor from South Africa showed us the power of the arts as a way =
to
communicate about violence-related issues, contributing a poem by a =
doctor
who had treated a young rape victim. Another participant spoke about =
the
arts as a catalyst for engaging boys in discussions about violence,
including the production in their school of a play on dating violence. =20
Schools can teach children to be "courageous bystanders" who speak up
against bullying and other forms of violence. These courageous =
bystanders
increase school safety, improve social norms, and help create a culture =
of
respect. Courageous bystanders should also be aware of and interrupt
subtler forms of disrespect, such as jokes that marginalize particular
groups of people. It is important to remember that many bystanders are
uncomfortable with the behavior they witness, but do not act because =
they
think that others are comfortable with the behavior. One effective
prevention strategy with these silent bystanders is to tell them that =
they
are not alone in their discomfort, and that they will have allies if =
they
take action. =20
Programs represented in the discussion included universal primary =
prevention
approaches in schools, but also specific interventions with youth who =
have
been or were at high risk of becoming violent. One 26-week program for
adjudicated youth in Oregon covers the following topics: power and =
control,
social norms of violence in media, bullying, dating violence, gender
stereotypes, domestic violence facts, sexism, anger management,
understanding feelings, empathy, and defining healthy relationships. =
This
participant quoted a report from the Boston program Emerge that says =
that
"the adolescent offender often does not have a sophisticated system of
denial in place" and is open to changing his behaviors. Other =
contributors
confirmed this, pointing out that this honesty of adolescents about =
their
behavior means that the intervention and education can start right away.
Because some violent adolescents are being abused by an adult abuser, it =
is
important to help these teens learn how to keep themselves safe, too.
Conflict resolution and peer mediation programs were discussed, and
participants agreed that they are valuable in many contexts for working =
with
children to teach them problem solving and communication skills. =
However,
because violence takes so many different forms, not all approaches will =
work
in all contexts. Some programs serve primary or secondary prevention
functions, while others can work to provide tertiary
prevention/intervention. It is important not to use conflict resolution =
in
situations in which the parties do not have equal power, and not to =
blame
both parties for behavior that is the responsibility of only one party.
Whatever programs are used in schools should counteract sexism and
homophobia, ideologies around which boys can bond to develop negative
behaviors. =20
Participants expressed a need for more spaces in which boys (and men) =
can
notice their feelings and can heal from the hurts accumulated through =
their
indoctrination into masculinity. Some contributors found that separate
gender groups are powerful vehicles for violence prevention work because
they allow for discussions about gender-specific issues and, in all-male
groups, help men hold each other accountable. However, it is vital that
all-male programs include acknowledgment of societal oppressions and are
rooted in gender equality. There was some concern that without women to
remind them, all-male programs may not work on eradicating sexism. And
there was frustration expressed by some that this topic of conversation =
was
just more caretaking of "oppressed" men. There were also comments about =
the
value of mixed groups, especially with a male and a female facilitator =
who
together can model positive interactions across the genders.
The work with boys and young men in the schools and other contexts =
brings
hope to many of the participants, as they see young men grasp the =
concepts
and become strong allies to ending violence against girls and women.
Some resources mentioned
Berkowitz, Alan. "Fostering Men's Responsibility for Preventing Sexual
Assault" www.alanberkowitz.com
Creighton, Allen and Paul Kivel. "Helping Teens Stop Violence. Hunter =
House
Publishing http://www.hunterhouse.com/showbook.asp?bid=3D86),=20
Dasgupta, Shamita. (2002). A Framework for Understanding Women's Use of
Nonlethal Violence in Intimate Relationships. Violence Against Women, =
8(11),
1364-1389.
Dowling, Finuala - poem "To the doctor who treated the raped baby and =
who
felt such despair" c/o Carapace Poets, 30 Firfield Road, Plumstead, =
7800,
South Africa.
Gilligan, J. (2001). Preventing Violence. New York: Thames and Hudson.=20
Heise. Lori. (1998). Violence Against Women: An Integrated, Ecological
Framework. Violence Against Women, 4(3).
Johnson, M. P., & Ferraro, K. (2000). Research on Domestic Violence in =
the
1990s: Making Distinctions. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62(4),
948-963.
Stein, Nan. "Bullyproof: A Teacher's Guide on Teasing and Bullying" for =
use
with Fourth and Fifth Grade Students. Wellesley College Center for =
Research
on Women
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Jul 22 22:49:26 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:49:26 -0700
Subject: [Pemv-net] Stay engaged with the Family Violence Prevention Fund (From Doniece Sandoval)
Message-ID: <000101c350a3$812b5d60$cf0c510c@jimmy88>
The Family Violence Prevention Fund (FVPF) invites to you continue to =
stay
engaged with our violence prevention work.=A0 To help us understand what
interests you most, please take the time to answer the three short =
questions
below.=20
=A0
To respond, cut and paste the questions below into a new email.=A0 Then =
mark
an X by all that apply,=A0and email your responses to: =
doniece@endabuse.org
-----------
1.=A0 Would you be interested in learning more about the FVPF=92s work =
in:
__Family violence and child welfare
__Family violence and health care
__Workplace responses to family violence
__Trafficking
__Immigrant women and family violence
__Public policy initiatives
__Public education campaigns
__Judicial training
__Men=92s campaigns:=A0 Coaching Boys into Men, Founding =
Fathers
=A0
2.=A0 Would you be interested in partnering with the FVPF on future =
programs
and campaigns?=A0=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 __Yes
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 __No
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0 If yes, what is the name of your organization?
=A0=A0=A0=20
3. The FVPF is launching an exciting new membership program to engage a
broader audience in the effort to end violence in our homes and
communities.=A0 Would you be interested in finding out more about our
membership program?
__Yes
__No
=A0
Thank you for your interest!
=A0
Doniece Sandoval=20
Director of Communications=20
Family Violence Prevention Fund=20
383 Rhode Island St., Suite 304=20
San Francisco, CA 94103=20
P=A0 415/252-8900 x 41=20
F=A0 415/252-8991 (fax)=20
E=A0 doniece@endabuse.org=20
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Tue Oct 28 05:21:06 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:21:06 -0800
Subject: [Pemv-net] Survey findings, conclusions and next steps (from Moderators)
Message-ID: <000c01c39d13$4afbeef0$e368550c@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet Participants,
=A0
Thank you for your participation in our recent series of rich online
discussions.=A0 This email provides a synthesis of the key online =
discussion
themes, the results of the evaluation survey results, and next steps for =
the
initiative.
=A0
A total of 295 emails were posted over the 8-week discussion period.=A0 =
At the
end of the discussions, an evaluation survey was sent to the 890 PEMVnet
participants.=A0 There were 97 respondents to the survey.=A0=20
=A0
Online discussions
The four online discussions resulted in many lively conversations =
presenting
a variety of perspectives on a range of topics related to engaging men =
in
ending violence against women.=A0 The discussion about bringing many
organizations under the big tent emphasized the importance of creating a
forum in which different voices can be heard in support of ending =
violence
against women.=A0 In 116 postings, participants described the work they =
were
doing to bring new partners to the table, but also expressed =
frustrations as
they encountered challenges.=A0 The discussion revealed areas where more =
work
to build trust is needed.=A0 Although it is powerful for men to develop =
their
own strategies for working to end violence, these must be implemented in
consultation with women leaders doing similar work.=A0 Men must earn =
greater
trust by showing that they are authentically engaged in ending men's
violence.=A0=A0 Some participants believed that to really work to end =
men's
violence, men must redefine manhood.=A0 Others felt that doing this work =
would
by its very nature change social norms around manhood, and that trading =
one
inflexible view of manhood for another would not move the work forward.
=A0
The discussion also raised the difficulties inherent in wanting to be
inclusive but not stray from the key mission of ending violence against
women.=A0 There is strength in having groups with different opinions and
perspectives all working with a common mission, but that mission must =
stay
broad to encompass these differences.=A0 To do this work, all men must =
become
empowered bystanders willing to confront men who are violent.=A0 They =
must
support each other as they speak out against this violence and for
respectful, healthy relationships with women.=A0 Men must have =
information
about the harms of violence, both the societal and personal costs.=A0 =
For some
men engagement at the personal level will be key, through recognizing =
how
violence against women affects every woman, children, and themselves.
=A0
There were fewer postings (61) for the discussion about the batterer
intervention programs, yet the conversation was equally lively.=A0 The =
paper
for this discussion led with the key point that although coordinated
community response initiatives (built around criminal justice response) =
are
life-saving innovations, there are unintended negative consequences to
relying solely on them.=A0 Additional strategies were presented, =
including
preventative community education approaches, as well as culturally
appropriate programs for men who are abusive or at risk of becoming =
so.=A0
Batterer intervention programs create opportunities for men to reconnect
with traditions, from their cultural backgrounds, that promote healthy
relationships with women.=A0=20
=A0
Again, participants emphasized the need to build trust across groups =
that
had not worked together in the past.=A0 In this case, it was suggested =
that
staff from batterer intervention programs and from service programs for
women survivors dialogue together on how best to support each other's =
work.=A0
The batterer intervention programs that best keep the reality of =
battered
women central to their work are those who engage frequently in these
conversations with providers of services for women survivors.=A0 There =
was
also quite a bit of debate about the value of and strategies for =
bringing
non-court-mandated men into batterer intervention programs.=A0 In order =
to
reduce stigma, some programs were describing themselves as anger =
management
programs in an effort to encourage other abusive men to participate.=A0 =
There
is a significant risk in doing this because the underlying causes of
violence against women go much deeper than anger management.=A0 And =
there
could be increased risk to women survivors if judges, for example, saw =
anger
management and batterer intervention programs as interchangeable and =
began
assigning abusive men only to anger management classes.=A0=20
=A0
There seemed to be agreement among the participants that criminal =
justice
responses operate on the false notion that punishment alone will get men =
to
stop their violence.=A0 Yet they also play a critical role in keeping =
women
safe and in bringing important public attention and resources to the =
problem
of violence against women.=A0 Participants suggested that efforts in =
this area
center on bringing additional resources into the mix, without depleting =
the
funds currently going to existing strategies.
=A0
There were fewer postings (45) for the discussion on working with =
fatherhood
programs.=A0 This work seems to be still in a nascent stage with less
expertise and interest among the participants in using this strategy to
improve violence prevention and intervention programs.=A0 The paper
highlighted three main categories of fathers programs: fathers' rights,
responsible fatherhood, and father involvement.=A0 The father =
involvement
programs have the most promise as violence prevention partners.=A0
Unfortunately, aggressive strategies by fathers' rights groups have =
really
had a negative impact on the willingness of domestic and sexual violence
prevention advocates to engage in dialogue with any fathers' groups.=A0 =
Any
basis for trust seems to be on the shakiest ground in this area.=A0 =
Because of
this, clear rules for dialogue must be created with care taken to avoid
terms that may be inflammatory and impede discussion.
=A0
Successful approaches to integrating violence prevention and fatherhood =
work
focus on the common goal of healthy relationships.=A0 They emphasize =
that
traditional notions of masculinity in which men have sole responsibility =
and
control over certain domains are bad for families, bad for the women and
children in those families, and also bad for the men.=A0 To truly serve
families well, fatherhood programs must work with other service =
providers to
address a full range of issues families face.=A0 This is also true for
programs that focus on violence prevention and intervention.=A0 There =
was
general agreement in the discussion that batterer intervention programs =
need
better tools for including information about fathering in their classes =
and
that young fathers, in particular, need to know about the potential =
harms to
their children of exposure to violence.
=A0
The participation picked up again when we turned to schools as a venue =
for
engaging boys and young men in ending violence against women and =
girls.=A0 In
73 postings, participants talked about the advantages and challenges of
working in school settings to address domestic and sexual violence.=A0 =
The
paper emphasized that schools are important venues for this work because
they influence social norms around gender and because parents and
administrators want good violence prevention strategies to keep their
schools safe.=A0 Key components for this work include: developing =
long-term
working relationships with school personnel; linking violence prevention =
to
existing programs; integrating violence prevention themes into existing
curricula; involving parents; and including counseling services for =
children
who disclose exposure to violence.=20
=A0
Participants highlighted the challenges of bringing any discussion about
gender or sex-related issues into the schools.=A0 As a result, several
participants suggested accepting invitations to lead discussions in =
schools
about related subjects.=A0 Once in the school, by keeping the =
conversations
youth centered, the issues of gender-related violence will come up =
because
the youth will want to talk about it.=A0 The notion of courageous =
bystanders
was also discussed in the school context.=A0 With the right support and
information from adults and peers, children and youth can be taught to
safely interrupt bullying and disrespectful behavior, and to better
understand how to shape healthy relationships with each other.=A0 =
Parents can
also be avenues of support because they want their children to be safe =
in
school.=A0 Parents can lobby schools to create programs to address =
violent and
disrespectful behavior.=A0=20
=A0
Different types of programs will work best in different settings.=A0 =
Conflict
resolution strategies should not be used in situations of unequal =
balance of
power.=A0 All programs should work to counteract sexism and homophobia, =
since
boys often rally around these ideologies to condone disrespect.=A0 There =
was
heated debate about the pros and cons of single gender programs, but
agreement that boys need more spaces in which they can safely express =
their
feelings.=A0 Discussion also focused on reaching at-risk children and =
youth
through other avenues such as community based strategies and programs =
for
teen offenders.=A0 There was a strong feeling of hope in these =
conversations
about efforts to reach young people with violence prevention messages.
=A0
Common to all 8 weeks of discussion was the importance of building
relationships across silos and of developing greater trust where past
interactions have eroded it and set up barriers to collaboration.=A0
Discussion participants made it clear that to successfully engage men in
ending violence against women, practitioners, community leaders, policy
makers, and others must model respectful partnership.
=A0
Survey results
Of the 97 respondents to the online discussion survey, 64 were women and =
29
men (4 did not declare their gender). Respondents were from 30 different
states in the U.S., 3 Canadian provinces, and 7 countries outside North
America.=A0 Most respondents had some experience working with men and =
found
the discussion series useful. Interestingly, 64 percent of the survey
respondents did not actually post emails to the discussions, but
participated as active listeners, preferring to "monitor the
discussions."=A0=A0=A0=A0=20
=A0
The survey results show that many respondents found the number of email
postings to be too high, and did not post contributions to the =
discussions
due to time constraints.=A0 However, the length of the emails seemed
acceptable (a 600 word limit per email was enforced by the =
moderators).=A0
Many respondents indicated that they needed more time to absorb all the
information. Suggestions from respondents for possible solutions to the =
time
constraints included extending the length of each discussion and =
organizing
the email postings by theme.=20
=A0
We had hoped that people would visit the BPI website
(http://www.endabuse.org/bpi) to read the longer papers and case studies
related to the discussion series and to use the community page to =
correspond
or network with one another.=A0 However, only 35 percent of respondents =
said
that they consistently read the website materials, while roughly 21 =
percent
of respondents said they did not read any of the papers or cases studies =
on
the website and 44 percent said they read "some." The most commonly =
accessed
pages on the website were the resources page and the page with links to
partner organizations.=A0 Only 16 percent of respondents said they used =
the
website's community page.=A0=A0 These findings imply that the website =
was used
mostly as a reference site, rather than as a networking resource, and =
that
email remains the most commonly used tool for information exchange among
participants.=A0=20
=A0
Respondents overwhelmingly expected to gain information about good =
practices
by participating in the discussion series.=A0 They also hoped to make
connections and share experiences.=A0 Approximately 25 percent of =
respondents
said they did correspond via email with other PEMVnet participants as a
result of the discussion series.=A0 Many posters invited off-list =
discussions
by signing their postings with their name and email.=20
=A0
Overall, the majority of respondents found the discussions useful and a
solid learning experience -even if more general and theoretical rather =
than
specific and practical. Suggestions for next steps for the initiative
included more specific how-to information regarding promising practices =
for
engaging men in ending violence against women. Possible topics for =
future
discussions included:=20
=A0
=95 Reaching men in the business community=20
=95 Working with young men of color=20
=95 The role of the media (positive and negative)=20
=95 Community mobilization for prevention=20
=95 Social marketing messages=A0=20
=95 Sexual assault and rape crisis=20
=95 Reaching traditionally "masculine" groups=20
=95 Addressing DV in immigrant communities and other marginalized =
communities=20
=A0
Next steps
At the current time, next steps for the initiative include a meeting of
national experts to review the findings from the online discussions and =
to
identify future strategies for engaging men in ending violence against
women.=A0 In addition, the Family Violence Prevention Fund is partnering =
with
the Center for Disease Control (CDC) to develop online toolkits that =
would
provide communities with practical, how-to information for engaging men =
in
efforts to end violence against women.=A0 Toolkit topics may include: =
reaching
young men and boys with violence prevention messages, mobilizing =
culturally
diverse communities, and working with non-traditional partners, such as
faith-based organizations or unions.=A0 The CDC Delta sites will serve =
as
pilots for these toolkits.=A0=20
=A0
The archives from the online discussions will remain accessible through =
the
Family Violence Prevention Fund website (http://www.endabuse.org/bpi), =
and
any future plans for other online discussions will be announced on that
website, as well.=A0 At this time, there are no plans for additional
discussions, but self-governing list-servs could be developed to allow
discussion participants to continue to communicate with each other about =
the
challenges and successes of doing this important work.
=A0
We welcome any additional feedback and hope you will stay subscribed to =
the
list so we can communicate with you via email about developments with =
the
next phase of work.
=A0
PEMVnet Moderators,
=A0
Lucy Salcido Carter
James Lang
Pat McGann
David Slone Rider
Dean Peacock
Family Violence Prevention Fund
From pemv-net@communityforum.net Wed Dec 17 01:15:01 2003
From: pemv-net@communityforum.net (pemv-net@communityforum.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:15:01 -0800
Subject: [Pemv-net] Online toolkit for working with men on violence prevention coming in 2004! (from the Moderators)
Message-ID: <002001c3c43b$326525b0$0a00a8c0@jimmy88>
Dear PEMVnet participants,
Thank you once again for your participation in the Building Partnerships
Initiative to End Men=92s Violence (BPI) online discussion series held =
earlier
this year.=A0 Your participation helped make the discussions a great =
success.
ONLINE TOOL KIT COMING IN 2004
We are very excited to announce the next phase for this project, and to
invite you to stay involved with the BPI.=A0 In partnership with the =
Center
for Disease Control (CDC), we are now developing an online toolkit =
targeting
those beginning to, or just thinking about, working with men and boys as
part of violence prevention efforts.=A0 =A0More information about the =
tool kit,
project schedule and how to register will be sent to you in early =
2004.=A0=20
The online tool kit will be found on our existing website
www.endabuse.org/bpi.=A0 It will cover topics of working with youth and =
in
schools and expanding partnerships with the private sector, faith-based
organizations, unions and other potential allies=A0 - reflecting the =
training
and technical assistance articulated by many PEMVnet participants.
SEND US LINKS TO YOUR TRAINING MATERIALS=20
As a combination of web pages, a data base and bulletin boards, the tool =
kit
will be a clearing house of existing training materials and background
resources, as well as a space where practitioners new to this arena can
directly correspond with others in the field.=20
To help us ensure that we are connected to the best resources, we would =
be
grateful if you could let us know if there are existing training =
materials
for working with men and boys that you believe should be linked to our
site.=A0 Please send any suggestions directly to =
bpi-moderator@endabuse.org
=A0
Otherwise please stay subscribed to this email list so that we can =
continue
to communicate with you concerning this exciting next phase of work.
Warm regards and all the best for the New Year, =A0
The Family Violence Prevention Fund=20
=A0
=A0
=A0