From rickb@mr.net Mon Oct 22 01:47:35 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listadmins@communityforum.net Received: from conn.mc.mpls.visi.com (conn.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.2]) by mapnp.mnforum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE7B6C801 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:47:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from RickLaptop (rickbirmingham.dsl.visi.com [208.42.95.12]) by conn.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1326F812C; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:47:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Rick Birmingham" To: "Barry Hotmail Madore" , "Linda Wong" , "Sheldon Mains" , "Sue Ellen Ponsford" Cc: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:45:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Listadmins] FW: [Mailman-Announce] [RELEASED] Mailman 2.1 alpha 3 Sender: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net Errors-To: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net X-BeenThere: listadmins@communityforum.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: This list is for the administrators of lists at MAP for Nonprofits and through E-Democracy. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: We are not ready to add this to ours yet, but here is what is coming for mailman. Rick -----Original Message----- From: mailman-announce-admin@python.org [mailto:mailman-announce-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Barry A. Warsaw Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:18 AM To: mailman-developers@python.org Cc: mailman-i18n@python.org Subject: [Mailman-Announce] [RELEASED] Mailman 2.1 alpha 3 I've finally decided to put a fork in it and release the third, and hopefully last alpha in the Mailman 2.1 series. If you want to see a description of all the new stuff, please see http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=58074 There's quite a lot there! Everything should be up on SourceForge now, with updates to www.list.org hopefully tomorrow some time. See also http://mailman.sf.net/MM21/ for updated pages about Mailman 2.1. Note that you no longer need to install the mimelib package. This has been replaced by the email package, which comes with Python 2.2b1, or for Python 2.1.1 or 2.0.1, you'll need to install email-0.93 which is available in the misc/ directory. See the INSTALL file for details. Below is an excerpt from the NEWS file for all the changes since 2.1 alpha 2. I'm hoping that this will be the last alpha release. That means there's one more release in which we have an opportunity for new features, so I suggest that you grab 2.1a3 and give it a good workout (in a non-production environment ). If there are glaring things missing, as always, let me know. Please, all discussion about 2.1 alpha should be conducted on the mailman-developers@python.org mailing list. I will be creating some test lists on python.org an you'll be able to subscribe to them to try things out. I'd like to have a short cycle for alpha3->beta1, with bug fixes only once beta1 comes out. Language translators: I've updated the langpack on SourceForge with the latest catalogs and templates. I've also uploaded the latest README-I18N.en file if you'd like to contribute new languages. If you've been holding off contributing new language files, please consider finishing them off so that I can integrate them in time for beta1. Enjoy, -Barry -------------------- snip snip -------------------- 2.1 alpha 3 (22-Oct-2001) - Realname support o Mailman now tracks a member's Real Name in addition to their email address. o List members can now supply their Real Names when subscribing via the web. Their Real Names are parsed from any thru-email subscriptions. o Members can change their Real Names on their options page, and admins can change members' Real Names on the membership pages. Mass subscribing accepts "email@dom.ain (Real Name)" entries, for both in-text-box and file-upload mass subscriptions. - Filtering and Privacy o Reply-To: munging has been enhanced to allow a wider range of list policies. You can now pre-strip any Reply-To: headers before adding list-specific ones (i.e. you can override or extend existing Reply-To: headers). If stripping, the old headers are no longer saved on X-Reply-To: o New sender moderation rules. The old `posters', `member_only_posting', `moderated' and `forbidden_posters' options have been removed in favor of a new moderation scheme. Each member has a personal moderation bit, and non-member postings can be automatically accepted, held for approval, rejected (bounced) or discarded. o When membership rosters are private, responses to subscription (and other) requests are made more generic so that these processes can't be covertly mined for hidden addresses. If a subscription request comes in for a user who is already subscribed, the user is notified of potential membership mining. o When a held message is approved via the admindb page, an X-Moderated: header is added to the message. o List admins can now set an unsubscribe policy which requires them to approve of member unsubscriptions. - Web U/I o All web confirmations now require a two-click procedure, where the first click gives them a page that allows them to confirm or cancel their subscription. It is bad form for an email click (HTTP GET) to have side effects. o Lots of improvements for clarity. o The Privacy category has grown three subcategories. o The General options page as a number of subsection headers. o The Passwords and Languages categories are now on separate admin pages. o The admin subcategories are now formated as two columns in the top and bottom legends. o When creating a list through the web, you can now specify the initial list of supported languages. o The U/I for unsubscribing a member on the admin's membership page should be more intuitive now. o There is now a separate configuration option for whether the goodbye_msg is sent when a member is unsubscribed. - Performance o misc/mailman is a Unix init script, appropriate for /etc/init.d, and containing chkconfig hooks for systems that support it. o bin/mailmanctl has been rewritten; the `restart' command actually works now. It now also accepts -s, -q, and -u options. o bin/qrunner has been rewritten too; it can serve the role of the old cron/qrunner script for those who want classic cron-invoked mail delivery. o Internally, messages are now stored in the qfiles directory primarily as pickles. List configuration databases are now stored as pickles too (i.e. config.pck). bin/dumpdb knows how to display both pickles and marshals. - Mail delivery o If a user's message is held for approval, they are sent a notification message containing a confirmation cookie. They can use this confirmation cookie to cancel their own postings (if they haven't already been approved). o When held messages are forwarded to an explicit address using the admindb page, it is done so in a message/rfc822 encapsulation. o When a message is first held for approval, the notification sent to the list admin is a 3-part multipart/mixed. The first part holds the notification message, the second part hold the original message, and the third part hold a cookie confirmation message, to which the admin can respond to approve or discard the message via email. o In the mail->news gateway, you can define mail headers that must be modified or deleted before the message can be posted to the nntp server. o The list admin can send an immediate urgent message to the entire list membership, bypassing digest delivery. This is done by adding an Urgent: header with the list password. Urgent messages with an invalid password are rejected. o Lists can now optionally personalize email messages, if the site admin allows it. Personalized messages mean that the To: header includes the recipient's address instead of the list's address, and header and footer messages can contain user-specific information. Note that only regular deliveries can currently be personalized. o Message that come from Usenet but that have broken MIME boundaries are ignored. o If the site administrator agrees, list owners have the ability to disable RFC 2369 List-* headers. - Building/testing/configuration o mimelib is no longer required, but you must install the email package (see the tarball in the misc directory). o An (as yet) incomplete test suite has been added. Don't try running it in a production environment! o Better virtual host support by adding a mapping from the host name given in cgi's HTTP_HOST/SERVER_NAME variable to the email host used in list addresses. (E.g. www.python.org maps to @python.org). o Specifying urls to external public archivers is more flexible. o The filters/ subdirectory has been removed. o There is now a `site list' which is a mailing list that must be created first, and from which all password reminders appear to come from. It is recommended that this list be called "mailman@your.site". o bin/move_list is no longer necessary (see the FAQ for detailed instructions on renaming a list). o A new script bin/fix_url.py can be used with bin/withlist to change a list's web_page_url configuration variable (since it is no longer modifiable through the web). - Internationalization o Support for German, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, and Norwegian have been added. - Miscellaneous o Lots of new bounce detectors. Bounce detectors can now discard temporary bounce messages by returning a special Stop value. o bin/withlist now sports a -q/--quiet flag. o bin/add_members has a new -a/--admin-notify flag which can be used to inhibit list owner notification for each subscription. - Membership Adaptors o Internally, mailing list memberships are accessed through a MemberAdaptor interface. This would allow for integrating membership databases with external sources (e.g. Zope or LDAP), although the only MemberAdaptor currently implemented is a "classic" adaptor which stores the membership information on the MailList object. o There's a new pipeline handler module called FileRecips.py which could be used to get all regular delivery mailing list recipients from a Sendmail-style :include: file (see List Extensibility bullet below). This work was sponsored by Control.com - List Extensibility o A framework has been added which can be used to specialize and extend specific mailing lists. If there is a file called lists//extend.py, it is execfile()'d after the MailList object is instantiated. The file should contain a function extend() which will be called with the MailList instance. This function can do all sorts of deep things, like modify the handler pipeline just for this list, or even strip out particular admin GUI elements (see below). o All the admin page GUI elements are now separate components. This provides greater flexibility for list customization. Also, each GUI element will be given an opportunity to handle admin CGI form data. This work was sponsored by Control.com - Topic Filters o A new feature has been added called "Topic Filters". A list administrator can create topics, which are essentially regular expression matches against Subject: and Keyword: headers (including such pseudo-headers if they appear in the first few lines of the body of a message). List members can then `subscribe' to various topics, which allows them to filter out any messages that don't match a topic, or to filter out any message that does match a topic. This can be useful for high volume lists where not everyone will be interested in every message. This work was sponsored by Control.com _______________________________________________ Mailman-announce mailing list Mailman-announce@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce From fholson@cohousing.org Thu Dec 20 16:47:11 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listadmins@communityforum.net Received: from freedom.mtn.org (freedom.mtn.org [209.173.220.58]) by mapnp.mnforum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B651B6C805 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:47:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (fholson@localhost) by freedom.mtn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04195; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:56:43 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: freedom.mtn.org: fholson owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:56:43 -0600 (CST) From: Fred H Olson X-Sender: fholson@freedom.mtn.org To: List manager list , David Brauer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Listadmins] HTML on Mpls-issues list Sender: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net Errors-To: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net X-BeenThere: listadmins@communityforum.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: This list is for the administrators of lists at MAP for Nonprofits and through E-Democracy. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi David Mpls-issues , I just browsed the last month or so of messages of Mpls-issues and noticed your request to not post html - which does indeed not archive well much of the time. Just thought I'd apprise you of my experiment with this... In early October of 2001 I configured mailman to reject messages with html attachments. I get notified that there is a message with a "suspicious header" and have to "tend" it like postings from non-subscribed addresses. What I have been doing so far is discard the message AND send a copy to myself (owner - just a mouse click). Then I add the canned preamble and edit the preamble a bit to include the orig poster's name and address: (I'm thinking of starting to add the posters last name to the subject line when I forward a message to the list. This would allow our subject line serach engine to find messages they wrote...) Joe Blow is the author of the message below. It was posted by Fred the Cohousing-L list manager because the message included HTML ; PLEASE do not post HTML, see http://csf.colorado.edu/cohousing/2001/msg01672.html -------------------- FORWARDED MESSAGE FOLLOWS -------------------- and post it. Results so far: HTML TTL Oct: 10 235 Nov: 4 187 Dec: 6 142 It has not been too bad, certainly some / most people have learned and reconfigured their mailers. I think a few people have posted HTL repeatedly tho I have not bothered to check systematically yet. I think a perso or two have lapsed (somehow gotten THML posted after having "fixed" the problem. I have one poster who has "vcard" attachements that are getting rejected along with the HTML. This is yet to dealt with other than posting with a modified / apologetic preamble. There is software to strip html - I have not pursued it. Please email me if you want details. The new Nbhd-tc (Nbhd-L) running on listserv at tc.umn.edu looks like it might handle attachments well enough that I may allow them. I dont have enough experience there yet. Fred Cohousing-L Info Page : http://www.communityforum.net/mailman/listinfo/cohousing-L -- Fred H. Olson Minneapolis,MN 55411 (near north Mpls) fholson@cohousing.org 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm Cent time) List manager of Cohousing-L & Nbhd-tc Ham radio:WB0YQM More info: http://www.mtn.org/~fholson/sig-detail.htm From fholson@cohousing.org Tue Jan 29 09:49:30 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listadmins@communityforum.net Received: from freedom.mtn.org (freedom.mtn.org [209.173.220.58]) by mapnp.mnforum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74E36C80F for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:49:30 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (fholson@localhost) by freedom.mtn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30296; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:31:38 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: freedom.mtn.org: fholson owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:31:38 -0600 (CST) From: Fred H Olson X-Sender: fholson@freedom.mtn.org To: List manager list , Rick Birmingham Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Listadmins] Mailman 2.1 Sender: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net Errors-To: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net X-BeenThere: listadmins@communityforum.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: This list is for the administrators of lists at MAP for Nonprofits and through E-Democracy. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi again Rick, I happened to be at the Mailman web page the other day looking at the features MM 2.1 will have. I look forward to the changes. I dont recall when they expected a final MM 2.1 release but I think it is coming up in a few months (?). I was wondering if the installation process of it at CFN ** might include the installation of the Mhonarc archiving package as an alternative to Pipermail and the HtDig search package? The Mailman web site acknowledges that the Mhonarc archiving package (also open source) is better than Pipermail at present (but does not explain why it is not simply used instead of developing Pipermail at all.) See: MHonArc - A Perl mail-to-HTML program with MIME support and many customizable features. Successor to mail2html. http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.doc.html HtDig is open source and pretty good tho it takes more hard disk (and less cpu time) than Glimpse which is not as good generally in my experience. see: ht://Dig - indexing and searching system for a small domain or intranet. http://www.htdig.org/ I dont have expertise installing software (tho I'd be interested in learning or helping). ** (I can't type communityforum.net very easily so I hereby declare that I will use CFN in appropriate contexts unless you have a better abbrev.) Fred -- 1/29/02 The "Crooked" E: How true it is! (Enron T - shirt) More info: http://www.mtn.org/~fholson/sig-detail.htm Fred H. Olson Minneapolis,MN 55411 (near north Mpls) fholson@cohousing.org 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm Cent time) List manager of Cohousing-L & Nbhd-tc Ham radio:WB0YQM From fholson@cohousing.org Mon Apr 1 07:30:09 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listadmins@communityforum.net Received: from freedom.mtn.org (freedom.mtn.org [209.173.220.58]) by mapnp.mnforum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159EA6C80A for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:30:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (fholson@localhost) by freedom.mtn.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15497 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:30:55 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: freedom.mtn.org: fholson owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:30:55 -0600 (CST) From: Fred H Olson X-Sender: fholson@freedom.mtn.org To: List manager list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Listadmins] Archiving subscriber lists Sender: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net Errors-To: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net X-BeenThere: listadmins@communityforum.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: This list is for the administrators of lists at MAP for Nonprofits and through E-Democracy. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I archive the list of subscribers to lists I manage periodically - monthly for my main lists. (Over the years, I have used an archived subscriber list to restore / move a list. The subscriber list is the key entity in a lists existence.) So far I have been doing this at communityforum.net by using the form at the bottom of the list's Info Page to get the subscriber list and saving that. (I have this feature restricted to the list owner.) The resulting file indicates regular mode, digest and nomail subscribers which is the basics in a fairly compact format. It does not show hidden subs so I disallow those (irrelevant anyway due to subs listing restriction). It's a bit of a pain to find and reset subs that have gotten set... Does anyone have a better system for archiving subs on Mailman? BTW, anyone heard when Mailman version 2.1 will be available? Fred, cohousing-L list manager -- 1/29/02 The "Crooked" E: How true it is! (Enron T - shirt) More info: http://www.mtn.org/~fholson/sig-detail.htm Fred H. Olson Minneapolis,MN 55411 (near north Mpls) fholson@cohousing.org 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm Cent time) List manager of Cohousing-L & Nbhd-tc Ham radio:WB0YQM From fholson@tcfreenet.org Fri Apr 19 09:52:11 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listadmins@communityforum.net Received: from tcfreenet.org (tcfreenet.org [209.98.210.137]) by mapnp.mnforum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358FF6C80D for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:52:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from tcfreenet.org (tcfreenet.org [209.98.210.137]) by tcfreenet.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g3JF1Xt37674; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:01:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from fholson@tcfreenet.org) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:01:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Fred H Olson To: Cc: Rick Birmingham Message-ID: <20020419093833.B35347-100000@tcfreenet.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Listadmins] Problems with Subscribed addresses Sender: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net Errors-To: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net X-BeenThere: listadmins@communityforum.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: This list is for the administrators of lists at MAP for Nonprofits and through E-Democracy. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have Two puzzling Problems with Subscribed addresses 1) I have been getting bounce messages in my mailbox related to a digest subscription to cohousing-L ( @communityforum.net tho we use a virtual domain so it's known as cohousing-l@cohousing.org ) The problem is that the bouncing address is not subscribed. I suspect that there is a subscribed address that forwards to the bouncing address. I have not been able to tell from the bounce message or it's header what the subscrided address is. (tho I get confused by all the header lines...) Anyone have suggestions for tracking down the subscribed address? I've thought about sending a test message to all (about 250) digest subs to check that I get a bounce message and then send a test message to half of them ... (a binary search) till I track it down. Anyone have a better idea? Is there a way to "ping" and address rather than send a test message and thus less intrusive of all the legit digest subscribers and maybe quicker. (It will take about 8 test messages (2 to the 8th power =256) tho not all digest subscribers get all test messages.. 2) I just got a hard bounce from a message I sent direct to a friend whose regular mode sub to cohousing-L appears to be fine. Maybe the problem just developed but it seems odd. I think the address I have for him is an alias that he has had problems with in the past. In general **, I think I've had fewer subs disabled by mailman in the year cohousing-L has been at communityforum.net than I had when I basically handled problem addresses manually when it was hosted on a Listproc server. Is there anyway to examing the mailman bounce handling in more detail? ** I have not tried to compile any numbers but I could dig out that information from my email archives. Fred -- TEMP ADDRESS 4/9/02 My "From:" address has temporarily changed; My preferred address IS NOW and continues to be as below. Fred H. Olson fholson@cohousing.org Minneapolis,MN 55411 (612)588-9532 Amateur radio: WB0YQM List manager of: Cohousing-L and Nbhd-tc (Twin Cities Neighborhood issues list) From tigerpop@cohousing.org Fri Apr 19 10:41:12 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listadmins@communityforum.net Received: from mail1.tigertech.net (mail1.tigertech.net [64.71.157.135]) by mapnp.mnforum.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB286C80A for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:41:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mail1.tigertech.net (Postfix, from userid 1538) id 46F9C3FC1F8; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:41:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fred H. Olson" To: listadmins@communityforum.net Subject: Re: [Listadmins] Problems with Subscribed addresses Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:41:12 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20020419154112.46F9C3FC1F8@mail1.tigertech.net> Sender: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net Errors-To: listadmins-admin@communityforum.net X-BeenThere: listadmins@communityforum.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: This list is for the administrators of lists at MAP for Nonprofits and through E-Democracy. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > 2) I just got a hard bounce from a message I sent direct to a friend > whose regular mode sub to cohousing-L appears to be fine. Maybe the > problem just developed but it seems odd. I think the address I have for > him is an alias that he has had problems with in the past. Ooops, I was confused. I'd gotten the old alias from an old addressbook. His real address (with same username) is subscribed to cohousing-L. I did not notice the difference in the addresses. Fred